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PostMar 21, 2025#5451

dweebe wrote:
Mar 19, 2025
The Cleveland Browns upping their push to move to the suburbs.
https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl ... c5df5345ec

Apparently this is very very much not a "done deal". So I was totally wrong.

They want $600M in public money lol. Good on the County for not just giving in.

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PostMar 21, 2025#5452

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:
Mar 14, 2025
Poach them. Bengals least valuable team in NFL. Send them west on down the Ohio.
The Bengals value is right there with the Lions, Cardinals, Saints, Bills... just like these cities... the Bengals aren't going anywhere.

My buddy put down a deposit for season tickets 3 years ago, we think he might finally be able to purchase this next season. The Brown family would never relocate the team.

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PostMar 21, 2025#5453

Rule #1:

Never trust an NFL owner.

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PostMar 22, 2025#5454

framer wrote:
Mar 21, 2025
Rule #1:

Never trust an NFL owner.
I hear you. I have a buddy who lived in STL and when they announced the Rams moving, I personally felt for the city. 

PostMar 22, 2025#5455

symphonicpoet wrote:
Mar 14, 2025
^I don't know what it's like inside, but holy cow is that an ugly looking exterior.
Yeah it's terrible ... horrendous, actually. Believe it or not, but yes ... there are still events and concerts booked there. It is a great location.

Cincy is building a new arena and is trying to decide if they want to build on its current site or south of TQL Stadium (the study is happening now), thankfully. On one hand, do we continue to expand the Banks and park along the river (they're also building another marina) and build south of TQL or keep its current location, within walking distance of the riverfront park and Banks entertainment district. Tough decision and I think most people are split on this.

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PostMar 23, 2025#5456

^Hey, even if it looks ugly you can still rock down the house. I worked more shows at the Hearnes Center than I can even remember, and I have oddly fond memories of it, even given how thoroughly awkward and stultifyingly boxy it is. It's ugly, but it was our ugly. Sorry. I should know better than to rag on somebody else's house. You can have a ton of fun there. Might even be worth missing it. (I think tearing down the Fine Arts Annex in CoMO was the right call, but I will forever have fond memories of the place. The very ugly place, that has been replaced with something better.)

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PostMar 26, 2025#5457

Anybody know how much it would cost to clean the exterior of the Dome? It’s, um, kind of dirty.

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PostApr 02, 2025#5458

I found this to be somewhat interesting.  Noticed that two former STL teams were in the top ten:  

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/10 ... 1#image=11

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PostApr 02, 2025#5459

Coincidence that only 3 of them (Atlanta, Charlotte, and Houston) have a rail transit connection?

I'll be honest, if I lived in a city as hellish as Pheonix or Los Angeles and I had to drive to all the sports events, i wouldn't be attending very often either.

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PostApr 02, 2025#5460

^ Getting off topic, but have to look to see if BART's San Jose extension gets close enough  to Levi Stadium to make it a viable fan for 49er fans.   Would be a big plus for East Bay.   

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PostApr 03, 2025#5461

cincinnatus wrote:
Mar 21, 2025
delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:
Mar 14, 2025
Poach them. Bengals least valuable team in NFL. Send them west on down the Ohio.
The Bengals value is right there with the Lions, Cardinals, Saints, Bills... just like these cities... the Bengals aren't going anywhere.

My buddy put down a deposit for season tickets 3 years ago, we think he might finally be able to purchase this next season. The Brown family would never relocate the team.
They aren't going anywhere, but they're throwing out new threats.

Bengals hint at possibility of relocation — as soon as 2026
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... on-as-2026

PostApr 07, 2025#5462

I wonder if Kevin and Stan shared a good cry over this one?



I still think it's funny their HQ will be 30+ miles and a 60ish minute drive from their stadium.

PostApr 07, 2025#5463

I'm starting to think St. Louis has transitioned down on it's level of Kroenke hatred. Blues/Avalanche games are always good for a "Kroenke sucks!" chant and unless I missed it, one never got going Saturday night.

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PostApr 08, 2025#5464

The spite was fun during the first couple seasons, starting last season it started to grate on me a bit. Feels icky now. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Hoping the Battlehawks can sustain themselves on more than spite moving forward.

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PostApr 28, 2025#5465

The Washington Commanders are going to try and go back the RFK stadium site actually in DC instead of the horrible location they currently have. That or other suburban options previously talked about.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... s/3900481/

Nice to see the hype video touts public transport as a key feature. 

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PostApr 28, 2025#5466

Rather than replace our dome, why don't we take advantage of the heavy grid solid ceiling and new technology and turn it into a next-gen stadium like doesn't exist now?  When I see photos of the interior of the new Las Vegas football stadium, It looks a lot like our dome, except that the Vegas stadium ceiling always resembles a Severance-like drop ceiling.  And an end window?, or is it an LED screen?  Either way, It looks like a big LED screen.  We could add a giant one and turn it to the Arch channel to watch.  Or Andromeda.  Or Las Vegas I suppose.  Probably cheaper than a window.  And better.

And instead of just rectangular ceiling windows viewing the winter sky, we could put LED lighting behind translucent panels for the same effect.  This hobbyist did a ceiling like this in his home.
https://youtu.be/rG3rOdFUcTg?si=uz6OrWNITmVgms5S

But better yet, make our grid ceiling one of the world's largest LED screens -- not unlike Fremont Street in Vegas, or Sphere flattened against the ceiling.  No weather-proofing needed -- it would be all indoors.

IMG_2843.jpeg (180.17KiB)
Vegas Stadium
B7ARX6DHHFCLXPT2LBXSQYZILM.jpeg (963.34KiB)
Dome at America's Center
Fremont-Street-Experience2.jpg (276.46KiB)
Vegas Fremont Street

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PostJun 09, 2025#5467

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... money.html

St. Louis County Executive Sam Page wants to use $3 million in Rams money to improve the County's animal shelter.



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PostJun 09, 2025#5468

gary kreie wrote:Rather than replace our dome, why don't we take advantage of the heavy grid solid ceiling and new technology and turn it into a next-gen stadium like doesn't exist now?  When I see photos of the interior of the new Las Vegas football stadium, It looks a lot like our dome, except that the Vegas stadium ceiling always resembles a Severance-like drop ceiling.  And an end window?, or is it an LED screen?  Either way, It looks like a big LED screen.  We could add a giant one and turn it to the Arch channel to watch.  Or Andromeda.  Or Las Vegas I suppose.  Probably cheaper than a window.  And better.

And instead of just rectangular ceiling windows viewing the winter sky, we could put LED lighting behind translucent panels for the same effect.  This hobbyist did a ceiling like this in his home.
https://youtu.be/rG3rOdFUcTg?si=uz6OrWNITmVgms5S

But better yet, make our grid ceiling one of the world's largest LED screens -- not unlike Fremont Street in Vegas, or Sphere flattened against the ceiling.  No weather-proofing needed -- it would be all indoors.

IMG_2843.jpegB7ARX6DHHFCLXPT2LBXSQYZILM.jpeg
I agree with this. Keep the Dome but go funkier! Make it a multi-purpose event space and make it a standalone attraction.

I wonder if a private, non-sports, entertainment company proposed a $500M renovation if it would qualify for the new venue funding by MO.

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PostJun 10, 2025#5469

Even a projection light show in the dome could be awesome.  Unlike most domes being built today, ours can drive the light all the way to black, even in daylight.  

Union Station projected light show:
https://youtube.com/shorts/ONRgZuKjgLo?si=zwnh-tyvgV3CCCWU

Make the dome grid ceiling LED programmable with flat screens, like a giant version of the Energizer Stadium Ultra Club ceiling:  
IMG_3261.mov (18.42 MiB)   0

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PostJun 11, 2025#5470

I’ve put some thought to the Rams settlement and tornado rebuilding. Especially now that state and FEMA are coming through in a big way.

Here is my brainstorming for those who need something to read…

Create a new designation, Emergency Community Improvement District (ECID). No sales or property tax. Geographically it would look similar to Opportunity Zone designation.

City puts in $200M from settlement. State and private sector matches 1:1. $400M fund in total. This does not include any of the recovery funding.

ECID is controlled by a governing body of 50 representatives. Mayor and Board nominate 100 potential members, governors office chooses the final 50 to a three year term. The large governing body is intentional. 75% must live or have a registered business within ECID. 100% must reside in the city.

ECID Commission is supported by real estate advisors. These advisors, with direction by ECID Commission, identify redevelopment opportunities (think 1-3 city blocks each) and release an RFP for private investment based on community desired uses. Current residents within specific redevelopment area receive lifetime property tax freeze. It would require developers preserve any vacant but salvageable building. No tax abatement can be given to the developer.

This is where it gets interesting. The ECID is not allowed to actually spend any of the original funding. Instead, they are authorized to commit some or all of the fund as collateral to guarantee the winning developer a loan. The ECID also guarantees the developer via a buy back. For example, whatever does not sell within two years will be bought by the commission at build cost. Once the development is sold/leased/rented, the agreement is voided, and the ECID is free to release another RFP with funds.

The ECID does have the ability to allocate interest earned on the fund to infrastructure projects within the district.

So here is the result.
- Community driven design that happens FAST.
- $400M has the opportunity to guarantee $2-$3B in private redevelopment in North St. Louis over 10 years.
- Since no tax abatement is given, property tax revenues start growing immediately.
- Residents are shielded from the property tax growth from improved market conditions.
- $100-$200M in infrastructure investment over 10 years from fund revenue.
- At the end of it all, fund is still intact.

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PostJun 11, 2025#5471

lifetime property tax freeze 
good luck 
developers?
I recollect Paul McKee

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PostJun 11, 2025#5472

addxb2 wrote:
Jun 11, 2025
I’ve put some thought to the Rams settlement and tornado rebuilding. Especially now that state and FEMA are coming through in a big way.

Here is my brainstorming for those who need something to read…

Create a new designation, Emergency Community Improvement District (ECID). No sales or property tax. Geographically it would look similar to Opportunity Zone designation.

City puts in $200M from settlement. State and private sector matches 1:1. $400M fund in total. This does not include any of the recovery funding.

ECID is controlled by a governing body of 50 representatives. Mayor and Board nominate 100 potential members, governors office chooses the final 50 to a three year term. The large governing body is intentional. 75% must live or have a registered business within ECID. 100% must reside in the city.

ECID Commission is supported by real estate advisors. These advisors, with direction by ECID Commission, identify redevelopment opportunities (think 1-3 city blocks each) and release an RFP for private investment based on community desired uses. Current residents within specific redevelopment area receive lifetime property tax freeze. It would require developers preserve any vacant but salvageable building. No tax abatement can be given to the developer.

This is where it gets interesting. The ECID is not allowed to actually spend any of the original funding. Instead, they are authorized to commit some or all of the fund as collateral to guarantee the winning developer a loan. The ECID also guarantees the developer via a buy back. For example, whatever does not sell within two years will be bought by the commission at build cost. Once the development is sold/leased/rented, the agreement is voided, and the ECID is free to release another RFP with funds.

The ECID does have the ability to allocate interest earned on the fund to infrastructure projects within the district.

So here is the result.
- Community driven design that happens FAST.
- $400M has the opportunity to guarantee $2-$3B in private redevelopment in North St. Louis over 10 years.
- Since no tax abatement is given, property tax revenues start growing immediately.
- Residents are shielded from the property tax growth from improved market conditions.
- $100-$200M in infrastructure investment over 10 years from fund revenue.
- At the end of it all, fund is still intact.
No sales or property taxes, but the city still somehow collects property tax revenue? Aren't these two directly contradictory?

Your idea is also dead as soon as you say "state and private sector match". Part of the reason the state approved $100M in aid was to guarantee bipartisan support for the $1.5B handout to Kansas City billionaires, something Republicans couldn't pass without Democratic support due to the Freedom Caucus. There's a zero % chance that the same state that refuses to approve a basic capital improvements budget is going to take a keynesian approach to redeveloping North City.

I would also point out that the last 4 years of permit values in North City total $740M  or a $1.85B average across 10 years. Whatever has been happening over the last several years already is almost at the low end of your $2-3B in development across 10 years.

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PostJun 11, 2025#5473

- As in the ECID would not impose any new sales or property taxes as most CIDs do.
- They could be willing to do so with (1) governor final pick of governing body, (2) money is invested not spent, (3) Private sector already committed to match for downtown. I’m sure Greater STL Inc would find the muscle for a bold vision.
- Largely driven by industrial projects on north river front and redevelopments funded by one-time federal funds. The point is that North St. Louis is on track to be legitimately vacant in our lifetime. Nothing about the last few years has moved that. An EF3 tornado didn’t help. A much more aggressive approach is required.

People are leaving North St. Louis even when they don’t want to because there are a lack of quality homes. Homes aren’t being built because the market fundamentals don’t pass investors smell test. The idea aims to remove all risk for developers, gives the community the opportunity to show demand exists and have direct control of redevelopment, and stops tax abatements which make it harder for the city and schools to run.

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PostJun 12, 2025#5474

addxb2 wrote:
Jun 11, 2025
- As in the ECID would not impose any new sales or property taxes as most CIDs do.
- They could be willing to do so with (1) governor final pick of governing body, (2) money is invested not spent, (3) Private sector already committed to match for downtown. I’m sure Greater STL Inc would find the muscle for a bold vision.
- Largely driven by industrial projects on north river front and redevelopments funded by one-time federal funds. The point is that North St. Louis is on track to be legitimately vacant in our lifetime. Nothing about the last few years has moved that. An EF3 tornado didn’t help. A much more aggressive approach is required.

People are leaving North St. Louis even when they don’t want to because there are a lack of quality homes. Homes aren’t being built because the market fundamentals don’t pass investors smell test. The idea aims to remove all risk for developers, gives the community the opportunity to show demand exists and have direct control of redevelopment, and stops tax abatements which make it harder for the city and schools to run.
Oh okay I see, not that there is no sales/property tax, there is no new ones. Gotcha.

I can imagine a scenario where the private sector could come around to supporting some type of plan in North City, though just because they have said they will match downtown investment absolutely does not guarantee anything about North City.

I still don't see the state every coming around to it. Like I said, part of the reason they agreed to such a large tornado relief fund is because they wanted their Chiefs/Royals bill.

I'm also skeptical of what you mean by "invest" as opposed to "spend". To invest in North City would be to spend money on infrastructure projects, housing, and retail development. Do you mean the money put in an account to gain interest and then spend the interest but maintain the base amount?

I guess I just don't really see the need for this "ECID" to do what you're pitching or state support for it. I also am not too worried about SLPS funding as SLPS is pretty well funded as it is and things like the tax incentive reform from a couple of years ago guarantees at least 10% property tax revenue on an abated property. And I'm sure you're well aware that many of these properties do not offer much in terms of property tax as is, the hundreds owned by the city offer none. Even 10% of a redeveloped property would be better than 100% of the existing property.

What is stopping the city from spending tens of millions of the current Rams money on taking away risk from home builders to build (unfortunately) suburban style middle-class homes to rebuild bombed out neighborhoods? Also, as Chris Fuller pointed out, what mechanism would there be to ensure that developers actually follow through on their promises? And what amenities could be built to attract people to North City as opposed to South City or Central Corridor? This is one of the reasons why I think the N-S MetroLink is such an important part of any long-lasting redevelopment of North City.

Your idea is probably not bad, but it just relies on a lot of good faith from groups that have historically been very very bad faith and have actively aided the continued destruction of North City.

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PostJun 23, 2025#5475

Jerks.


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