urbanSTL

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

In addition to only 20 minute headways, they cut service on the blue line to only operate between Forest Park to Shrewsbury a significant amount of time making it's even more time-consuming to use the system. Metro does not care about riders or good service.

They're doing work in the metro east which is limiting frequency. Not sure how long it'll take.

And taking zero steps to limit the impact on riders or keep up service frequency. Metro does not care and puts no effort into limiting the footprint of service reduction or limiting the inconvenience for riders. They do not care about providing timely and reliable service.

If the work limits track capacity, there's not a lot they can do.

The reason the Blue Line stops at FP is because that's the last place where there's a 3rd track for turnaround until Fairview Heights I think. So they can't run a train past there.

Auggie wrote:Is the wifi on trains new? I just noticed that a couple days ago. I don't ever remember getting a wifi notification in the past.

I remember them announcing it in 2021, though I can’t say I remember getting WIFI notifications either.


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Well it's up and running and works because I can text and sh*t underground lol. That's a pretty nice little upgrade.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

They're doing work in the metro east which is limiting frequency. Not sure how long it'll take.

And taking zero steps to limit the impact on riders or keep up service frequency. Metro does not care and puts no effort into limiting the footprint of service reduction or limiting the inconvenience for riders. They do not care about providing timely and reliable service.

If the work limits track capacity, there's not a lot they can do.

The reason the Blue Line stops at FP is because that's the last place where there's a 3rd track for turnaround until Fairview Heights I think. So they can't run a train past there.

There's a third track at Emerson Park which is conveniently the station before where the current maintenance work (JJK Center to Fairview Heights) starts. There's a whole depot at Jefferson so they could easily turn trains around at Grand. Given the (in)frequency of trains I bet they could even do it with just a crossover switch and no third track. But all of these options are more than the bare minimum so they'll never go for it.

And it's gotten much worse lately service-wise. They don't seem to care - at all. I ride from Shrewsbury to CWE when I go into the office, and when the recent maintenance closure began on the Blue line, the driver made the announcement near the FP station that we had to get off and wait for EB Red line trains to continue (which during prime rush hour makes my commute nearly one hour now). But when going the opposite direction back to Shrewsbury the crowded CWE platform at 4PM on a weekday was completely confused as to What was going on. Zero announcements, zero signs and not a Metro employee in sight. Once a couple of security guards were on the platform, they didn't even know what was going on. It didn't used to be this bad, so not sure what happened and when. I distinctly recall a very organized commute years ago when they had to shut down the Blue line westbound due to one of the tunnels flooding, and the amount of staff to direct riders and organization was impressive. It's become a joke now, and if it wasn't a perk of my WashU job, I probably wouldn't bother TBH.

Not my experience at all. Go from Shrewsbury to UMSL and they always make the announcement after every station that the train only goes to Forest Park. You must've gotten unlucky.

^Well we need the automated announcements. I assume the new train fleet will have those when they arrive.

We should expect 10 minute headways by now in both lines. And the bare minimum should be that if they can’t run both trains down the spine, then the working line should double its frequency. The whole point of the lines running the same route FP to FV  is for the increased frequency. 20 minutes between trains doesn’t cut it in the central corridor (and shouldn’t anywhere in the system). We have a legitimate grade separated light rail - let’s use it correctly.

I appreciate that Bi-State sticks to their schedules that they put out - unlike CTA who just flaunts frequency schedules that they absolutely do not actually meet but it makes them look better when you just look at the “times between trains”. Metrolink though is basically setting a low bar that it can meet. A lot of transit systems have now gotten to their pre-COVID frequencies and ridership. We can’t get the ridership back without a return to 10 minute metrolink headways and the increased frequency routes that metro bus had started just before COVID.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Jan 23, 2025

^Well we need the automated announcements. I assume the new train fleet will have those when they arrive.

We should expect 10 minute headways by now in both lines. And the bare minimum should be that if they can’t run both trains down the spine, then the working line should double its frequency. The whole point of the lines running the same route FP to FV  is for the increased frequency. 20 minutes between trains doesn’t cut it in the central corridor (and shouldn’t anywhere in the system). We have a legitimate grade separated light rail - let’s use it correctly.

I appreciate that Bi-State sticks to their schedules that they put out - unlike CTA who just flaunts frequency schedules that they absolutely do not actually meet but it makes them look better when you just look at the “times between trains”. Metrolink though is basically setting a low bar that it can meet. A lot of transit systems have now gotten to their pre-COVID frequencies and ridership. We can’t get the ridership back without a return to 10 minute metrolink headways and the increased frequency routes that metro bus had started just before COVID.

Part of the reason we haven't seen ridership rebound is the 2022 floods. Since it was fully reopened, ridership has been way up.

Metro continuing half-service through at least February 5. No attempt to minimized the disruption through the core of the system, no effort to expand system flexibility, just half the already bare-minimum of service. This is not a way to attract riders who have any other option and it makes current riders look for other options. Metro does not care.

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Metro continuing half-service through at least February 5. No attempt to minimized the disruption through the core of the system, no effort to expand system flexibility, just half the already bare-minimum of service. This is not a way to attract riders who have any other option and it makes current riders look for other options. Metro does not care.

Track instability at JJK Station, apparently taking longer to repair than they expected. Here's what they say about the modified blue line service:

"MetroLink normally operates on two tracks (one eastbound, one westbound). However, when there is an issue affecting one of the tracks – construction work, car on the rail, unstable ground, etc. – we move all trains to the other track, or what we call single-track operations. This is when all trains, eastbound and westbound, must share a single track. MetroLink trains can only change tracks where there is a crossover, and the locations of these crossovers determine how long a distance trains must share on a single track.

In our current situation, the potential ground instability is located in a small area of the tracks in Illinois. However, in order for trains to safely travel around that area, they have to share a single track for more than five miles due to where the crossovers are located.

Five miles is a long distance for a single-track operation, because only one train can be in that long section of track at a time. Other trains, both eastbound and westbound, need to wait for that one train to clear the shared track before they can continue. This restricts the number of trains that can pass through the area.

If we were to run normal Red Line and Blue Line service during this single-track operation, there would not be enough time for a train to clear the shared track before another train needed to go. Trains would start to pile up in lines, waiting for the shared track to be cleared. This would create significant delays, completely inaccurate schedules, and unsafe operations.

Instead, by limiting Blue Line service to only operate between Shrewsbury and Forest Park Stations, we can prevent disastrous bottlenecks on the tracks, maintain schedules, and minimize delays."

Seems like they care more than you think. Would you rather them run a consistent 20 minute schedule or an inconsistent and sporadically delayed 10-15 minute service?

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Metro continuing half-service through at least February 5. No attempt to minimized the disruption through the core of the system, no effort to expand system flexibility, just half the already bare-minimum of service. This is not a way to attract riders who have any other option and it makes current riders look for other options. Metro does not care.

Track instability at JJK Station, apparently taking longer to repair than they expected. Here's what they say about the modified blue line service:

"MetroLink normally operates on two tracks (one eastbound, one westbound). However, when there is an issue affecting one of the tracks – construction work, car on the rail, unstable ground, etc. – we move all trains to the other track, or what we call single-track operations. This is when all trains, eastbound and westbound, must share a single track. MetroLink trains can only change tracks where there is a crossover, and the locations of these crossovers determine how long a distance trains must share on a single track.

In our current situation, the potential ground instability is located in a small area of the tracks in Illinois. However, in order for trains to safely travel around that area, they have to share a single track for more than five miles due to where the crossovers are located.

Five miles is a long distance for a single-track operation, because only one train can be in that long section of track at a time. Other trains, both eastbound and westbound, need to wait for that one train to clear the shared track before they can continue. This restricts the number of trains that can pass through the area.

If we were to run normal Red Line and Blue Line service during this single-track operation, there would not be enough time for a train to clear the shared track before another train needed to go. Trains would start to pile up in lines, waiting for the shared track to be cleared. This would create significant delays, completely inaccurate schedules, and unsafe operations.

Instead, by limiting Blue Line service to only operate between Shrewsbury and Forest Park Stations, we can prevent disastrous bottlenecks on the tracks, maintain schedules, and minimize delays."

Seems like they care more than you think. Would you rather them run a consistent 20 minute schedule or an inconsistent and sporadically delayed 10-15 minute service?

I would rather they don't cut Blue Line service all the way back to Forest Park when the single track area is in Illinois. There are multiple points between Forest Park and JJK that could have used to turn around Blue Line trains and rather than maximize regular service to unaffected areas, they chose to minimize it. It shows a lack of respect to their riders and the frequency that service is cut like this drives away riders.

Yeah they could at least run trains through to Grand and turn around at the maintenance facility by Jefferson. 

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Yeah they could at least run trains through to Grand and turn around at the maintenance facility by Jefferson. 

That's probably the only other option that would work, but the maintence facility is still kinda a ways down from Grand. It would be quite a ways a Blue Line train would have to go just to switch over. But you're probably right.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Track instability at JJK Station, apparently taking longer to repair than they expected. Here's what they say about the modified blue line service:

"MetroLink normally operates on two tracks (one eastbound, one westbound). However, when there is an issue affecting one of the tracks – construction work, car on the rail, unstable ground, etc. – we move all trains to the other track, or what we call single-track operations. This is when all trains, eastbound and westbound, must share a single track. MetroLink trains can only change tracks where there is a crossover, and the locations of these crossovers determine how long a distance trains must share on a single track.

In our current situation, the potential ground instability is located in a small area of the tracks in Illinois. However, in order for trains to safely travel around that area, they have to share a single track for more than five miles due to where the crossovers are located.

Five miles is a long distance for a single-track operation, because only one train can be in that long section of track at a time. Other trains, both eastbound and westbound, need to wait for that one train to clear the shared track before they can continue. This restricts the number of trains that can pass through the area.

If we were to run normal Red Line and Blue Line service during this single-track operation, there would not be enough time for a train to clear the shared track before another train needed to go. Trains would start to pile up in lines, waiting for the shared track to be cleared. This would create significant delays, completely inaccurate schedules, and unsafe operations.

Instead, by limiting Blue Line service to only operate between Shrewsbury and Forest Park Stations, we can prevent disastrous bottlenecks on the tracks, maintain schedules, and minimize delays."

Seems like they care more than you think. Would you rather them run a consistent 20 minute schedule or an inconsistent and sporadically delayed 10-15 minute service?

I would rather they don't cut Blue Line service all the way back to Forest Park when the single track area is in Illinois. There are multiple points between Forest Park and JJK that could have used to turn around Blue Line trains and rather than maximize regular service to unaffected areas, they chose to minimize it. It shows a lack of respect to their riders and the frequency that service is cut like this drives away riders.

They literally explained why though. It's largely out of their control and they're trying to fix it.

They explained why they are single-tracking through the affected area (which is 5 miles/3 stations in Illinois), not why they are cutting service throughout the whole system. There are 3 potential Blue Line terminus points they could have used east of Forest Park (Grand/Jefferson yard, Emerson Park, and JJK/St Clair yard depending on where exactly the grade instability is) that would still stop Blue Line trains short of the affected area and allow them to single-track only Red Line trains where it's needed. These points all have either an associated yard or a third track to turn around/idle a waiting train just like they do at Forest Park so they wouldn't risk the delays/bottlenecks they claim to be worried about. I understand the maintenance needs, they happen, the problem is that Metro has shown no interest in minimizing disruption to service. Frequent irregular schedules, longer headways, and requiring many riders to transfer on what used to be a single-seat trip are things that discourage new riders from trying transit and encourage existing riders to find other means to get around, which usually means driving. Metro appears to not care about making their service a competitive option for people who have other ways to get around.

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

I would rather they don't cut Blue Line service all the way back to Forest Park when the single track area is in Illinois. There are multiple points between Forest Park and JJK that could have used to turn around Blue Line trains and rather than maximize regular service to unaffected areas, they chose to minimize it. It shows a lack of respect to their riders and the frequency that service is cut like this drives away riders.

They literally explained why though. It's largely out of their control and they're trying to fix it.

They explained why they are single-tracking through the affected area (which is 5 miles/3 stations in Illinois), not why they are cutting service throughout the whole system. There are 3 potential Blue Line terminus points they could have used east of Forest Park (Grand/Jefferson yard, Emerson Park, and JJK/St Clair yard depending on where exactly the grade instability is) that would still stop Blue Line trains short of the affected area and allow them to single-track only Red Line trains where it's needed. These points all have either an associated yard or a third track to turn around/idle a waiting train just like they do at Forest Park so they wouldn't risk the delays/bottlenecks they claim to be worried about. I understand the maintenance needs, they happen, the problem is that Metro has shown no interest in minimizing disruption to service. Frequent irregular schedules, longer headways, and requiring many riders to transfer on what used to be a single-seat trip are things that discourage new riders from trying transit and encourage existing riders to find other means to get around, which usually means driving. Metro appears to not care about making their service a competitive option for people who have other ways to get around.

They explain in their statement for why. If you go read it, you may understand. I don't know what to tell you.

There's an alternate timeline where they do what you're suggesting, and you're still on here complaining about sporadic delays. One or the other, like I said.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

They literally explained why though. It's largely out of their control and they're trying to fix it.

They explained why they are single-tracking through the affected area (which is 5 miles/3 stations in Illinois), not why they are cutting service throughout the whole system. There are 3 potential Blue Line terminus points they could have used east of Forest Park (Grand/Jefferson yard, Emerson Park, and JJK/St Clair yard depending on where exactly the grade instability is) that would still stop Blue Line trains short of the affected area and allow them to single-track only Red Line trains where it's needed. These points all have either an associated yard or a third track to turn around/idle a waiting train just like they do at Forest Park so they wouldn't risk the delays/bottlenecks they claim to be worried about. I understand the maintenance needs, they happen, the problem is that Metro has shown no interest in minimizing disruption to service. Frequent irregular schedules, longer headways, and requiring many riders to transfer on what used to be a single-seat trip are things that discourage new riders from trying transit and encourage existing riders to find other means to get around, which usually means driving. Metro appears to not care about making their service a competitive option for people who have other ways to get around.

They explain in their statement for why. If you go read it, you may understand. I don't know what to tell you.

There's an alternate timeline where they do what you're suggesting, and you're still on here complaining about sporadic delays. One or the other, like I said.

Not really

Metro plainly does not care about the riders, like they just don't and have demonstrated that a million times in the last few years. Can't imagine being a fanatical defender of their actions, like Auggie you even agreed with me they could have stopped the Blue line at Grand to use the Jefferson yard, why do you think Metro's doing a good job?

It goes much deeper than this particular issue, we have every right to be skeptical of Metro's actions. 

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Metro plainly does not care about the riders, like they just don't and have demonstrated that a million times in the last few years. Can't imagine being a fanatical defender of their actions, like Auggie you even agreed with me they could have stopped the Blue line at Grand to use the Jefferson yard, why do you think Metro's doing a good job?

It goes much deeper than this particular issue, we have every right to be skeptical of Metro's actions. 

I feel the same way about the CTA in Chicago. I wouldn't say Metro does not care about their riders. I think they are a conservative organization with odd bureaucratic restraints in a poor state funding. I think the things that make them annoying now, will save them (and riders) in this upcoming administration.

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Metro plainly does not care about the riders, like they just don't and have demonstrated that a million times in the last few years. Can't imagine being a fanatical defender of their actions, like Auggie you even agreed with me they could have stopped the Blue line at Grand to use the Jefferson yard, why do you think Metro's doing a good job?

It goes much deeper than this particular issue, we have every right to be skeptical of Metro's actions. 

I said it probably could have been done, but I also said that is a long distance to just turn a train around and neither you or I have any knowledge or understanding of how that would actually work, meaning we cannot say with any certainty at all if that's an actual option.

I think Metro is a much better transit agency than most of our peer city's transit agencies. My expectations for them are tempered and I've seen and experienced much much worse than them. So if that's "fanatic" support, I guess that's "fanatic" support.

I feel sorry for you all in Missouri, but that’s what happens when your state government shifts far right and is now trying to kill your system. People in rural areas in MO seem more content with killing the urban areas that generate their tax revenue instead of building those areas up so everyone can benefit, which is how your state used to be run up to 10-15 years ago. Meanwhile Illinois, which was in a massive hole for a long time, finally seems to be digging out of it.


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