why not A or A- or A+ for the city?Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025I would give a B or low B+ for the city. MoDOT gets a D+ or low C-. County gets a B+ or low A-.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Mayor Jones gives the city a “B Minus” grade on the snowstorm response.
A lot of folks on this thread are acting like it was either an “F” or a “A+”, but I agree with Tishaura’s assessment. There is room for improvement and the storm definitely had a serious impact on many residents and business, but I can’t expect an A+ response to a a once in a decade storm.
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Their response to the public was pretty abysmal in the first week and there definitely were certain secondary routes that were not properly plowed for too long.stlurbanist wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025why not A or A- or A+ for the city?Auggie wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025I would give a B or low B+ for the city. MoDOT gets a D+ or low C-. County gets a B+ or low A-.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 23, 2025Mayor Jones gives the city a “B Minus” grade on the snowstorm response.
A lot of folks on this thread are acting like it was either an “F” or a “A+”, but I agree with Tishaura’s assessment. There is room for improvement and the storm definitely had a serious impact on many residents and business, but I can’t expect an A+ response to a a once in a decade storm.
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So apparently the Mayor's B- comment was from 11 days ago and says she'd give an incomplete now.
In terms of performance, while I think Streets did a decent job in the first couple days getting the mains in passable shape, it deteriorated after that. It should have essentially completed the existing policy by the end of the first week (getting to Hill routes and clearing out some of the abrupt lane closures on mains, etc.) and recognized by the end of the first week that it had to go beyond the existing policy and get to side streets.
But I think what elevates things to essentially a scandal is the Street Director's claim that staff were misleading her about what was being done. If true, that's horrible. As is the Director being so out of touch of what was actually being done. (And do we not have GPS?) Anyway, there needs to be a public accounting for what the truth is here as well as accountability.
In terms of the Mayor's office messaging, I think sticking to "we fell short and here's what we're learning and how we'll change policy for the future" is the way to go. It's done that a bit and should stay with it.
In terms of performance, while I think Streets did a decent job in the first couple days getting the mains in passable shape, it deteriorated after that. It should have essentially completed the existing policy by the end of the first week (getting to Hill routes and clearing out some of the abrupt lane closures on mains, etc.) and recognized by the end of the first week that it had to go beyond the existing policy and get to side streets.
But I think what elevates things to essentially a scandal is the Street Director's claim that staff were misleading her about what was being done. If true, that's horrible. As is the Director being so out of touch of what was actually being done. (And do we not have GPS?) Anyway, there needs to be a public accounting for what the truth is here as well as accountability.
In terms of the Mayor's office messaging, I think sticking to "we fell short and here's what we're learning and how we'll change policy for the future" is the way to go. It's done that a bit and should stay with it.
Day 20
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Dude, you can buy a shovel. You can talk to your neighbors about going in on a snow blower. There are options.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 24, 2025Day 20
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It’s is annoying to keep posting pictures of icy sidewalks. Agreed that it is on homeowners to shovel. At the same time, I think it’s a worthy discussion to have on what we may be able to do next time we have a particularly icy storm, as it relates to pedestrians.
More informs/education to get people to shovel sidewalks. Perhaps some coordination from the city to shovel around bus stops, cross walks, etc.
It’s not going to be perfect, but I’d like to do better for pedestrians, particularly elderly and disabled.
More informs/education to get people to shovel sidewalks. Perhaps some coordination from the city to shovel around bus stops, cross walks, etc.
It’s not going to be perfect, but I’d like to do better for pedestrians, particularly elderly and disabled.
Some people think they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit if they shovel. Seems like an excuse not to do something they don't want to do to me.
Sidewalks cleared the first week have been dry ever since. Those that didn't get touched are ice,, unless the sun melted it.
Sidewalks cleared the first week have been dry ever since. Those that didn't get touched are ice,, unless the sun melted it.
While plenty of people are just lazy, let's also remember that there are many people who are physically unable to safely shovel snow and ice themselves. Anyone who shoveled over the past few weeks should appreciate that. It's not light work.
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^So get a program to help those people get their sidewalks shoveled. The state of our pedestrian infrastructure is beyond ridiculous. If it's the homeowners responsibility then there should be consequences for irresponsible actions. And those not able should have aid available. Hopefully this problem will magically disappear soon, but it's a very real problem. And it should never have been allowed to go this long. It's the city's responsibility to make sure infrastructure is taken care of, and sidewalks are infrastructure.
Okay. I'll quit complaining for a bit, but . . . I'm cold and tired of this mess.
Okay. I'll quit complaining for a bit, but . . . I'm cold and tired of this mess.
I'm gonna ask again:
Does the ADA have any specific language addressing sidewalk clearance after a snow/ice event? I mean, the whole point of the law is to make sidewalks accessible for those with mobility issues. Is there a time-frame after which the walks need to be cleared? Can homeowners by cited for failure to clear the walks? Is the government somehow obligated to provide alternate transportation for those effected?
Etc., etc.,
Does the ADA have any specific language addressing sidewalk clearance after a snow/ice event? I mean, the whole point of the law is to make sidewalks accessible for those with mobility issues. Is there a time-frame after which the walks need to be cleared? Can homeowners by cited for failure to clear the walks? Is the government somehow obligated to provide alternate transportation for those effected?
Etc., etc.,
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I’m fairly certain plaintiffs are limited equitable relief under the ADA. Meaning the best they can do is get a court order requiring the defendant property owner to fix the inaccessibility issue. By the time an ADA lawsuit for icy sidewalks could be put in front of a judge to be ruled on, the issue would be moot because the ice would have melted.framer wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2025I'm gonna ask again:
Does the ADA have any specific language addressing sidewalk clearance after a snow/ice event? I mean, the whole point of the law is to make sidewalks accessible for those with mobility issues. Is there a time-frame after which the walks need to be cleared? Can homeowners by cited for failure to clear the walks? Is the government somehow obligated to provide alternate transportation for those effected?
Etc., etc.,
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^ I believe ADA requires public accomodations to be cleared and accessible within a reasonable timeframe but I don't think it's exactly spelled out what that is. Homeowners don't fall under the ADA, but property owners in St. Louis City and many others are required to clear their sidewalks but I'm not aware of any real enforcement. Maybe in places like Clayton.
Edit: I'll also add that if a city's failure to address snow removal at public accomodations, it may add to larger ADA claims against it. Here's an interesting piece about Pekin, which entered into a consent decree. https://www.wcbu.org/local-news/2022-05 ... complaints
Edit: I'll also add that if a city's failure to address snow removal at public accomodations, it may add to larger ADA claims against it. Here's an interesting piece about Pekin, which entered into a consent decree. https://www.wcbu.org/local-news/2022-05 ... complaints
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Sure but by the time you could get it in front of the judge the problem wouldn’t exist anymore. And you can’t sue for monetary damages under the ADA.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Jan 25, 2025^ I believe ADA requires public accomodations to be cleared and accessible within a reasonable timeframe but I don't think it's exactly spelled out what that is. Homeowners don't fall under the ADA, but property owners in St. Louis City and many others are required to clear their sidewalks but I'm not aware of any real enforcement. Maybe in places like Clayton.
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According the article, the lawsuit, which is mostly about overt violations like old-school curbs at cross walks, required the city to enact an ordinance requiring residence to clear sidewalks.
Do we have such an ordinance? If not maybe there is an opportunity. But the scope of the issues in Pekin were much larger than just icy sidewalks. Likely creating far more motivated litigants.
I know everyone is hot and bothered by this but it’s going to be a distant memory soon. Will you have litigants motivated by sidewalk ice removal in six months when it’s 90 every day?
EDIT: I am 100% in favor of an ordinance ticketing people who don’t shovel their sidewalks. Put it under the supervision of the meter maids.
Do we have such an ordinance? If not maybe there is an opportunity. But the scope of the issues in Pekin were much larger than just icy sidewalks. Likely creating far more motivated litigants.
I know everyone is hot and bothered by this but it’s going to be a distant memory soon. Will you have litigants motivated by sidewalk ice removal in six months when it’s 90 every day?
EDIT: I am 100% in favor of an ordinance ticketing people who don’t shovel their sidewalks. Put it under the supervision of the meter maids.
St. Louis
Richmond Heights
- 11.18.210 - Snow removal.
After any fall of snow, owners, managers, agents or occupiers of any premises shall cause the snow to be immediately removed from the improved area of the sidewalk in the public street adjacent to such premises, and the improved area of the sidewalk shall also be kept clear of ice at all times. If no part of the sidewalk area be improved, then a lane five feet wide in the sidewalk area shall be kept free from snow and ice at all times. Where structures contain six or more units, it shall be the duty of the owner or agent of the owner to comply with this provision. Where structures contain between one and six units, it shall be the duty of the person occupying the units nearest the public street, as well as the owner or agent of the owner, involved to comply with the requirements of this section.
(1960 C., § 805.210; 1994 C., § 11.18.210; Ord. No. 56726, § 1(part), 1974.)
https://ecode360.com/28312045#28312045Such person shall remove snow, sleet or ice from the sidewalks adjoining the property within twenty-four (24) hours after the snow, sleet or ice has accumulated.
Refuse came through and picked up excess trash outside of dumpsters.
Day 21: getting some merciful melt today, but there are still many treacherous spots. It's going to be a while for areas in the shade.
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Two weeks later.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 12, 2025How are other grocery stores? DGAF at the Schmucks in Richmond Heights.
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What I found out during this snow storm is how many stores honestly don't care about their pedestrian customers.
I've walked around Kingshighway a few times in south city the past few weeks, and all the auto-centric stores are a blight to humanity. None of them shovel their sidewalks.
I've walked around Kingshighway a few times in south city the past few weeks, and all the auto-centric stores are a blight to humanity. None of them shovel their sidewalks.