This is my hope.goat314 wrote: ↑Nov 06, 2024The transportation bill is law until 2026. So unless the Republicans prioritize reversing that law (which they probably have other priorities), I think it still has a chance if we get funding before then. My guess is that current administration will try to release the rest of the funding before the new administration takes office. I believe Metro said we would know by the end of the year if we get the funding. Either way, if the house is not under the control of Democrats we will likely be in a transit dark ages for at least another 4 years.STLAPTS wrote: ↑Nov 06, 2024I believe the funding is locked in. I am not sure but I don't think that funding can be undone.
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I sincerely hope St. Louis can get the funding for the Green Line -- and it'd be wonderful if we could get it before the end of the year, before the start of the next Trump presidency.
Either way, if we do or we do not, I think this is the last extension we can realistically entertain until sometime in the 2030s.
Either way, if we do or we do not, I think this is the last extension we can realistically entertain until sometime in the 2030s.
St. Louis could repurpose the money to smaller projects that would be locally funded. I think the fund is approaching or just exceeded $100M.
If you’re a BRT or Streetcar proponent that has been frustrated with the Green Line’s scale. This might be the chance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you’re a BRT or Streetcar proponent that has been frustrated with the Green Line’s scale. This might be the chance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I thought Bi-State already submitted to FTA for the funding allocation for the green line phase 1? I am worried about Trump and R Congress for a lot of reasons, but I don’t understand how this matters to the pool of funding that was already passed. The $91 billion has to be apportioned from 22-26.
It kills any county expansions because they lagged on getting the ball rolling and there will likely be no more funding like this for a while now but phase 1 is about whether we get the approval from FTA or not. Trump cannot just come in and prevent spending money that Congress has already apportioned. There’s clear Constitutional case law on that point. He could go to Congress and get them to rescind or transfer the funds, but the bill was bi-partisan. I don’t see how or why that would be something that would be easily done.
The goal is to get these things obligated before end of terms. Then, it is contracted and there is no going back. Maybe administration will push FTA will get these applications knowing that GOP might try to mess with these funds.
It kills any county expansions because they lagged on getting the ball rolling and there will likely be no more funding like this for a while now but phase 1 is about whether we get the approval from FTA or not. Trump cannot just come in and prevent spending money that Congress has already apportioned. There’s clear Constitutional case law on that point. He could go to Congress and get them to rescind or transfer the funds, but the bill was bi-partisan. I don’t see how or why that would be something that would be easily done.
The goal is to get these things obligated before end of terms. Then, it is contracted and there is no going back. Maybe administration will push FTA will get these applications knowing that GOP might try to mess with these funds.
I'm not worried at all about the infrastructure law getting repealed or reallocated. It would need 60 votes and some Republicans who supported it are still in the Senate. I also think Trump would rather burn political points on other things than spiting Biden's infrastructure law.
What I would be more worried about is the FTA not giving St. Louis the funds because St. Louis is a blue city and a blue district. Even then, I still doubt that would actually happen.
What I would be more worried about is the FTA not giving St. Louis the funds because St. Louis is a blue city and a blue district. Even then, I still doubt that would actually happen.
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Under the new administration we'll get twice as many trains, but they'll all say TROMP on the sides.
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I don't think Trump has a burning hatred of subways and trains and public transportation. He's from NYC. In fact, this:
“I know the subway system very well. I used to take it to Kew-Forest School, in Forest Hills, when I lived in Queens. And I’d take the subway to school,” Trump said during an interview with The New York Times, a partial transcript of which was published on Wednesday. “I used to ride between the cars.”
“[My parents] weren’t thrilled when they heard that,” Trump said. “No, they were not happy. I used to love to do that. Those were the old days.”
“Subway surfing,” as the practice of riding outside a subway car is colloquially known, is illegal in New York City; moving between cars was, however, only made illegal in 2005. Nevertheless, city residents still frequently do so—especially young people, who have begun posting their exploits on social media.
The president also touched on other transportation topics—often in a meandering way—during the wide-ranging interview.
“I think the airports are a horror show. I’ve traveled the world, I know the world,” he said. “And our airports, by the way, which are Third World airports. You look at these airports. They’re horrible. I mean, you go to Kennedy. You go to L.A.X. These airports are horrible. I’m a person that, before I was doing this, I was in Qatar and I was all over the world and I was in different places in China, and you see airports, it’s like we’re—we are Third World.”
And, in an odd segue, Trump even talked about highway medians.
“You look at the infrastructure of New York, you look at Van Wyck Expressway, you look at the medians, which, I would, you know, I’ve already got an order out — the aluminum medians—you’ve heard me talk about it,” he said. “That is the worst garbage. I think it bends by the heat, because not that many cars could possibly hit it. It’s the worst garbage. And I also think it’s dangerous because it’s a spear. And if you hit those things, they come flying apart.”
https://www.thedrive.com/news/9022/dona ... way-surfer
“I know the subway system very well. I used to take it to Kew-Forest School, in Forest Hills, when I lived in Queens. And I’d take the subway to school,” Trump said during an interview with The New York Times, a partial transcript of which was published on Wednesday. “I used to ride between the cars.”
“[My parents] weren’t thrilled when they heard that,” Trump said. “No, they were not happy. I used to love to do that. Those were the old days.”
“Subway surfing,” as the practice of riding outside a subway car is colloquially known, is illegal in New York City; moving between cars was, however, only made illegal in 2005. Nevertheless, city residents still frequently do so—especially young people, who have begun posting their exploits on social media.
The president also touched on other transportation topics—often in a meandering way—during the wide-ranging interview.
“I think the airports are a horror show. I’ve traveled the world, I know the world,” he said. “And our airports, by the way, which are Third World airports. You look at these airports. They’re horrible. I mean, you go to Kennedy. You go to L.A.X. These airports are horrible. I’m a person that, before I was doing this, I was in Qatar and I was all over the world and I was in different places in China, and you see airports, it’s like we’re—we are Third World.”
And, in an odd segue, Trump even talked about highway medians.
“You look at the infrastructure of New York, you look at Van Wyck Expressway, you look at the medians, which, I would, you know, I’ve already got an order out — the aluminum medians—you’ve heard me talk about it,” he said. “That is the worst garbage. I think it bends by the heat, because not that many cars could possibly hit it. It’s the worst garbage. And I also think it’s dangerous because it’s a spear. And if you hit those things, they come flying apart.”
https://www.thedrive.com/news/9022/dona ... way-surfer
Or you could look at what he actually did during his first term which was stall previously approved transit projects like New York/New Jersey's gateway tunnel project, try to claw back funding for other projects that had already been awarded, refuse to award funding for new projects, and redirect funding destined for transit into more road construction. Not to mention he never appointed a head of the Federal Transit Administration during that time. But I guess we should weigh all these real actions when he was actually given power against an anecdote that he used to ride the subway sometimes in his childhood.leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑Nov 07, 2024I don't think Trump has a burning hatred of subways and trains and public transportation. He's from NYC. In fact, this:
“I know the subway system very well. I used to take it to Kew-Forest School, in Forest Hills, when I lived in Queens. And I’d take the subway to school,” Trump said during an interview with The New York Times, a partial transcript of which was published on Wednesday. “I used to ride between the cars.”
“[My parents] weren’t thrilled when they heard that,” Trump said. “No, they were not happy. I used to love to do that. Those were the old days.”
“Subway surfing,” as the practice of riding outside a subway car is colloquially known, is illegal in New York City; moving between cars was, however, only made illegal in 2005. Nevertheless, city residents still frequently do so—especially young people, who have begun posting their exploits on social media.
The president also touched on other transportation topics—often in a meandering way—during the wide-ranging interview.
“I think the airports are a horror show. I’ve traveled the world, I know the world,” he said. “And our airports, by the way, which are Third World airports. You look at these airports. They’re horrible. I mean, you go to Kennedy. You go to L.A.X. These airports are horrible. I’m a person that, before I was doing this, I was in Qatar and I was all over the world and I was in different places in China, and you see airports, it’s like we’re—we are Third World.”
And, in an odd segue, Trump even talked about highway medians.
“You look at the infrastructure of New York, you look at Van Wyck Expressway, you look at the medians, which, I would, you know, I’ve already got an order out — the aluminum medians—you’ve heard me talk about it,” he said. “That is the worst garbage. I think it bends by the heat, because not that many cars could possibly hit it. It’s the worst garbage. And I also think it’s dangerous because it’s a spear. And if you hit those things, they come flying apart.”
https://www.thedrive.com/news/9022/dona ... way-surfer
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Yes I totally understand and thanks for posting. Definitely need a better team around Trump this time. Maybe Elon can chip in his two cents and suggest someone for FTA.
Specifically about n-s line, I have supported it for a decade and advocated for Jefferson alignment.
Losing my enthusiasm though. When they skipped a Russell stop which would be nearest stop to two public schools and a early childhood develop center it kind of lost me. Makes no logical sense.
Remind me, this is still an actual "train tracks" project right? While I love trains it seems like a very 19th century move. Has to be something better. Trackless trams!
The other thing is that this train would immediately become the least ridden light rail line on the planet.
Although I am in favor of making Jefferson a construction zone for 3-5 years.
About the "build it and they will come" component. Well, hasn't in STL with Metrolink. If it were to happen and people did actually come then there will probably call it "gentrification".
I would consider lower cost yet high quality and consider dedicated trackless tram system.
Ultimately, I support public transportation and trains so just go ahead and build it. Whatever
Specifically about n-s line, I have supported it for a decade and advocated for Jefferson alignment.
Losing my enthusiasm though. When they skipped a Russell stop which would be nearest stop to two public schools and a early childhood develop center it kind of lost me. Makes no logical sense.
Remind me, this is still an actual "train tracks" project right? While I love trains it seems like a very 19th century move. Has to be something better. Trackless trams!
The other thing is that this train would immediately become the least ridden light rail line on the planet.
Although I am in favor of making Jefferson a construction zone for 3-5 years.
About the "build it and they will come" component. Well, hasn't in STL with Metrolink. If it were to happen and people did actually come then there will probably call it "gentrification".
I would consider lower cost yet high quality and consider dedicated trackless tram system.
Ultimately, I support public transportation and trains so just go ahead and build it. Whatever
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I'm pretty sure the current system exceeded ridership numbers. I live along the proposed line and would definitely use it. Additional stops can come with time. But the walk to the park or gravois station wouldn't be longer than 8 minutes in either direction. Understood a shorter walk would be better but you could probably make an argument that the diagonal from any point in fox park is similar.
I think we should definitely build this line. I think the low ridership numbers are a bit of a mirage. The problem with the current system (as successful as it is) is that it doesn't link to neighborhoods. It would be foolish of us not to build this.
I am concerned the universal control the republicans will have will impact this though.
I think we should definitely build this line. I think the low ridership numbers are a bit of a mirage. The problem with the current system (as successful as it is) is that it doesn't link to neighborhoods. It would be foolish of us not to build this.
I am concerned the universal control the republicans will have will impact this though.
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Hey I'm all for it. Prefer dedicated trackless tram and I would probably just ride a bike anyway but totally all for it.
Given that Elon has actively sabatoged transit/rail projects in California and Las Vegas, I can't imagine him helping transit projects in the future either. The incoming administration is actively opposed to transit from the top down, it's not a matter of having a bad team, it's what they're actually going for.leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑Nov 07, 2024Yes I totally understand and thanks for posting. Definitely need a better team around Trump this time. Maybe Elon can chip in his two cents and suggest someone for FTA.
Yes, scrap the N-S as light rail and build out a low floor street car city only with dedicated lanes you could share with future BRT that extends into county. City if all possible could make it fare free. Of course, I think you could think of any number of North South routes in the city to work with say Broadway or say Grand Ave.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 06, 2024If you’re a BRT or Streetcar proponent that has been frustrated with the Green Line’s scale. This might be the chance
The downside, who knows if that would take another decade of studies, environmental impacts and who knows what to just get to a preliminary engineering study that would trigger Fed funding.
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Definitely do not scrap it yet. We have an alignment and we have already submitted for funding for this project. I don’t know why everyone is so ready to just scrap this and start doing something else. We have spent years on this, and we are close. There is no reason to think right now that the change in govt matters to the Green Line project specifically. It applied for funding that has already been apportioned, not future funds.dredger wrote: ↑Nov 08, 2024Yes, scrap the N-S as light rail and build out a low floor street car city only with dedicated lanes you could share with future BRT that extends into county. City if all possible could make it fare free. Of course, I think you could think of any number of North South routes in the city to work with say Broadway or say Grand Ave.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 06, 2024If you’re a BRT or Streetcar proponent that has been frustrated with the Green Line’s scale. This might be the chance
The downside, who knows if that would take another decade of studies, environmental impacts and who knows what to just get to a preliminary engineering study that would trigger Fed funding.
The new govt might give 0 fed money for transit going forward but this fed money has already happened. We need to chill out and stop scrapping projects that we have already spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on.
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It's crazy to think about how how quickly cities and transportation used to get bullt in America.
Just think, cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh nevermind the east Coast. Entire cities that we walk around nowadays were built and finished and basically done 100 years ago built by people born in the 1800s. We failed these people.
Just think, cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh nevermind the east Coast. Entire cities that we walk around nowadays were built and finished and basically done 100 years ago built by people born in the 1800s. We failed these people.
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Elon only created the idea of the Hyperloop to mess up high speed rail. He will be no friend to any kind of transit project that isn't driving or individual pods created by one of his companies
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In the old days billionaires needed transit to get their workers to the factories. If modern billionaires championed transit they'd want to build it in China.
Again, STL is not the only region with a project that needs to wrap up quickly.
“CTA In Race For Red Line Extension Funding From Feds Before Trump Takes Office”
https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/11/11 ... es-office/
“CTA In Race For Red Line Extension Funding From Feds Before Trump Takes Office”
https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/11/11 ... es-office/
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The advantage is that we did get to the spot we needed. I am still optimistic but would feel so much better if we get this approval from the feds very very soon.
The Chicago red line extension is a fiscal disaster. But as is everything Chicago does. No city gets bailed out more than Chicago. It’s pretty annoying that they have mismanagement after mismanagement and get bailed out at the expense of metro east (hurting St. Louis).
Be that as it may, some cities absolutely lost their chance at any rail transit this decade like Austin, Nashville. They each had projects that never got to the applying for federal funding phase and they are dead now.
For all the criticism we give St. Louis public transit (I try to explain this to people who praise other city transit like NY, Chi, SF, etc), amongst our actual peers, we are already ahead of most and this project can put us way ahead, especially with peers not getting theirs to the funding stage before admin change.
We can shoot decades ahead of the peers of Indy, Cincy, Austin, Nashville, KC, Columbus, San Antonio, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Buffalo and probably put us just ahead of Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Charlotte. We have had a growing job market for 30 years despite the population stagnation/decline. We can gain another big competitive advantage on the 15-35 ranked population metros with this project that could propel more economic growth and population resurgence
The Chicago red line extension is a fiscal disaster. But as is everything Chicago does. No city gets bailed out more than Chicago. It’s pretty annoying that they have mismanagement after mismanagement and get bailed out at the expense of metro east (hurting St. Louis).
Be that as it may, some cities absolutely lost their chance at any rail transit this decade like Austin, Nashville. They each had projects that never got to the applying for federal funding phase and they are dead now.
For all the criticism we give St. Louis public transit (I try to explain this to people who praise other city transit like NY, Chi, SF, etc), amongst our actual peers, we are already ahead of most and this project can put us way ahead, especially with peers not getting theirs to the funding stage before admin change.
We can shoot decades ahead of the peers of Indy, Cincy, Austin, Nashville, KC, Columbus, San Antonio, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Buffalo and probably put us just ahead of Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Charlotte. We have had a growing job market for 30 years despite the population stagnation/decline. We can gain another big competitive advantage on the 15-35 ranked population metros with this project that could propel more economic growth and population resurgence
Yes, St. Louis is actually very spoiled with our current system. It should definitely be more extensive by now, but with the fractured politics of St. Louis, it's amazing we've gotten this far. The system we currently has definitely puts us a tier above peer regions and we still take it for granted. The Green Line would be a huge asset for the region and I'm praying it makes it over the finish line. Every extension also makes the rest of the system increase it's connectivity, bringing more value to the existing alignment. Being able to live near Cherokee Street and efficiently get to the airport without using an automobile would be awesome. It sucks that we have to convince so many people in the region how big of an asset Metrolink actually is.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2024The advantage is that we did get to the spot we needed. I am still optimistic but would feel so much better if we get this approval from the feds very very soon.
The Chicago red line extension is a fiscal disaster. But as is everything Chicago does. No city gets bailed out more than Chicago. It’s pretty annoying that they have mismanagement after mismanagement and get bailed out at the expense of metro east (hurting St. Louis).
Be that as it may, some cities absolutely lost their chance at any rail transit this decade like Austin, Nashville. They each had projects that never got to the applying for federal funding phase and they are dead now.
For all the criticism we give St. Louis public transit (I try to explain this to people who praise other city transit like NY, Chi, SF, etc), amongst our actual peers, we are already ahead of most and this project can put us way ahead, especially with peers not getting theirs to the funding stage before admin change.
We can shoot decades ahead of the peers of Indy, Cincy, Austin, Nashville, KC, Columbus, San Antonio, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Buffalo and probably put us just ahead of Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Charlotte. We have had a growing job market for 30 years despite the population stagnation/decline. We can gain another big competitive advantage on the 15-35 ranked population metros with this project that could propel more economic growth and population resurgence
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Yes and future expansions are made more viable with every expansion. They can roll into each other. For instance, a south extension off the green line would make a blue line River Des Peres extension more viable and vice versa. The hardest part is getting a system off the ground which is what Austin, Nashville, Columbus, etc have faced and will continue to face if there isn’t another round passed as all of their projects hit walls.goat314 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2024Yes, St. Louis is actually very spoiled with our current system. It should definitely be more extensive by now, but with the fractured politics of St. Louis, it's amazing we've gotten this far. The system we currently has definitely puts us a tier above peer regions and we still take it for granted. The Green Line would be a huge asset for the region and I'm praying it makes it over the finish line. Every extension also makes the rest of the system increase it's connectivity, bringing more value to the existing alignment. Being able to live near Cherokee Street and efficiently get to the airport without using an automobile would be awesome. It sucks that we have to convince so many people in the region how big of an asset Metrolink actually is.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2024The advantage is that we did get to the spot we needed. I am still optimistic but would feel so much better if we get this approval from the feds very very soon.
The Chicago red line extension is a fiscal disaster. But as is everything Chicago does. No city gets bailed out more than Chicago. It’s pretty annoying that they have mismanagement after mismanagement and get bailed out at the expense of metro east (hurting St. Louis).
Be that as it may, some cities absolutely lost their chance at any rail transit this decade like Austin, Nashville. They each had projects that never got to the applying for federal funding phase and they are dead now.
For all the criticism we give St. Louis public transit (I try to explain this to people who praise other city transit like NY, Chi, SF, etc), amongst our actual peers, we are already ahead of most and this project can put us way ahead, especially with peers not getting theirs to the funding stage before admin change.
We can shoot decades ahead of the peers of Indy, Cincy, Austin, Nashville, KC, Columbus, San Antonio, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Buffalo and probably put us just ahead of Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Charlotte. We have had a growing job market for 30 years despite the population stagnation/decline. We can gain another big competitive advantage on the 15-35 ranked population metros with this project that could propel more economic growth and population resurgence
I also think people over look how much the Green line would do for Cherokee Street and the downtown/midtown boundary area. These are commercial areas with strong small business presence surrounded by a mix of stable and unstable blocks/neighborhoods. These areas could go from emerging to vibrant really quickly with this jolt in the arm.
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I've taken the metro several times this month and been great each time. Don't take the blue line often, but had need of it, and was impressed by number of students / young professionals using it to the WashU, Clayton, RH and Brentwood stations. The Forsyth station seems to be a ghost town, however, totally unused in all passes through for either boarding or departing riders.
This experience reinforces my belief the county's next line should go up 170 and out to Westport.
This experience reinforces my belief the county's next line should go up 170 and out to Westport.
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With more frequency, we would have pretty good ridership numbers on both lines. There are good crowds on it every 20 minutes but we need to get that timing down to encourage more riders and move more people per hour.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2024I've taken the metro several times this month and been great each time. Don't take the blue line often, but had need of it, and was impressed by number of students / young professionals using it to the WashU, Clayton, RH and Brentwood stations. The Forsyth station seems to be a ghost town, however, totally unused in all passes through for either boarding or departing riders.
This experience reinforces my belief the county's next line should go up 170 and out to Westport.
I’ve gotten off at Forsyth a couple times. Clayton needs some new high rises to fill in that area. Been proposals before.
The brentwood station would be more useful if it wasn’t surrounded by anti-pedestrian fare. The dirt path to promenade is comical.
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A multi-use path running along the tracks from the Brentwood Station to that little node of density on Strassner would be wildly useful
A new line north along 170 would help with frequency east of wherever they tie into the existing Blue Line if they do something similar to how they operate now (ie. as having both Red and Blue east of Forest Park means effective 10 minute headways, having the new line and existing Blue would create a similar situation). To increase ridership we also really need to increase the areas accessible using the system too. There are too many stations only accessible from one side and/or surrounded by a moat of hostile major stroads/highways. Improving existing station access and continuing to expand the system would really create a usable product.