Watch the party the small government and less taxes vote down this tax break
Well gov't shouldn't pick winners and losers you see, unless the winners are benefiting from highway construction of course.
- 9,566
Can you tell when the fans gave up on the Cardinals season in 63102
Anthem Health, which last December announced its adding 250 jobs to its Downwest West office is leaving Downtown West next year......for Downtown and going next to the Gateway Arch at the Deloitte Building at 100 S. 4th Street. This is actually a good move, it strengthens the CDB office core, while Downtown West transitions to sports with City Park/Enterprise, entertainment with Union Station/Stifel and residential with 600-700 new apartments coming next year to go along with the 700 added in the last 18 months in the area
- 1,797
This is good news. I was beginning to worry about the Deloitte building with Polsinelli’s departure
- 1,642
People are definitely loving large health insurance companies right now.
- 144
Was Downtown for the first time in two years today. I'm sure all you locals and regular visitors see all the same sh*t I did so you can scroll past if long posts aren't your thing. Purely anecdotal takes but it was not as bad as I feared and I'm not trying to be blindly optimistic.
The Arch is a magnet for foot traffic. BPV also very steady for a slow Sunday in December. Great screens for watching red zone if you are into that sort of thing. The Arch and BPV far and away the best things about Downtown just now. Sooner those surface lots at BPV are build out the better and I think it'll spill over to the surrounding area. Salt and Smoke was decent and holds it's own v most KC and STL BBQ IMO.
Small thing but I like the branding on various office buildings that's new or updated. Shows that these buildings do have activity and there is a corporate presence downtown.
My biggest positive observation however was to the naked eye at least there was nowhere near the numbers of panhandlers as social media would have you believe and yet this is held up as one of the major reasons businesses don't want to be Downtown. I just didn't see it. My worst issue was the streets between Market and Washington were still as grotty and dug up as they were last time I visited. The casino looks tired but maybe the arrival of sports betting will give it a shot in the arm..
Btw heading back to KC that 270/64 corridor is ***** depressing with a grossly excessive amount of unnecessary suburban office space. Edward Jones is such a ***** waste there and my God Rawlings out there at Westport is such a missed opportunity. I drove past Chesterfield Mall too and I dread to see what damage that does. That should be nothing but outparcels and 5 over 1 sticks, not vertical development. Clayton is ***** depressing and as someone who has worked in big urban centers like Chicago and enjoys the live, work, play aspect, nothing appeals there at all to me bar convenience. Is convenience all the local corporate community cares about? The big guns need to get their finger out of their ass and back the likes of BPV and the AT&T building.
The Arch is a magnet for foot traffic. BPV also very steady for a slow Sunday in December. Great screens for watching red zone if you are into that sort of thing. The Arch and BPV far and away the best things about Downtown just now. Sooner those surface lots at BPV are build out the better and I think it'll spill over to the surrounding area. Salt and Smoke was decent and holds it's own v most KC and STL BBQ IMO.
Small thing but I like the branding on various office buildings that's new or updated. Shows that these buildings do have activity and there is a corporate presence downtown.
My biggest positive observation however was to the naked eye at least there was nowhere near the numbers of panhandlers as social media would have you believe and yet this is held up as one of the major reasons businesses don't want to be Downtown. I just didn't see it. My worst issue was the streets between Market and Washington were still as grotty and dug up as they were last time I visited. The casino looks tired but maybe the arrival of sports betting will give it a shot in the arm..
Btw heading back to KC that 270/64 corridor is ***** depressing with a grossly excessive amount of unnecessary suburban office space. Edward Jones is such a ***** waste there and my God Rawlings out there at Westport is such a missed opportunity. I drove past Chesterfield Mall too and I dread to see what damage that does. That should be nothing but outparcels and 5 over 1 sticks, not vertical development. Clayton is ***** depressing and as someone who has worked in big urban centers like Chicago and enjoys the live, work, play aspect, nothing appeals there at all to me bar convenience. Is convenience all the local corporate community cares about? The big guns need to get their finger out of their ass and back the likes of BPV and the AT&T building.
This afternoon the homeless were having an extra large get together right by the Schiller Statue and park across from Stifel Theater. This included a decent sized fire when it wasn't that cold out.
Great look for the country folk leaving bull riding at Enterprise and people arriving at Stifel for a St. Louis Symphony performance.
Great look for the country folk leaving bull riding at Enterprise and people arriving at Stifel for a St. Louis Symphony performance.
Some are and some aren't. The people coming and going from these groups in cars is always telling.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2024^ none of those people are homeless.
Even worse was watching the police finishing working at Enterprise just get in their cars and do nothing about the fire.
- 2,634
Was in Omaha this weekend and wow is their Downtown/Old Market area alive. 8pm on a 47 degree Saturday night and the streets were packed with people. The Gene Leahy Mall (their version of the Gateway Mall that is way better) was packed with people just hanging out and enjoying themselves, like to the density of a busy day at the STL Zoo. Old Market retail establishments were all open until 9-10pm and were full of customers. Didn't seem like there was any specific programming that was drawing people either, outside of the Christmas lights on all the trees. It just seemed like it was the place to go.
Obviously Omaha is a far more unipolar city. Old Market doesn't have to compete with an Old Town Saint Charles, CWE, or a dozen other hotspots. I just wish Downtown STL could see this level of activity EVER.
Props to Omaha. They have created a place that feels truly special. This is exactly what people are talking about when they discuss a place having "the energy"
Obviously Omaha is a far more unipolar city. Old Market doesn't have to compete with an Old Town Saint Charles, CWE, or a dozen other hotspots. I just wish Downtown STL could see this level of activity EVER.
Props to Omaha. They have created a place that feels truly special. This is exactly what people are talking about when they discuss a place having "the energy"
- 927
Yea, Wash Ave/Landing should have the amount of retail and street life that Old Market in Omaha has but it does not. I do agree they have a more retail in that few block area than it feels like in our entire downtown.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2024Was in Omaha this weekend and wow is their Downtown/Old Market area alive. 8pm on a 47 degree Saturday night and the streets were packed with people. The Gene Leahy Mall (their version of the Gateway Mall that is way better) was packed with people just hanging out and enjoying themselves, like to the density of a busy day at the STL Zoo. Old Market retail establishments were all open until 9-10pm and were full of customers. Didn't seem like there was any specific programming that was drawing people either, outside of the Christmas lights on all the trees. It just seemed like it was the place to go.
Obviously Omaha is a far more unipolar city. Old Market doesn't have to compete with an Old Town Saint Charles, CWE, or a dozen other hotspots. I just wish Downtown STL could see this level of activity EVER.
Props to Omaha. They have created a place that feels truly special. This is exactly what people are talking about when they discuss a place having "the energy"
Going to throw the challenge flag on the Gene Leahy mall being “way better.” It is much smaller than the footprint of the Gateway Mall, does not lead to an Arch type attraction, and doesn’t have a space as nice as City Garden. Nowhere along the Gene Leahy do you have the view from the perspective behind the Keiner fountain to the old courthouse and arch. Gene Leahy is brand new, so yea it looks a little fresher. They do attract a few food trucks out there along it, which would be a good thing for STL to try to attract more frequently. The Gateway Mall needs more amenities, especially on its western plots and honestly just needs more people. And we need to improve the street activity facing the gateway mall, which Gene Leahy doesn’t have much of either.
- 2,634
The amenities are the real game changer for the GLM:
- Dog Park
- Public Art
- Fire Pits
- SOOOO much seating
- Hillside slides
- Skate ribbon
- River Overlook
- Extremely high quality playgrounds
- Year round restrooms
- Boccee Ball
- Horse Shoes (the only thing I saw that wasn't being used)
- Swing benches (every single one was being used)
- Fountains
- Band shell
- Sand Volleyball
- A MARINA
- 927
That is a lot of amenities. I did notice they had tons of seating and people like the swings.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2024The amenities are the real game changer for the GLM:I'm sure I am missing plenty. Fortunately the Gateway Mall has plenty of room to expand its amenity base. The real shame is that the Arch Grounds redo didn't do much to address this. Most of the grounds are still pretty sterile
- Dog Park
- Public Art
- Fire Pits
- SOOOO much seating
- Hillside slides
- Skate ribbon
- River Overlook
- Extremely high quality playgrounds
- Year round restrooms
- Boccee Ball
- Horse Shoes (the only thing I saw that wasn't being used)
- Swing benches (every single one was being used)
- Fountains
- Band shell
- Sand Volleyball
- A MARINA
And like you said, you could fit every one of those things that you listed in the Gateway Mall. All the spaces west of City Garden could add so much more. I am surprised that a robust vision has not been brought back up under the current administration yet. We could add the recreational activity spaces you note pretty easily I think.
- 144
Yeah DT Omaha is in rude health for it's size. Got a massive new tower going up too.
The one that makes me laugh is when KC folk mock DT STL. Downtown Kansas City has no foot traffic at all. Both KC and STL are not vibrant compared to other cities nationwide, but people there genuinely think it's some sort of upcoming place. I guess when you aren't travelled beyond Topeka or Springfield you would think it's booming.
The one that makes me laugh is when KC folk mock DT STL. Downtown Kansas City has no foot traffic at all. Both KC and STL are not vibrant compared to other cities nationwide, but people there genuinely think it's some sort of upcoming place. I guess when you aren't travelled beyond Topeka or Springfield you would think it's booming.
I have been to KC and have enjoyed myself but I admit I don't have a strong feeling or impression one way or another about their downtown. They are likely similar to us. But, apart from needless trash talking, I do think there is something to be said for attitude. It seems that people in KC take a more "boosterish" attitude towards their city, and all else being equal, I'd rather see that out of St. Louis than the "woe is us" approach we so often see here.
- 3,767
We used to have that MUCH more boosterism than we do now. At this time, everyone is very eager to take shots at Downtown and make sure to mention crime. DT has become the region's punching bag. I can remember KC people wondering how they can get to the same level of St. Louis boosterism we had back in the day. I think sports helps unite a region. During the Cardinals glory days, people were very proud. KC is living it up with a SB championships, NFL Draft, World Cup games, the Taylor Swift effect and a general push to improve their downtown. It's no wonder they have so much boosterism and development coming Downtown.stlokc wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2024I have been to KC and have enjoyed myself but I admit I don't have a strong feeling or impression one way or another about their downtown. They are likely similar to us. But, apart from needless trash talking, I do think there is something to be said for attitude. It seems that people in KC take a more "boosterish" attitude towards their city, and all else being equal, I'd rather see that out of St. Louis than the "woe is us" approach we so often see here.
The Cards have sucked, covid killed downtown office traffic, the vandals and vagrants came in painted up the business district and AirBNB parties caused tons of crime and bad PR. We need to quit having high profile crimes in the City. Random people taking a bullet on the interstate just feed the negative narratives and perception. Not sure if true, but I've also heard younger generations are no longer flocking to the big city, unlike previous generations. In other words, there are ton of factors going against DT, but many in favor. It all comes down to getting people to live there and the rest will come. Might help if we fix rotting infrastructure, clean up trash regularly, paint over graffiti, increase police presence/visibility & focus on the basics. That is a good place to start.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -hall.html
Looks like Oliver Properties wants to add a food hall on Washington to open by Summer 2025.
Looks like Oliver Properties wants to add a food hall on Washington to open by Summer 2025.
- 927
Word of another law firm exodus to Clayton on the horizon. Not a huge one but all these little dents make a pretty dinged up car. Our industries have spread out so much from downtown, it’s hard to keep the employers all together. Wish we had a downtown that employers feel like it is a big deal to leave but the attitude I often hear is hands up, well everyone else has left.
DBLNSouthCity - Is this the big announcement you referenced a month or so ago for Wash Ave?Auggie wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2024https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -hall.html
Looks like Oliver Properties wants to add a food hall on Washington to open by Summer 2025.
Can the city explore parking a food truck on the “plaza” on 15th between Chestnut and Market? Throw down some cafe lights, seating, and plants. Seems like an easy way to activate the area.
- 9,566
One of them, more to comeSTLAPTS wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2024DBLNSouthCity - Is this the big announcement you referenced a month or so ago for Wash Ave?Auggie wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2024https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -hall.html
Looks like Oliver Properties wants to add a food hall on Washington to open by Summer 2025.
- 2,634
This thing will do crazy business during conventions. There aren't enough fast/fast casual spots left downtown.
- 927
Kind of amazing our downtown does not have a first floor retail Dunkin’ Donuts, McDonalds, Chick-fil-a,. Those places are normally hard to avoidGoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2024This thing will do crazy business during conventions. There aren't enough fast/fast casual spots left downtown.