Yeah I mean the policy is 0/1 in terms successfully warning against a tornado in the city.addxb2 wrote:Saying "the policy existed since 2021" is a bad argument. A well written policy should last well beyond four years or any type of political change. It has multiple built in protections. The policy failing in just it's fourth tornado season isn't a good sign. Also, how do we know the same policy failure hasn't happened since 2021 but didn't end up materializing anything destructive.
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No. It's not. Every other time there has been a tornado warning in the city in the last 4 years, which is only like 3 or 4 times, I have personally heard the sirens with my own ears. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.addxb2 wrote: ↑May 19, 2025Saying "the policy existed since 2021" is a bad argument. A well written policy should last well beyond four years or any type of political change. It has multiple built in protections. The policy failing in just it's fourth tornado season isn't a good sign. Also, how do we know the same policy failure hasn't happened since 2021 but didn't end up materializing anything destructive.
It's not Spencer's fault, and hopefully it doesn't open the city to liability, but it's one of the biggest failures in a long time. An EF3 tornado with no sirens is straight out of a parody. Especially when they were running all day on Thursday. This cannot happen again and someone does need to be fired for it.
Why would this now become a confusing protocol now when it’s the same CEMA commissioner we have had since 2021?
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And the person who developed it, with the fire chief; who is still here.
Explain to me what you think I'm defending? I'm calling the policy bad because it allowed for human failure in just four years. Nothing between the lines.Auggie wrote: ↑May 19, 2025No. It's not. Every other time there has been a tornado warning in the city in the last 4 years, which is only like 3 or 4 times, I have personally heard the sirens with my own ears. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.addxb2 wrote: ↑May 19, 2025Saying "the policy existed since 2021" is a bad argument. A well written policy should last well beyond four years or any type of political change. It has multiple built in protections. The policy failing in just it's fourth tornado season isn't a good sign. Also, how do we know the same policy failure hasn't happened since 2021 but didn't end up materializing anything destructive.
It's not Spencer's fault, and hopefully it doesn't open the city to liability, but it's one of the biggest failures in a long time. An EF3 tornado with no sirens is straight out of a parody. Especially when they were running all day on Thursday. This cannot happen again and someone does need to be fired for it.
The City should be held liable to all victims. Typically, governments are not liable to lack of warning unless transparently negligent. I expect behind the scenes the Mayor and the City's legal department have had MANY conversations about the liability of acknowledging human failure. They acknowledged human failure or negligence, therefore I feel they've chosen to answer for it.
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I would argue it’s been confusing since 2021.Bking wrote:Why would this now become a confusing protocol now when it’s the same CEMA commissioner we have had since 2021?
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Are you serious? Do you really think Russell and Jenkerson wrote that and just left it to chance for both to figure out who is suppose to push the button? And in some kind of miracle it worked out every time since 2021. JfcDebaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 19, 2025Ok. Do you have any evidence of a protocol document contradicting what that fact sheet says about who presses the button between CEMA and FD?dbInSouthCity wrote:https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ySTL-2.pdf
The screenshot from above is from a fact sheet, not a protocol document
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And that’s why it’s so important to be weather aware about the weather particularly this time of the year. As Ryan Hall Ya’ll says don’t be scared be prepared & also I like Max Velocity.Debaliviere91 wrote:The sirens going off or not is very relevant because some people do take them seriously and depend on them.PlatinumBlues wrote:I’ve seen numerous videos on X of people in St.Louis videoing the tornado. Whether those sirens were on or off is almost irrelevant when people don’t take warnings seriously until the event actually happens. Not making excuses but there’s plenty to blame. St.Louis was barely in the moderate risk & it’s not like St.Louis isn’t prone to tornadoes because the area has a history of strong to destructive tornadoes. I honestly believe whether sirens on or off people here just don’t take them seriously & we are absolutely lucky that there wasn’t a mass casualty event. Let’s learn from it & be together as one & not blaming who’s right who’s wrong. Likely we’ll be put in a situation like this event again sometime in the future.
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Hey man. I’m just asking you what the protocol actually is. You must know since you claim to know the Mayor is lying.dbInSouthCity wrote:Are you serious? Do you really think Russell and Jenkerson wrote that and just left it to chance for both to figure out who is suppose to push the button? And in some kind of miracle it worked out every time since 2021. JfcDebaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 19, 2025Ok. Do you have any evidence of a protocol document contradicting what that fact sheet says about who presses the button between CEMA and FD?dbInSouthCity wrote:https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ySTL-2.pdf
The screenshot from above is from a fact sheet, not a protocol document
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And it’s not some miracle that it didn’t work this time and did the small number of times it was activated from 2021 until now. Seems llike a CEMA workshop at the time of the storm would be one way that this ineffective protocol would be exposed.Debaliviere91 wrote:Hey man. I’m just asking you what the protocol actually is. You must know since you claim to know the Mayor is lying.dbInSouthCity wrote:Are you serious? Do you really think Russell and Jenkerson wrote that and just left it to chance for both to figure out who is suppose to push the button? And in some kind of miracle it worked out every time since 2021. JfcDebaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 19, 2025Ok. Do you have any evidence of a protocol document contradicting what that fact sheet says about who presses the button between CEMA and FD?
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I truly hope that everyone effected by the storm is able to recover just reading some of the stories is heartbreaking
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Less than 23,000 without power. Last I heard from Ameren it's expected to be on by 10pm on the 21st.
Except it's not a bad policy. That's just the government narrative to shift blame away from the incumbent administration. Admitting human failure actually shows it's not a policy failure, like you and others are trying to make it out to be. The policy has worked perfectly fine and would have worked again this time had it not been for whatever human failure happened.addxb2 wrote: ↑May 20, 2025Explain to me what you think I'm defending? I'm calling the policy bad because it allowed for human failure in just four years. Nothing between the lines.Auggie wrote: ↑May 19, 2025No. It's not. Every other time there has been a tornado warning in the city in the last 4 years, which is only like 3 or 4 times, I have personally heard the sirens with my own ears. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.addxb2 wrote: ↑May 19, 2025Saying "the policy existed since 2021" is a bad argument. A well written policy should last well beyond four years or any type of political change. It has multiple built in protections. The policy failing in just it's fourth tornado season isn't a good sign. Also, how do we know the same policy failure hasn't happened since 2021 but didn't end up materializing anything destructive.
It's not Spencer's fault, and hopefully it doesn't open the city to liability, but it's one of the biggest failures in a long time. An EF3 tornado with no sirens is straight out of a parody. Especially when they were running all day on Thursday. This cannot happen again and someone does need to be fired for it.
The City should be held liable to all victims. Typically, governments are not liable to lack of warning unless transparently negligent. I expect behind the scenes the Mayor and the City's legal department have had MANY conversations about the liability of acknowledging human failure. They acknowledged human failure or negligence, therefore I feel they've chosen to answer for it.
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Yes, as I said the mayor is lying. It’s always been on cema. Friday and every day before Friday. They were at a workshop on Friday.
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Do you even know what the policy is?Auggie wrote:Except it's not a bad policy. That's just the government narrative to shift blame away from the incumbent administration. Admitting human failure actually shows it's not a policy failure, like you and others are trying to make it out to be. The policy has worked perfectly fine and would have worked again this time had it not been for whatever human failure happened.addxb2 wrote: ↑May 20, 2025Explain to me what you think I'm defending? I'm calling the policy bad because it allowed for human failure in just four years. Nothing between the lines.Auggie wrote: ↑May 19, 2025No. It's not. Every other time there has been a tornado warning in the city in the last 4 years, which is only like 3 or 4 times, I have personally heard the sirens with my own ears. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
It's not Spencer's fault, and hopefully it doesn't open the city to liability, but it's one of the biggest failures in a long time. An EF3 tornado with no sirens is straight out of a parody. Especially when they were running all day on Thursday. This cannot happen again and someone does need to be fired for it.
The City should be held liable to all victims. Typically, governments are not liable to lack of warning unless transparently negligent. I expect behind the scenes the Mayor and the City's legal department have had MANY conversations about the liability of acknowledging human failure. They acknowledged human failure or negligence, therefore I feel they've chosen to answer for it.
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Russell has to resign. She lies at about the 57 second mark, she knew last night that the sirens didn’t go off but at 57 seconds she says she got reports that people did hear them. Also there is no protocol issue like the mayor said. CEMA simply failed to do its job.
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It is a fact that some people reported hearing the sirens, and not just near the city limits.dbInSouthCity wrote:Russell has to resign. She lies at about the 57 second mark, she knew last night that the sirens didn’t go off but at 57 seconds she says she got reports that people did hear them. Also there is no protocol issue like the mayor said. CEMA simply failed to do its job.
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She knew that the city sirens didn’t go off. She lied. It’s not that complicated. She could have said yesterday that it was good that some people were able to hear the county sirens but she didn’t.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑May 20, 2025It is a fact that some people reported hearing the sirens, and not just near the city limits.dbInSouthCity wrote:Russell has to resign. She lies at about the 57 second mark, she knew last night that the sirens didn’t go off but at 57 seconds she says she got reports that people did hear them. Also there is no protocol issue like the mayor said. CEMA simply failed to do its job.
I guess I see your point on whether she could say the sirens were active/not active. Although even now it doesn't appear that everyone is aligned. Regardless, I don't think I see the value in the point when compared to all the other aspects of the story. I can think of a few good reasons not to confirm that information without an investigation and maintaining emergency management. If we were two weeks out and she was saying "We don't know that yet." then yeah, 100% lying.
I also don't recall her denying that the sirens didn't work. From the first press conference I recall "We're looking into it. Prioritizing lives. Investigation ongoing"
I also don't recall her denying that the sirens didn't work. From the first press conference I recall "We're looking into it. Prioritizing lives. Investigation ongoing"
Wouldn't this be an all or none scenario? Either they were turned on and all would sound or they weren't turned on and none would sound ? They definitely went off a few months ago in my neighborhood with the last big storm. They definitely did not go off on Friday. I would agree with DB that someone needs to be fired over this. It doesn't take much awareness of your surroundings that the sirens weren't going off and should be turned on. My family was wondering why they weren't going off an hour before. We knew about the storm for a week and the hours immediately leading up to the tornado we had a noticeable change in the weather.
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There have been recent instances where some alarms didn’t work. I’m not saying that’s the case here.STLAPTS wrote:Wouldn't this be an all or none scenario? Either they were turned on and all would sound or they weren't turned on and none would sound ? They definitely went off a few months ago in my neighborhood with the last big storm. They definitely did not go off on Friday. I would agree with DB that someone needs to be fired over this. It doesn't take much awareness of your surroundings that the sirens weren't going off and should be turned on. My family was wondering why they weren't going off an hour before. We knew about the storm for a week and the hours immediately leading up to the tornado we had a noticeable change in the weather.
https://www.audacy.com/kmox/news/local/ ... ado-sirens