urbanSTL

Winterfest looks great! Hopefully attendance continues to grow and more programming continues to be added in the future. Opening night crowd was really good.

This type of event shows the importance of these upcoming streetscaping projects, connecting the gateway mall to other main areas of downtown pleasantly. Plus, adding more trees would allow us to put more christmas lights up to spruce up the decor downtown around this type of event. Every street needs to inspire people to come and stay downtown.

I wish we had more retail downtown for people to shop when they come down to these type of events and those stores would spruce up storefronts for the holidays. Hopefully, the small business grant program will start make new shops come. Also, there really is no national fashion trend stores east of Central West End (mostly not east of Frontenac/Brentwood) like Lululemon, Zara (none of these), Alo, etc or even a Marshalls, TJ Maxx, etc. With the entire metro east market and north/south city, downtown should at least have a few of these “attraction” stores. The SLDC should have somebody just pitching vacant storefronts constantly to expanding chains.

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

I don't understand the people at city hall who think Downtown is anywhere close to where it should be. Do they even visit other cities? Downtown St. Louis is in the lower tier of major city downtowns and has a long way to go.

JFC you are a broken record

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

I don't understand the people at city hall who think Downtown is anywhere close to where it should be. Do they even visit other cities? Downtown St. Louis is in the lower tier of major city downtowns and has a long way to go.

JFC you are a broken record

How you like those election results? I know you're still butthurt. 

I know this has been talked about ad nauseam but downtown really would benefit from really going all in on having an amazing dining and bar scene. I know there are some awesome restaurants downtown, particularly on Wash Ave. but I can’t help to think what if downtown / DT West had some of our best restaurants and our best chefs in the restaurants that are always talked about and visited by people across the region like a Vicia, Louie, etc. Amazing restaurants and Amazing bars are destinations that get people to travel from around the region and downtown should really try to lean in and be that neighborhood that has those places.

^ I wonder how much of that is because it was actually awesome as you say or because you were a different age and going out was the thing to do. Because in 2008-2011 nothing was awesome and we were in a recession

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

I don't understand the people at city hall who think Downtown is anywhere close to where it should be. Do they even visit other cities? Downtown St. Louis is in the lower tier of major city downtowns and has a long way to go.

I don't know where you see people at City Hall acting like downtown is "anywhere close to where it should be". 

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Nov 25, 2024

New article: https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/editor ... b609b.html

Not sure of KC mayor’s tone here but he shared it.

Did the Ed Board write something analogous critical of the new downtown Chesterfield?
Or the highway projects that spread out the region?

We've had Musical Bridge, Arch grounds, the lid, Keiner Plaza, Opera House rehab, Enterprise Center rehab, Central Library rehab, new Busch stadium and BPV, new soccer stadium, convention center expansion, Union Station redo. I'm probably missing some things. Lots of investment that have had varying ROI, but would be more if the region and state were focused on supporting, supplementing instead of undermining.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

^ I wonder how much of that is because it was actually awesome as you say or because you were a different age and going out was the thing to do. Because in 2008-2011 nothing was awesome and we were in a recession

I was there till 2011.  It was still awesome.

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

I don't understand the people at city hall who think Downtown is anywhere close to where it should be. Do they even visit other cities? Downtown St. Louis is in the lower tier of major city downtowns and has a long way to go.

JFC you are a broken record

How you like those election results? I know you're still butthurt. 

Not really. I’m a highly paid white male professional. I only stand to gain from this administration and I’m looking forward to the next massive, unnecessary tax cut that’s coming my way

^ this explains why Oliver Properties is investing $50,000,000 in Wash Ave and soon announcing some pretty cool stuff

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

Winterfest looks great! Hopefully attendance continues to grow and more programming continues to be added in the future. Opening night crowd was really good.

I realized yesterday that Winterfest is open only on weekends and select days. I would not be surprised if people think that there is no attendance on weekdays - it was empty yesterday - duh!

should they turn off the lights on weekdays? @dbInSouthCity 

I think the goal is to find funding to keep it open for 37 days straight going forward.   Next year the rink will be on the grass areas, project to flatten it and add a few things goes to bid in January.    May  even see a bigger rink next year

Growth is definitely there, the morning 5k on Saturday was +50% vs last year

Auggie wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2024

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Nov 25, 2024

New article: https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/editor ... b609b.html

Not sure of KC mayor’s tone here but he shared it.

The problem with the idea that downtown's problem is that it's "car centric" is that every downtown in America is car centric, including all the "thriving" ones. Downtown STL is probably actually one of the less car centric of the bunch. Downtown's problem is entirely centered in its need to compete with multiple other office and retail markets that normal cities don't. You could have played every card correctly with downtown's "vision" and "planning" but no matter what, all the suburbs would leech away stuff that is downtown in any normal city- banks are a great example.

That is not the problem.  It is our regions slow growth.  It should be able to support both.   Every major metropolitan area has well established business centers outside of downtown as well as sprawl.  Including the thriving ones.  Minneapolis, Houston, and Dallas are ones that I can speak to.  

There is a $150,000,000 project right there at tucker and st.charles (Jeff Arms). Neighborhood demo has been there same for a long time, downtowns demo has always been in line with the city has a whole racially and economically and it’s seen billions in investment and many more to come

In terms of the Friday and Saturday night "going out" crowds, Wash Ave has definitely shifted black over the past decade. The street is definitely still a nightlife destination, just more for the black population. Unfortunately it's very difficult for black owned businesses to secure liquor licenses which certainly holds things back.

Just because the white "going out" crowd isn't hot on it these days doesn't mean it's dead.

The issues with Downtown are so frustrating because a place like Downtown Indianapolis has the exact same issues as STL, such as lots of homelessness, obnoxious drivers, and crime, but there's tons more investment into it than here. And both white and black people frequent it. Plenty of suburbanites act like it's a war zone too.

They have 2 department stores, chains like Chick fil A, Taco Bell, Five Guys, and Panera, and even stuff like a Weber Grill and Dick's Last Resort.

Have 2 new hotels getting built, including one 40 story skyscraper.

The only meaningful difference between STL and Indianapolis is that the STL region hates the city and Downtown while Downtown Indy is the only Downtown area and gets lots of tax support from way more than the inner most 62 square miles.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Nov 28, 2024

The issues with Downtown are so frustrating because a place like Downtown Indianapolis has the exact same issues as STL, such as lots of homelessness, obnoxious drivers, and crime, but there's tons more investment into it than here. And both white and black people frequent it. Plenty of suburbanites act like it's a war zone too.

They have 2 department stores, chains like Chick fil A, Taco Bell, Five Guys, and Panera, and even stuff like a Weber Grill and Dick's Last Resort.

Have 2 new hotels getting built, including one 40 story skyscraper.

The only meaningful difference between STL and Indianapolis is that the STL region hates the city and Downtown while Downtown Indy is the only Downtown area and gets lots of tax support from way more than the inner most 62 square miles.

Downtown St Louis severely underdeveloped for a region it's size. I've never seen a major city downtown neglected as much as St. Louis. From the infrastructure and lack of investment from corporate community. 

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 28, 2024

Auggie wrote: ↑

Nov 28, 2024

The issues with Downtown are so frustrating because a place like Downtown Indianapolis has the exact same issues as STL, such as lots of homelessness, obnoxious drivers, and crime, but there's tons more investment into it than here. And both white and black people frequent it. Plenty of suburbanites act like it's a war zone too.

They have 2 department stores, chains like Chick fil A, Taco Bell, Five Guys, and Panera, and even stuff like a Weber Grill and Dick's Last Resort.

Have 2 new hotels getting built, including one 40 story skyscraper.

The only meaningful difference between STL and Indianapolis is that the STL region hates the city and Downtown while Downtown Indy is the only Downtown area and gets lots of tax support from way more than the inner most 62 square miles.

Downtown St Louis severely underdeveloped for a region it's size. I've never seen a major city downtown neglected as much as St. Louis. From the infrastructure and lack of investment from corporate community. 

I think it's a direct result of the city-county divide.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Nov 29, 2024

goat314 wrote: ↑

Nov 28, 2024

Auggie wrote: ↑

Nov 28, 2024

The issues with Downtown are so frustrating because a place like Downtown Indianapolis has the exact same issues as STL, such as lots of homelessness, obnoxious drivers, and crime, but there's tons more investment into it than here. And both white and black people frequent it. Plenty of suburbanites act like it's a war zone too.

They have 2 department stores, chains like Chick fil A, Taco Bell, Five Guys, and Panera, and even stuff like a Weber Grill and Dick's Last Resort.

Have 2 new hotels getting built, including one 40 story skyscraper.

The only meaningful difference between STL and Indianapolis is that the STL region hates the city and Downtown while Downtown Indy is the only Downtown area and gets lots of tax support from way more than the inner most 62 square miles.

Downtown St Louis severely underdeveloped for a region it's size. I've never seen a major city downtown neglected as much as St. Louis. From the infrastructure and lack of investment from corporate community. 

I think it's a direct result of the city-county divide.

I would agree.