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Too bad Bob doesn’t employ anyone in the city where such mayoral election is taking place
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I had a much longer answer, but looks like it didn't post.SB in BH wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025Can someone give me a positive case for a Spencer admin without referencing Jones, Slay, misc. billionaires or the SLBJ, or "progressive," "moderate," etc.?
I don't see much daylight between them in terms of actual policy, or any tangible reason to think Spencer would be a better administrator than Jones. What are the actual differences besides race, geography, and family baggage?
Short answer because I don't want to retype everything: I think Jones' ability as an administrator may set her apart more than anything else. I'd be very concerned about Spencer's abilities in this particular area. I imagine some things are transferrable from her role as alderwoman, but there could be a steep learning curve.
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I love the debate here. It shows an involved voting populace. My worry is the general electorate in the city isn’t as engaged. Will the white people just vote for the white candidate and the black people just vote for the black candidate ? I’ll be interested to see those results.
I've heard this from some officials. Even some who had very low expectations for Jones but were won over by her.billikens&bricks wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I had a much longer answer, but looks like it didn't post.SB in BH wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025Can someone give me a positive case for a Spencer admin without referencing Jones, Slay, misc. billionaires or the SLBJ, or "progressive," "moderate," etc.?
I don't see much daylight between them in terms of actual policy, or any tangible reason to think Spencer would be a better administrator than Jones. What are the actual differences besides race, geography, and family baggage?
Short answer because I don't want to retype everything: I think Jones' ability as an administrator may set her apart more than anything else. I'd be very concerned about Spencer's abilities in this particular area. I imagine some things are transferrable from her role as alderwoman, but there could be a steep learning curve.
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I've definitely been impressed by Jones. She inherited a city that was a mess in many ways after Slay and Krewson, but she also received lots of federal funds. Within that context, I think she has done a good job of balancing pragmatism and ambition (for example, the 911 call center and pushing the development of a new land use plan).Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I've heard this from some officials. Even some who had very low expectations for Jones but were won over by her.billikens&bricks wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I had a much longer answer, but looks like it didn't post.SB in BH wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025Can someone give me a positive case for a Spencer admin without referencing Jones, Slay, misc. billionaires or the SLBJ, or "progressive," "moderate," etc.?
I don't see much daylight between them in terms of actual policy, or any tangible reason to think Spencer would be a better administrator than Jones. What are the actual differences besides race, geography, and family baggage?
Short answer because I don't want to retype everything: I think Jones' ability as an administrator may set her apart more than anything else. I'd be very concerned about Spencer's abilities in this particular area. I imagine some things are transferrable from her role as alderwoman, but there could be a steep learning curve.
Its nothing against Spencer really, I just don't think people appreciate enough how much Jones has been able to accomplish - its no small feat. Its also no guarantee that things will continue without her in that role.
My assessment as well.billikens&bricks wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I've definitely been impressed by Jones. She inherited a city that was a mess in many ways after Slay and Krewson, but she also received lots of federal funds. Within that context, I think she has done a good job of balancing pragmatism and ambition (for example, the 911 call center and pushing the development of a new land use plan).Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I've heard this from some officials. Even some who had very low expectations for Jones but were won over by her.billikens&bricks wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I had a much longer answer, but looks like it didn't post.
Short answer because I don't want to retype everything: I think Jones' ability as an administrator may set her apart more than anything else. I'd be very concerned about Spencer's abilities in this particular area. I imagine some things are transferrable from her role as alderwoman, but there could be a steep learning curve.
Its nothing against Spencer really, I just don't think people appreciate enough how much Jones has been able to accomplish - its no small feat. Its also no guarantee that things will continue without her in that role.
I think the criticisms regarding prioritizing her ambassador duties (i.e., travel) over her administrative duties are totally fair but largely overblown (with the exceptions of the Snow debacle and the City Justice Center, two significant failures from my perspective).
She's made monumental strides on basic government reforms (land use and traffic plans; police CBA and policing reforms; new emergency dispatch, personnel management, and payroll systems) that the prior 4 (or more) admins at-best ignored. She's achieved these things by successfully navigating the byzantine governance structure of the City (as evidenced by the discussion upthread of Dept. Directors v. Commissioners), which prior Admins either couldn't or wouldn't do.
She's also done, I think, a commendable job on involving the public (and not just our corporate overlords, to the chagrin of GSL, etc.) on major spending decisions related to ARPA and Ram's money and managing those funds according to those priorities (acknowledging a couple early missteps).
While her major policies and programs (e.g., policing reforms and now child-care subsidies) are Capital-P "Progressive," she's run them in a small-c "conservative" manner, i.e., modest pilot programs that are either expanded or jettisoned depending on performance.
Could Spencer have done better? Perhaps, but again I see no particular reason to think so. Happy to be educated otherwise.
This is pretty much my exact position. I don't have anything against Spencer and I don't think she'd be a bad mayor if she wins. But this entire campaign has been so bad faith and so much more moderate than her 2021 campaign, it's just shocking. She's also done nothing to prove that she'd be a *better* mayor than what Jones has been.billikens&bricks wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I've definitely been impressed by Jones. She inherited a city that was a mess in many ways after Slay and Krewson, but she also received lots of federal funds. Within that context, I think she has done a good job of balancing pragmatism and ambition (for example, the 911 call center and pushing the development of a new land use plan).Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I've heard this from some officials. Even some who had very low expectations for Jones but were won over by her.billikens&bricks wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I had a much longer answer, but looks like it didn't post.
Short answer because I don't want to retype everything: I think Jones' ability as an administrator may set her apart more than anything else. I'd be very concerned about Spencer's abilities in this particular area. I imagine some things are transferrable from her role as alderwoman, but there could be a steep learning curve.
Its nothing against Spencer really, I just don't think people appreciate enough how much Jones has been able to accomplish - its no small feat. Its also no guarantee that things will continue without her in that role.
I was actually opposed to Jones in 2021. But I cannot deny the reality that the city is looking up under her.
I will add, Jones's success has come against the backdrop of completely anti-City MO government and an absolute basket case of a County government. If she can mend her bridges with the aforementioned corporate overlords (excluding shitheels like Clark), then she could be truly transformational if given a second term.
County is going through its Slay eraSB in BH wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I will add, Jones's success has come against the backdrop of completely anti-City MO government and an absolute basket case of a County government. If she can mend her bridges with the aforementioned corporate overlords (excluding shitheels like Clark), then she could be truly transformational if given a second term.
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When I contacted Spencer about an overflowing construction dumpster on my block last week it was gone within hours.
No excuses. No grand theories on how removing it would be something that would be done during the Slay era so we cant do that now.
It was gone.
I get that isn't as sexy to some of you urbanist academics but that's what people vote on.
Now I'm just gonna grab my coffee and sit back for the inevitable condescending insults headed my way.
No excuses. No grand theories on how removing it would be something that would be done during the Slay era so we cant do that now.
It was gone.
I get that isn't as sexy to some of you urbanist academics but that's what people vote on.
Now I'm just gonna grab my coffee and sit back for the inevitable condescending insults headed my way.
None needed. You do it to yourself.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025When I contacted Spencer about an overflowing construction dumpster on my block last week it was gone within hours.
No excuses. No grand theories on how removing it would be something that would be done during the Slay era so we cant do that now.
It was gone.
I get that isn't as sexy to some of you urbanist academics but that's what people vote on.
Now I'm just gonna grab my coffee and sit back for the inevitable condescending insults headed my way.
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So, uh, the Mayor is not an alderman.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025When I contacted Spencer about an overflowing construction dumpster on my block last week it was gone within hours.
No excuses. No grand theories on how removing it would be something that would be done during the Slay era so we cant do that now.
It was gone.
I get that isn't as sexy to some of you urbanist academics but that's what people vote on.
Now I'm just gonna grab my coffee and sit back for the inevitable condescending insults headed my way.
And please insult me for being an “academic”. The origins of this type of attack is rooted in European anti-Semitism and fascism. Happy to stand my ground against the fascists.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism
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I knew I wouldn't have to wait long.
Seriously though. Is pointing out what voters would like to see in a public official so gauche that it should elicit that kind of response?
Please feel free to insist to voters that Jones doesn't have to respond to their concerns. Let's see how that pans out.
Seriously though. Is pointing out what voters would like to see in a public official so gauche that it should elicit that kind of response?
Please feel free to insist to voters that Jones doesn't have to respond to their concerns. Let's see how that pans out.
I think you condescend yourself by completely ignoring all the comprehensive points being made by myself and others over the past couple of hours and instead bring up some anecdotal story that you can't prove as your reason for why you won't be supporting Jones.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I knew I wouldn't have to wait long.
Seriously though. Is pointing out what voters would like to see in a public official so gauche that it should elicit that kind of response?
Please feel free to insist to voters that Jones doesn't have to respond to their concerns. Let's see how that pans out.
You can't make an argument and it's so funny.
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Also, you’re supposed to call your neighborhood improvement specialist with these types of gripes. Stop bugging your alderman with trivial sh*t. Because I guaranty you that Cara just forwarded your email to James Simpson.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I knew I wouldn't have to wait long.
Seriously though. Is pointing out what voters would like to see in a public official so gauche that it should elicit that kind of response?
Please feel free to insist to voters that Jones doesn't have to respond to their concerns. Let's see how that pans out.
Congrats, you’re now a more informed citizen.
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^again with the condescension. I had already contacted CSB multiple times and nothing was done.
- 99
So this is the exact sort of thing that I think Jones will do better than Spencer on a city-wide level. Don't get me wrong, its great that Spencer is quick to answer constituent concerns, but addressing one-off requests in a single ward is much different than administering city-wide services across multiple agencies day in and day out.Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025When I contacted Spencer about an overflowing construction dumpster on my block last week it was gone within hours.
No excuses. No grand theories on how removing it would be something that would be done during the Slay era so we cant do that now.
It was gone.
I get that isn't as sexy to some of you urbanist academics but that's what people vote on.
Now I'm just gonna grab my coffee and sit back for the inevitable condescending insults headed my way.
Not saying that Jones' track record in this regard is immaculate or that Spencer could not learn to do it well, but its fair to have concerns about Spencer's ability here imo.
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^But nothing happens in a vacuum.
The poor response to the snow and icemageddon--and late by 10 days--apology doesn't speak well to her "administrating services citywide"
The poor response to the snow and icemageddon--and late by 10 days--apology doesn't speak well to her "administrating services citywide"
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I think you could make an equally comprehensive list of reasons why Tishaura has not earned reelection. I am not a hater either- I think TJ has stood for some good things and has some great qualities, but let's be real-- nobody paying attention who cares enough would ever say the past four years have been awesome for the city. Yeah, yeah, crime is down but that's consistent with a nationwide trend so it's a little disingenuous to suggest that's a direct result of good mayoral policy. That said, I do think Tishaura has every right to tout that as a major success of her administration because crime rates could have just as well increased or remained stagnant over the same period, as they have in a few cities. So that is fair.
What really is not fair is insulting the intelligence of the MANY people who are choosing to support Cara Spencer in this race by calling them uninformed or stupid or "don't know what's good for them" for thinking TJ has failed to meet the moment. Does it mean a Mayor Spencer would be any guarantee that things would be better? Of course not. But Cara is a competent and experienced multi-time elected official who has earned the respect of many people from different backgrounds, and from my personal and professional experience with her, Cara has always been very responsive and her work has yielded tangible positive results more often than not. So to me, she deserves a shot.
What really is not fair is insulting the intelligence of the MANY people who are choosing to support Cara Spencer in this race by calling them uninformed or stupid or "don't know what's good for them" for thinking TJ has failed to meet the moment. Does it mean a Mayor Spencer would be any guarantee that things would be better? Of course not. But Cara is a competent and experienced multi-time elected official who has earned the respect of many people from different backgrounds, and from my personal and professional experience with her, Cara has always been very responsive and her work has yielded tangible positive results more often than not. So to me, she deserves a shot.
"Is it a gurnatee that Spencer will be better? Of course not."jivecitystl wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025I think you could make an equally comprehensive list of reasons why Tishaura has not earned reelection. I am not a hater either- I think TJ has stood for some good things and has some great qualities, but let's be real-- nobody paying attention who cares enough would never say the past four years have been awesome for the city. Yeah, yeah, crime is down but that's consistent with a nationwide trend so it's a little disingenuous to suggest that's a direct result of good mayoral policy. That said, I do think Tishaura has every right to tout that as a major success of her administration because crime rates could have just as well increased or remained stagnant over the same period, as they have in a few cities. So that is fair.
What really is not fair is insulting the intelligence of the MANY people who are choosing to support Cara Spencer in this race by calling them uninformed or stupid or "don't know what's good for them" for thinking TJ has failed to meet the moment. Does it mean a Mayor Spencer would be any guarantee that things would be better? Of course not. But Cara is a competent and experienced multi-time elected official who has earned the respect of many people from different backgrounds, and from my personal and professional experience with her, Cara has always been very responsive and her work has yielded tangible positive results more often than not. So to me, she deserves a shot.
Enough said. Thanks for making my case.
And I'm literally waiting for this comprehensive list of reasons why Jones should not be re-elected and why Spencer should be elected. I've provided multiple comprehensive reasons and explanations, others have too, we have cited the actual data for our positions.....yet none of you engage it. So what am I supposed to think exactly?
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The Post-Dispatch has done a decent job documenting the missteps of the current administration. You can pan it all you want, most people I know consider that to be pretty credible. I do not feel any need whatsoever to list the reasons because I have no desire to try to convince people to agree with me. You pick the candidate you think is best and so does everyone else. And that should be okay without being called stupid or ignorant. No one has crowned you king, I could say the same thing about you couldn't I?
"Is it a guarnatee that Spencer will be better? Of course not."
'Enough said. Thanks for making my case.'"
Do better than this. There's no guarantee that TJ would do any better in a second term, but we have her first term on which to base an informed opinion, and sorry, the majority of people I know in the city don't think she delivered.
"Is it a guarnatee that Spencer will be better? Of course not."
'Enough said. Thanks for making my case.'"
Do better than this. There's no guarantee that TJ would do any better in a second term, but we have her first term on which to base an informed opinion, and sorry, the majority of people I know in the city don't think she delivered.
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bullsh*t!jivecitystl wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025Yeah, yeah, crime is down but that's consistent with a nationwide trend so it's a little disingenuous to suggest that's a direct result of good mayoral policy.
Our drop in homicides since 2020 far exceeds the national drop over that time. And that drop is indeed directly attributable to the Mayor’s initiatives enacted in the teeth copagandist objections.
Show Me Peace has been remarkably successful in interceding in feuds to prevent violence.
She’s done excellent work diverting mental health crises to people who can actually help and getting that work out of the hands of the cops.
She’s fixed the 911 response times.
She’s built connections with community groups and governments across the region to implement a regional crime prevention strategy.
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There is a lot to unpack here.jivecitystl wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025TJ's campaign tactic is now gaslighting people into thinking their lives are better now when they aren't?Stick to that line because this is the best I've heard in a while. "St. Louisans, you are so stupid! You are fools! Tishaura's people know better than you do about what makes your life better. Your eyes and ears don't work." Lol!
You guys are for sure working for Spencer's campaign because you're making this way too easy for her. "But Bob Clark!"
Billionaires issuing retribution checks isn’t amusing to most voters.
Is life better today than it was in 2021 when COVID was still a major issue? Absolutely.
Have some long-standing city service issues improved? Yes. Trash pickup has been a decade-long problem, but the city is now consistently covering 90-95% of routes. This was significantly worse when the current administration took office during the pandemic.
911 response times have also improved. When the administration began, only 55-60% of calls were answered within 10 seconds. Now, that number is 88%—almost reaching the 90% national standard.
spending in the City continues to rise, the best-paying jobs in the state are located in the city, and downtown spending is also increasing.
For years, discussions about Millennium have gone nowhere, but now, multiple proposals are on the table, thanks to the administration’s efforts to make it happen.
The AT&T project has been stalled for a decade, but now there’s an actionable proposal.
The railway has been a topic of discussion for over 20 years. The administration led the charge to move it forward.
Violent crime is at its lowest level in 55 years, both in raw numbers and per capita.
Some initiatives may not be a priority for most voters today, but they are critical for future growth, especially for planners and developers. Updating the zoning code? This administration did it. Updating the land use plan? This administration did it. Developing the city’s first-ever transportation plan? This administration did that, too.
A total of $300 million has been committed between the city and partner agencies for roadway improvements.
Gaslighting is pretending none of this progress has happened.
Gaslighting is also pretending that Cara has any experience leading an organization of this scale. The current mayor previously led a citywide office and served as a state representative.
It’s pretty clear that the Spencer campaign has been going negative but the issue with going negative now is that you still have to win again vs the same opponent in April, jones campaign from what I see has barely thrown a jab at Spencer yet but boy will the dam break in that month between March and April and we’ll see how ill-tempered Spencer handles it
I’m going to guess this is very very low on what voters care about. By now most probably know who they are voting for and those who are on the fence probably have at least a handful, or two, of issues they care about that are higher on the list than who is donating to who. I’d guess it doesn’t move the needle. They care about city services, jobs, crime, etc. and will vote according to whichever they like better in those regards.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jan 29, 2025Billionaires issuing retribution checks isn’t amusing to most voters.
Since things for the most part seem to be improving I am guessing Jones wins but the snow removal issue, and other issues that came along with it, probably shrinks her margin a bit, at least in the primary. By April something else will dominate the news cycle