urbanSTL

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Current mayor should be careful about attaching legacy to the N-S transit line. It could be a disaster. Have to remember that we are planning running a transit line through one of the most depopulated areas in the country. This transit line would surely be the least ridden transit line in probably the entire world. That said, I'm not totally against it although skipping a Russell stop that has two schools and an early childhood center nearby is a deal breaker for me personally. Makes zero sense.

It should a dedicated trackless tram anyway. Train tracks are so 20th century and take forever and cost a fortune for such a risky proposition.

The entire Cleveland RTA light rail system (Blue and Green lines) get 1,700 weekday riders or about 850 each. The Green Line's projection could be off by half and still beat out RTA light rail.

I agree that removing Russell was a bad idea, but even if they built it without, they could fairly easily build an infill station as opposed to where we are right now with nothing.

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Current mayor should be careful about attaching legacy to the N-S transit line. It could be a disaster. Have to remember that we are planning running a transit line through one of the most depopulated areas in the country. This transit line would surely be the least ridden transit line in probably the entire world. That said, I'm not totally against it although skipping a Russell stop that has two schools and an early childhood center nearby is a deal breaker for me personally. Makes zero sense.

It should a dedicated trackless tram anyway. Train tracks are so 20th century and take forever and cost a fortune for such a risky proposition.

The near Northside is definitely de-populated, but thousands still live there and the layout is perfect for urban infill. The Southside will definitely carry this line and is probably one of the densest consistent areas of traditional urbanism in the Midwest outside of Chicago. I also disagree with your assessment that this will be one of the least successful lines in the world. I was in Charlotte recently and their main light rail goes through areas that would make Chesterfield look urban and the neighborhoods were not even on a grid. They do have some good infill near downtown, but overall the system didn't seem to be servicing dense urban areas. I'd bet the near Northside (even with population loss) is still denser than most of the areas it served. He'll, I'd bet most of St. Louis County is denser than the actual city of Charlotte. They do have a really nice skyline though.

goat314 wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Current mayor should be careful about attaching legacy to the N-S transit line. It could be a disaster. Have to remember that we are planning running a transit line through one of the most depopulated areas in the country. This transit line would surely be the least ridden transit line in probably the entire world. That said, I'm not totally against it although skipping a Russell stop that has two schools and an early childhood center nearby is a deal breaker for me personally. Makes zero sense.

It should a dedicated trackless tram anyway. Train tracks are so 20th century and take forever and cost a fortune for such a risky proposition.

The near Northside is definitely de-populated, but thousands still live there and the layout is perfect for urban infill. The Southside will definitely carry this line and is probably one of the densest consistent areas of traditional urbanism in the Midwest outside of Chicago. I also disagree with your assessment that this will be one of the least successful lines in the world. I was in Charlotte recently and their main light rail goes through areas that would make Chesterfield look urban and the neighborhoods were not even on a grid. They do have some good infill near downtown, but overall the system didn't seem to be servicing dense urban areas. I'd bet the near Northside (even with population loss) is still denser than most of the areas it served. He'll, I'd bet most of St. Louis County is denser than the actual city of Charlotte. They do have a really nice skyline though.

I have a family member who moved to Charlotte to be an engineer on the construction of their line. Believe it or not, it's spurred significant urban development since it was built and has been successful enough that there's a push to expand their system.

Spencer is going to win. It’s the worst time ever to be an incumbent.

Transit lines have recently  spurred development all across the country - Salt Lake, Seattle, Portland, Charlotte. Hell, the 2 mph KC streetcar has spurred development along its line.


The N-S alignment was not the absolute optimal one, but it can be built off of and will be good service to connect south city riders to the main line. If you get Jefferson built, spurs can come off natural bridge and further down Broadway/55.  New potential lines like RDP, Broadway thru soulard to Chipp/Jeff, Kingshighway alignment, Grand would all then make more sense as they would intersect with three different lines. We could have a European type system that interconnects neighborhoods, rather than the US downtown centric system.

I have no doubt we’d see a dramatic development jump at choteau/jefferson and downtown west. I think there will be more interest and some projects pop up in areas like MLK and St. Louis Place that we frankly just would not see without a new transit line.

In that case, I will not vote for any candidate that is not for the expansion of transit. I am still open minded about this race because there are some things I have been disappointed with Jones about, but would have to see spencer come out in support of rail transit.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Spencer is going to win. It’s the worst time ever to be an incumbent.

I heard that the $50M that was earmarked for condoms in Gaza will now be dropped over St. Louis by helicopters at noon today.

Things have changed. There is hope for the future.

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Spencer is going to win. It’s the worst time ever to be an incumbent.

I heard that the $50M that was earmarked for condoms in Gaza will now be dropped over St. Louis by helicopters at noon today.

Things have changed. There is hope for the future.

Link?

Spencer got the endorsement of the  13th Ward organization (Mark Twain, Baden, Wells Goodfellow, Walnut Park and North Riverfront)

I don't recall if any north STL wards endorsed Spencer last time.

Will probably hurt her more than the increase in building permits and building permit value in North City will help her. Because that's just how this city works.

Auggie wrote:Will probably hurt her more than the increase in building permits and building permit value in North City will help her. Because that's just how this city works.

Mainly because the Northside program is her admins. They’ve done a terrible job with it and people need to be fired for the botched communications alone. Reading this article regarding the program is embarrassing, almost on par with SLPS and the DA office.

Permits are private businesses or non-profits who have likely been working on projects for years. She can’t claim them as her wins, because they aren’t. In fact, I can’t think of a single large north city project which was identified and implemented during her admin.

My gripe with Jones has always been the same. She’s terrible at communicating and has mixed success at choosing leaders.

What do you mean by large north city project?

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:What do you mean by large north city project?

Large real estate development?


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addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 10, 2025

Auggie wrote:Will probably hurt her more than the increase in building permits and building permit value in North City will help her. Because that's just how this city works.

Mainly because the Northside program is her admins. They’ve done a terrible job with it and people need to be fired for the botched communications alone. Reading this article regarding the program is embarrassing, almost on par with SLPS and the DA office.

Permits are private businesses or non-profits who have likely been working on projects for years. She can’t claim them as her wins, because they aren’t. In fact, I can’t think of a single large north city project which was identified and implemented during her admin.

My gripe with Jones has always been the same. She’s terrible at communicating and has mixed success at choosing leaders.

Building permits have historically been much lower in North City than the other regions of the city. Since Jones came in office, North City building permits have increased by a significant %, even while the rest of the city has declined in line with the general decrease in development following the increase of interest rates across the country.

You have to be willfully ignoring reality to act like that just happened independent of Jones.

I don’t know if highlighting the fact that the city has lost development speed is a flex. Especially considering the jury is out on whether interest rates are solely responsible.

My expectation is that a larger share of projects in North St. Louis are subsidized by federal and local programs. They continue without as much variability on interest rates.

Also, explain to me in detail what Jones admin did to drum up development in North St. Louis? Why didn’t she share that with the entire city? Will she be able to do it again when the City isn’t receiving a massive federal gift via ARPA?

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 10, 2025

I don’t know if highlighting the fact that the city has lost development speed is a flex. Especially considering the jury is out on whether interest rates are solely responsible.

My expectation is that a larger share of projects in North St. Louis are subsidized by federal and local programs. They continue without as much variability on interest rates.

Also, explain to me in detail what Jones admin did to drum up development in North St. Louis? Why didn’t she share that with the entire city? Will she be able to do it again when the City isn’t receiving a massive federal gift via ARPA?

Presumably you're unaware of the tax incentive reforms meant to help spur more development in North City? Doesn't really surprise me.

The jury may be out for you, but over here in reality, development acorss the country plummeted after 2022. Not just St. Louis. And unsurprisingly, development has started picking back up since interest rates have started going back down.

Auggie wrote:

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 10, 2025

I don’t know if highlighting the fact that the city has lost development speed is a flex. Especially considering the jury is out on whether interest rates are solely responsible.

My expectation is that a larger share of projects in North St. Louis are subsidized by federal and local programs. They continue without as much variability on interest rates.

Also, explain to me in detail what Jones admin did to drum up development in North St. Louis? Why didn’t she share that with the entire city? Will she be able to do it again when the City isn’t receiving a massive federal gift via ARPA?

Presumably you're unaware of the tax incentive reforms meant to help spur more development in North City? Doesn't really surprise me.

The jury may be out for you, but over here in reality, development acorss the country plummeted after 2022. Not just St. Louis. And unsurprisingly, development has started picking back up since interest rates have started going back down.

Oh? Enlighten me, in detail, how or why the tax incentive reform led to more investment in North St. Louis but not anywhere else in the City.

I’m not denying interest rates have caused the overall slow down. I’m denying that this mayor has done as much for North St. Louis as you claim. Especially when you take away everything that was directly connected to a one-time federal cash infusion.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 10, 2025

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:What do you mean by large north city project?

Large real estate development?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok. Just off the top of my head:

-Jones has moved the N/S line further than any Mayor before her

-ICL $574MM north riverfront development (originally slated for South City)

-Ostara $40MM investment in the North Riverfront

-P&G $180MM investment in the north riverfront

-AMICSTL $60MM investment

-She’s going to war against Paul McKee

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 10, 2025

Auggie wrote:

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 10, 2025

I don’t know if highlighting the fact that the city has lost development speed is a flex. Especially considering the jury is out on whether interest rates are solely responsible.

My expectation is that a larger share of projects in North St. Louis are subsidized by federal and local programs. They continue without as much variability on interest rates.

Also, explain to me in detail what Jones admin did to drum up development in North St. Louis? Why didn’t she share that with the entire city? Will she be able to do it again when the City isn’t receiving a massive federal gift via ARPA?

Presumably you're unaware of the tax incentive reforms meant to help spur more development in North City? Doesn't really surprise me.

The jury may be out for you, but over here in reality, development acorss the country plummeted after 2022. Not just St. Louis. And unsurprisingly, development has started picking back up since interest rates have started going back down.

Oh? Enlighten me, in detail, how or why the tax incentive reform led to more investment in North St. Louis but not anywhere else in the City.

I’m not denying interest rates have caused the overall slow down. I’m denying that this mayor has done as much for North St. Louis as you claim. Especially when you take away everything that was directly connected to a one-time federal cash infusion.

The reforms were designed to take what would have been incentives towards projects in the central corridor and put more of it towards projects in north city. That would be why the reforms meant to help north city didn't help the rest of the city.

I’m not denying that there are more or greater permits on the north side. I’m denying that it has anything to do with the tax reform. It’s far more likely that it’s because the City received a massive one-time cash gift which the legislative body allocated predominantly to North St. Louis. In fact, the part of that investment that has been the least impactful was driven by Jones SLDC admin. In reality, at any point in recent history, any developer would’ve gotten any amount of incentive for any project in North St. Louis. The reform did slow down incentives elsewhere (ooops!), but not explicitly to the benefit of North St. Louis.

None of this matters. Best possible thing to inspire development anywhere in the city is maintain strong services. Jones has fixed a few (911 being the largest most critical) but the average St. Louisan would give Jones an D+ at best.

"I'm just saying, the massive not seen in decades turnaround for development in North City has nothing to do with the mayor who ran on spurring more development in North City."