urbanSTL

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 29, 2025

The Post-Dispatch has done a decent job documenting the missteps of the current administration.  You can pan it all you want, most people I  know consider that to be pretty credible.  I do not feel any need whatsoever to list the reasons because I have no desire to try to convince people to agree with me.  You pick the candidate you think is best and so does everyone else.  And that should be okay without being called stupid or ignorant.  No one has crowned you king, I could say the same thing about you couldn't I?  

"Is it a guarnatee that Spencer will be better? Of course not."

'Enough said. Thanks for making my case.'"


Do better than this.  There's no guarantee that TJ would do any better in a second term, but we have her first term on which to base an informed opinion, and sorry, the majority of people I know in the city don't think she delivered. 

Dude you literally admitted that you can't guarantee that Spencer would be better than what we already have in Jones. You may not realize but you don't even think Jones has been bad, you just personally don't like her. That's further supported by your refusal to cite anything to support your positions. Which you say isn't necessary, and you're right, but that also means you should stay out of conversations on here if you're unwilling to actually contribute.

If Jones was obviously terrible, then Spencer would clearly do a better job. It's pretty simple.

This debacle reminds me of when the Blues traded Jaroslav Halak to the Buffalo Sabres for Ryan Miller. Halak was having a fine season and the Blues were rolling, but they felt they needed a goalie change. Needless to say, the gamble didn't work out and Miller fell off. Blues wasted 2 picks and Halak for 25 games of sub par Ryan Miller because of the chance that Miller would be better than the already suitable Halak. Do you understand why making an unnecessary change is a risk?

Spencer cannot return the money. Jones campaign is trying to play offense with this.

Of course she cannot return the money; it belongs to the pac that she cannot coordinate with but nothing stops her from saying “if I was in charge of the pac I wouldn’t accept retribution money” or countless other ways to send a smoke signal to that effect

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 29, 2025

The Post-Dispatch has done a decent job documenting the missteps of the current administration.  You can pan it all you want, most people I  know consider that to be pretty credible.  I do not feel any need whatsoever to list the reasons because I have no desire to try to convince people to agree with me.  You pick the candidate you think is best and so does everyone else.  And that should be okay without being called stupid or ignorant.  No one has crowned you king, I could say the same thing about you couldn't I?  

"Is it a guarnatee that Spencer will be better? Of course not."

'Enough said. Thanks for making my case.'"


Do better than this.  There's no guarantee that TJ would do any better in a second term, but we have her first term on which to base an informed opinion, and sorry, the majority of people I know in the city don't think she delivered. 

Dude you literally admitted that you can't guarantee that Spencer would be better than what we already have in Jones. You may not realize but you don't even think Jones has been bad, you just personally don't like her. That's further supported by your refusal to cite anything to support your positions. Which you say isn't necessary, and you're right, but that also means you should stay out of conversations on here if you're unwilling to actually contribute.

If Jones was obviously terrible, then Spencer would clearly do a better job. It's pretty simple.

This debacle reminds me of when the Blues traded Jaroslav Halak to the Buffalo Sabres for Ryan Miller. Halak was having a fine season and the Blues were rolling, but they felt they needed a goalie change. Needless to say, the gamble didn't work out and Miller fell off. Blues wasted 2 picks and Halak for 25 games of sub par Ryan Miller because of the chance that Miller would be better than the already suitable Halak. Do you understand why making an unnecessary change is a risk?

As a business owner for the past 15 years and someone who has paid close attention to and been involved in civic discourse in the City of St. Louis for 2+ decades, I do not feel like the city is in better shape today than it was 4 years ago and I would bet the overwhelming majority would agree.  Is that merely anecdotal?  Maybe, but just being honest.  Again, would the average St. Louisan say they feel encouraged overall about the direction of the city right now?  That's an open question.  Based on population stats and personal experience I would guess not.  I'm not denying that TJ has made some strides, but it has definitely fallen short of the seismic change that voters were promised and I think Cara represents a much more optimistic vision.   You can rattle off all your facts and figures about what is better now than before and how Cara is in cahoots with big bad developers and can't be trusted, but she's has earned a great deal of respect from her constituents in her ward and beyond.  You keep saying she has no experience but that's such bullsh*t and I'm sure you know that.  And Auggie, I don't know you at all but you come across as really passionate and intelligent but young and pretty dismissive of people who maybe have different points of view.  I don't fault you for that but you're not helping Tishaura's campaign on this forum, that is for sure.  No offense meant by that, sincerely.

Okay, hammer me for saying there's no guarantee Cara would be better, I would expect you to latch onto that as some profound admission, whatever.  There's never any guarantee about any candidate, but my point is that Cara-- IN MY OPINION-- has earned a shot.  

^What in your view is Cara's optimistic vision? The platform on her website seemed pretty much just nuts and bolts making services better. Which I understand is enough for a lot of people but I don't see it as visionary. 

Cara isn’t new to politics. There is a 10 year track record of being in charge of a ward with one of the lowest voter turnouts and one of the least invested in neighborhoods.

wow, never imagined mayor's race would be this contentious, polarized, marketing heavy and mud slinging contest even in this forum.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

DB, you didn’t say any of this about Cara four years ago.  Why the change?

And the wards weee redone, so saying she is in charge of all that non investment is cherry picked data, which you seem to be doing with increasing frequency.

I don’t do cherry picked data. I’m not talking about her new post 2023 ward, I’m talking about her ward (20th) for most of her elected career

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

DB, you didn’t say any of this about Cara four years ago.  Why the change?

And the wards weee redone, so saying she is in charge of all that non investment is cherry picked data, which you seem to be doing with increasing frequency.

4 years ago it was an open race, Jones didn't have 4 successful years under her belt, Spencer wasn't bought by an out-of-city billionaire, and she wasn't running a moderate campaign based on nothing but misleading at best attacks.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

DB, you didn’t say any of this about Cara four years ago.  Why the change?

And the wards weee redone, so saying she is in charge of all that non investment is cherry picked data, which you seem to be doing with increasing frequency.

You mean cherry picked similar to how Spencer went out looking for exceptionally icy streets just to take a picture to post on social media and act like that's what all the streets look like?

More gaslighting *yawn*.  Auggie, you are not doing Tishaura any favors, I promise.  You are telling people not to believe their own eyes and that is never a winning strategy (actually it works for Trump lol). 
 We had to close our business for 5 days because of the city's abject failure to make the streets and sidewalks even remotely passable.  5 days. That is 5 days of revenue, poof!  5 days of work hours for our employees, gone.  We are just one of COUNTLESS businesses around the city forced to close for multiple days that week. Inexcusable. Keep trying to downplay that fumble, you must really think people are stupid.

That was a squandered leadership opportunity when it really mattered, especially during a mayoral campaign. 

But who cares about that, let's talk about how Cara isn't qualified to lead because her ward had low voter turnout and some guy named Bob Clark! 

^^ wait. So now we're back to the streets weren't bad?

So what did Jones apologize for?

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

DB, you didn’t say any of this about Cara four years ago.  Why the change?

And the wards weee redone, so saying she is in charge of all that non investment is cherry picked data, which you seem to be doing with increasing frequency.

You mean cherry picked similar to how Spencer went out looking for exceptionally icy streets just to take a picture to post on social media and act like that's what all the streets look like?

More gaslighting *yawn*.  Auggie, you are not doing Tishaura any favors, I promise.  You are telling people not to believe their own eyes and that is never a winning strategy (actually it works for Trump lol). 
 We had to close our business for 5 days because of the city's abject failure to make the streets and sidewalks even remotely passable.  5 days. That is 5 days of revenue, poof!  5 days of work hours for our employees, gone.  We are just one of COUNTLESS businesses around the city forced to close for multiple days that week. Inexcusable. Keep trying to downplay that fumble, you must really think people are stupid.

That was a squandered leadership opportunity when it really mattered, especially during a mayoral campaign. 

But who cares about that, let's talk about how Cara isn't qualified to lead because her ward had low voter turnout and some guy named Bob Clark! 

So the answer is "yes". Nice.

Outside of this forum I don't hear much enthusiasm for Jones this time around.

People I knew that canvassed for her in 2021 and 2017 have kept their powder thus far.

Maybe they're just slow to tune in this year. M

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 29, 2025

The Post-Dispatch has done a decent job documenting the missteps of the current administration.  You can pan it all you want, most people I  know consider that to be pretty credible.  I do not feel any need whatsoever to list the reasons because I have no desire to try to convince people to agree with me.  You pick the candidate you think is best and so does everyone else.  And that should be okay without being called stupid or ignorant.  No one has crowned you king, I could say the same thing about you couldn't I?  

"Is it a guarnatee that Spencer will be better? Of course not."

'Enough said. Thanks for making my case.'"


Do better than this.  There's no guarantee that TJ would do any better in a second term, but we have her first term on which to base an informed opinion, and sorry, the majority of people I know in the city don't think she delivered. 

Dude you literally admitted that you can't guarantee that Spencer would be better than what we already have in Jones. You may not realize but you don't even think Jones has been bad, you just personally don't like her. That's further supported by your refusal to cite anything to support your positions. Which you say isn't necessary, and you're right, but that also means you should stay out of conversations on here if you're unwilling to actually contribute.

If Jones was obviously terrible, then Spencer would clearly do a better job. It's pretty simple.

This debacle reminds me of when the Blues traded Jaroslav Halak to the Buffalo Sabres for Ryan Miller. Halak was having a fine season and the Blues were rolling, but they felt they needed a goalie change. Needless to say, the gamble didn't work out and Miller fell off. Blues wasted 2 picks and Halak for 25 games of sub par Ryan Miller because of the chance that Miller would be better than the already suitable Halak. Do you understand why making an unnecessary change is a risk?

As a business owner for the past 15 years and someone who has paid close attention to and been involved in civic discourse in the City of St. Louis for 2+ decades, I do not feel like the city is in better shape today than it was 4 years ago and I would bet the overwhelming majority would agree.  Is that merely anecdotal?  Maybe, but just being honest.  Again, would the average St. Louisan say they feel encouraged overall about the direction of the city right now?  That's an open question.  Based on population stats and personal experience I would guess not.  I'm not denying that TJ has made some strides, but it has definitely fallen short of the seismic change that voters were promised and I think Cara represents a much more optimistic vision.   You can rattle off all your facts and figures about what is better now than before and how Cara is in cahoots with big bad developers and can't be trusted, but she's has earned a great deal of respect from her constituents in her ward and beyond.  You keep saying she has no experience but that's such bullsh*t and I'm sure you know that.  And Auggie, I don't know you at all but you come across as really passionate and intelligent but young and pretty dismissive of people who maybe have different points of view.  I don't fault you for that but you're not helping Tishaura's campaign on this forum, that is for sure.  No offense meant by that, sincerely.

Okay, hammer me for saying there's no guarantee Cara would be better, I would expect you to latch onto that as some profound admission, whatever.  There's never any guarantee about any candidate, but my point is that Cara-- IN MY OPINION-- has earned a shot.  

Look, I appreciate that you think I'm passionate and intelligent. But my stances are solely in favor of the facts. The facts clearly show the city is trending up under Jones and I see no reason to make a change right now. That's why in dismissive of opinions that go directly against the facts of reality.

If the facts showed Jones was doing poorly, then I would be on the Spencer train like I was in the past. But they simply don't and I've yet to see anyone make a detailed, comprehensive argument as to why I should believe Spencer will do better than Jones. Which I beleive is imperative in deciding whether to vote out an incumbent or keep them in.

Spencer maybe deserves a shot, I don't dislike her and never have, but it's not right now. And if the roles were reversed (Spencer elected in 2021, city trending up, facing challenge from Jones), I would feel the same way. But I suspect that many in this forum and outside of it would feel entirely differently if Spencer was in office with Jones' track record. She'd be cruising to re-election as one of the city's best mayors.

]

Look, I appreciate that you think I'm passionate and intelligent. But my stances are solely in favor of the facts. The facts clearly show the city is trending up under Jones and I see no reason to make a change right now. That's why in dismissive of opinions that go directly against the facts of reality.

If the facts showed Jones was doing poorly, then I would be on the Spencer train like I was in the past. But they simply don't and I've yet to see anyone make a detailed, comprehensive argument as to why I should believe Spencer will do better than Jones. Which I beleive is imperative in deciding whether to vote out an incumbent or keep them in.

Spencer maybe deserves a shot, I don't dislike her and never have, but it's not right now. And if the roles were reversed (Spencer elected in 2021, city trending up, facing challenge from Jones), I would feel the same way. But I suspect that many in this forum and outside of it would feel entirely differently if Spencer was in office with Jones' track record. She'd be cruising to re-election as one of the city's best mayors.

This is why I think gaslighting is the only path for Team Jones. Tell people they are stupid. Tell them they don't know what's best for them (but you do). Tell them they "don't even think Jones is bad, you just don't like her." Tell them they aren't seeing or experiencing what they actually are. Tell them St. Louis is trending up when it isn't. I wish you luck with that.

Unfortunately you are detached from reality and I guess resorting to Trump campaign tactics. If you (Auggie) are employed by or affiliated with the Jones campaign, your MO just reinforces my support for Cara Spencer. Accountability matters.

(Unless you're working for Spencer- in that case keep up the good work!)

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Tell them St. Louis is trending up when it isn't.

Out of curiosity, what metric is stagnant or trending downward that you are referring to?

Black02AltimaSE wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Tell them St. Louis is trending up when it isn't.

Out of curiosity, what metric is stagnant or trending downward that you are referring to?

Population is the obvious, but just in general- would anyone say St. Louis is trending up in the hierarchy of major cities? The gap between STL and cities that have surpassed it continues to widen, and the gap between STL and growing cities that are still smaller is closing.

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Black02AltimaSE wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

jivecitystl wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

Tell them St. Louis is trending up when it isn't.

Out of curiosity, what metric is stagnant or trending downward that you are referring to?

Population is the obvious, but just in general- would anyone say St. Louis is trending up in the hierarchy of major cities? The gap between STL and cities that have surpassed it continues to widen, and the gap between STL and growing cities that are still smaller is closing.

Which city neighborhood do you live in and what population changes has it gone through from 1970 to today?

What’s more likely, people have finally developed concern for decades old problems of population decline and notable downtown vacancies in the last two years, or they’re mad that they have a black female mayor for the first time and are grasping anything to dethrone her?

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Jan 30, 2025

What’s more likely, people have finally developed concern for decades old problems of population decline and notable downtown vacancies in the last two years, or they’re mad that they have a black female mayor for the first time and are grasping anything to dethrone her?

Another one to add to the gaslighting hit list: Tell people they are racist because they support a challenging candidate.