urbanSTL

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

Aug 14, 2025

Being a state capital (or in the same metro in this case) with the flagship state university (55,000 enrollment) always helps.

Yeah this helpful. Wish MOLeg never left St. Chuck.

Flagship Uni is nice but we have UMSL. UMSL could be a great university (at least on par with UMKC or better) but donors in this community would rather give all their money to a university that has more money than it could ever possibly need (by 3-4 times).

Same goes for Harris Stowe.

But that’s St. Louis’ billionaire class - singularly concerned with getting their photo on the wall at the bogey club

^^ DB that is a great table. I don't see any costal cities (or TX) on there, is the pool of MSAs limited in some way, or are those MSAs weighed down by larger low income areas.  We used something similar when trying to attract larger investors from outside the region. The combination of high incomes AND low cost of living shows the untapped potential for the St. Louis market.

^ Difference is University of Minnesota - Twin Cities is the flagship campus and adjacent to downtown (just across a much narrower Mississippi River) and has about 3 times the enrollment of SLU or UMSL (or 50% larger than Mizzou).  So the impact would be roughly doubling the area of SLU's main campus in a similar location with 3x the number of students, faculty and support personnel.

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

Aug 15, 2025

^^ DB that is a great table. I don't see any costal cities (or TX) on there, is the pool of MSAs limited in some way, or are those MSAs weighed down by larger low income areas.  We used something similar when trying to attract larger investors from outside the region. The combination of high incomes AND low cost of living shows the untapped potential for the St. Louis market.

^ Difference is University of Minnesota - Twin Cities is the flagship campus and adjacent to downtown (just across a much narrower Mississippi River) and has about 3 times the enrollment of SLU or UMSL (or 50% larger than Mizzou).  So the impact would be roughly doubling the area of SLU's main campus in a similar location with 3x the number of students, faculty and support personnel.

There is also the MIAC conference which has approximately 25k or so students enrolled.  Approximately 2/3 of which are located in the Twin Cities metro.  Myriad of other universities and community colleges outside of U of M and MIAC.   

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

Aug 15, 2025

^^ DB that is a great table. I don't see any costal cities (or TX) on there, is the pool of MSAs limited in some way, or are those MSAs weighed down by larger low income areas.  We used something similar when trying to attract larger investors from outside the region. The combination of high incomes AND low cost of living shows the untapped potential for the St. Louis market.

^ Difference is University of Minnesota - Twin Cities is the flagship campus and adjacent to downtown (just across a much narrower Mississippi River) and has about 3 times the enrollment of SLU or UMSL (or 50% larger than Mizzou).  So the impact would be roughly doubling the area of SLU's main campus in a similar location with 3x the number of students, faculty and support personnel.

I just pooled regional “Midwest” MSAs. Kinda wild that we were neck and neck with kc and since Covid we just blew past them

I don’t know this but the income being driven up is likely due to the migration into the MSA has been largely middle class to upper middle class into St. Charles County. What used to be smaller middle class to middle class exurbs have became pretty large wealthier exurbs. Those towns in St. Charles County think they are uniquely attractive too, but really this was just a demographic trend since around 2010 - cheaper farmland in areas around 45 minutes away from an economic city center developed into middle class subdivisions. Population loss coming from north county, north city and deep south city/south county line. All that meaning that I’m not sure how much better off the metro is unless we leverage a much improved downtown/city core to attract these ballooning discretionary spenders to these most economically and culturally important areas in the metro

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Aug 17, 2025

I don’t know this but the income being driven up is likely due to the migration into the MSA has been largely middle class to upper middle class into St. Charles County. What used to be smaller middle class to middle class exurbs have became pretty large wealthier exurbs. Those towns in St. Charles County think they are uniquely attractive too, but really this was just a demographic trend since around 2010 - cheaper farmland in areas around 45 minutes away from an economic city center developed into middle class subdivisions. Population loss coming from north county, north city and deep south city/south county line. All that meaning that I’m not sure how much better off the metro is unless we leverage a much improved downtown/city core to attract these ballooning discretionary spenders to these most economically and culturally important areas in the metro

You ain’t got a guess, I also did it by county regionally

And the guess was wrong

Also I have IRS data that shows STL city is losing filers with $50,000 and less and gaining filers with $50,000+ and a lot of gains in the $200,000+

Holy moly, St. Louis County has gotten that high? Monroe County is the most surprising here. Where is all that money?

both Minneapolis and st.paul have a office vacancy rate in the mid 30s

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/ ... wn-uptown/

Minneapolis to spend $750,000 to cover 2 years of rent to fill 8 storefronts in and around downtown.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Aug 19, 2025

both Minneapolis and st.paul have a office vacancy rate in the mid 30s

Minneapolis / Saint Paul metro GDP 1.5X St Louis GDP

While I like the idea here, there is almost no chance that these arts organizations stay in these very prominent storefronts longterm. Uptown has been down lately, but the rent is still far from cheap.

I would love for STL to do something similar here, but actually take ownership of the buildings. Real estate is much cheaper here AND we still have a lot of Rams money kicking around. I would love for STL to purchase or even build some buildings on important retail corridors, subdivide them into small spaces <1000sf and lease them out affordably to cool microbusinesses. 

^Hell yeah, more public ownership ftw

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Sep 12, 2025

While I like the idea here, there is almost no chance that these arts organizations stay in these very prominent storefronts longterm. Uptown has been down lately, but the rent is still far from cheap.

I would love for STL to do something similar here, but actually take ownership of the buildings. Real estate is much cheaper here AND we still have a lot of Rams money kicking around. I would love for STL to purchase or even build some buildings on important retail corridors, subdivide them into small spaces <1000sf and lease them out affordably to cool microbusinesses. 

I don't know about public ownership of buildings, but I like that we are expanding the downtown grant program.

I think covering 2 years of rent is just a bad idea. I'd rather remove or lower the risk of a business to enter downtown by offering grant money. Then if they succeed, they'll stay and if they fail, they close.

I would like to see the city shut down the office building on Market and lease space in one of the struggling office buildings. San Francisco just did this in an effort to boost downtown.

When I hear leaders in cities like Salt Lake, Minneapolis, and Portland brag that they’re different and know how to get things done, I think they mostly are just seeking to maintain current demographics.

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Sep 12, 2025

When I hear leaders in cities like Salt Lake, Minneapolis, and Portland brag that they’re different and know how to get things done, I think they mostly are just seeking to maintain current demographics.

The only 2 major cities with mayors that are doing genuine good for their cities are SF's new mayor and Boston's incumbent.

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Sep 12, 2025

When I hear leaders in cities like Salt Lake, Minneapolis, and Portland brag that they’re different and know how to get things done, I think they mostly are just seeking to maintain current demographics.

What do you mean by maintaining current demographics?

It just struck me that towns with little diversity and hence fewer issues involving inclusion, poverty, and dangerous place publicity, etc., are often held up as getting it right -- as models of what great American cities should be.  I'm not sure their success is due to their actions and having really good people as much as they believe.  Towns with challenges also have really good people who don't move to Denver or Portland.

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Sep 13, 2025

It just struck me that towns with little diversity and hence fewer issues involving inclusion, poverty, and dangerous place publicity, etc., are often held up as getting it right -- as models of what great American cities should be.  I'm not sure their success is due to their actions and having really good people as much as they believe.  Towns with challenges also have really good people who don't move to Denver or Portland.

Minneapolis definitely has crime and issues, I don't know enough about Portland, but their built environmentis far superior to ours. Downtown is stellar. Salt Lake City benefits from having a state government that isn't completely insane, but it's true that it's probably because the city is very white.

From New York Times:
"Federal prosecutors say that 59 people have been convicted in those schemes so far, and that more than $1 billion in taxpayers’ money has been stolen"
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/29/us/f ... omali.html

With Minnesota's Scandinavian roots, this is all very similar to how the Scandinavian countries highly functional welfare system was eventually destroyed over time.