urbanSTL

Returning to the DT Omaha v. DT StL convo. Just spend 5-10 minutes on street view comparing the two. It’s not even close and we shouldn’t even entertain these jokers who want to suggest DT Omaha can even hold a candle to DT StL.

Heartland Park and Leahy mall are pathetic compared to the Arch, Gateway Mall, soldiers memorial etc. But why shouldn’t it be? Omaha is like 1/3 the size of StL.

Funny you say that, I just spent the last 3 days in Omaha and came down with a vastly different impression than a Google street view analysis. The old market/DT was active and lively all hours of the day, a healthy police presence, diverse set of shops mixed in with a great restaurant and bar scene.  All staged on probably the nicest new urban park system I've seen in my 50 state travels.  Granted, they've dumped in an incredible amount of money, and outside of DT there isn't much neighborhood life, although that is changing. 

I understand and have preached our DT is big and has bigger bones than most, however Omaha's investment in DT and urban parks are admirable. 

Maybe Omaha but Nebraska? https://imgur.com/a/YanbZRN

Kinda related kinda not but what's the post work scene like in Clayton? Obviously Downtown has hockey and baseball games throughout the week year round plus the likes of BPV and Washington Ave but does Clayton have much of substance in terms of that sort of thing?

It has very little going on after 5:00.  Few restaurants but that’s about it.

Those restaurants probably get less visitors on daily bases after 5pm than the Arch

Suburban Sprawl wrote: ↑

Aug 25, 2024

Kinda related kinda not but what's the post work scene like in Clayton? Obviously Downtown has hockey and baseball games throughout the week year round plus the likes of BPV and Washington Ave but does Clayton have much of substance in terms of that sort of thing?

Clayton doesn’t have any entertainment venues. They throw some different street parties (wine festival, art festival, etc) throughout the year but nothing full time. So basically after happy hour you just have dinner crowds. And I don’t think any except CJ muggs, Barcelona and Bar Napoli are open past 10, even on weekends.

There is a golf simulator bar and a darts bar going in. So those will be a bit different than the current Clayton establishments.

Suburban Sprawl wrote: ↑

Aug 25, 2024

Kinda related kinda not but what's the post work scene like in Clayton? Obviously Downtown has hockey and baseball games throughout the week year round plus the likes of BPV and Washington Ave but does Clayton have much of substance in terms of that sort of thing?

Yes, Clayton is active and busy during the work hours Mon-Fri. The busiest you see it is obviously during lunch hours, when all the workers do filter out to the various offerings throughout downtown Clayton. It has returned largely to the old "hive" model. Where there are most assuredly thousands here working during the week. But those thousands are mostly relegated to their towers, until about 11a up till about 1pm. Then you see the restaurants are busy and people dressed professionally are walking about everywhere. 

Then come 4:30-6pm, the exodus begins.  Clayton is still very much that classic model of office life, with quiet evenings. 

cteclipse wrote: ↑

Aug 24, 2024

Funny you say that, I just spent the last 3 days in Omaha and came down with a vastly different impression than a Google street view analysis. The old market/DT was active and lively all hours of the day, a healthy police presence, diverse set of shops mixed in with a great restaurant and bar scene.  All staged on probably the nicest new urban park system I've seen in my 50 state travels.  Granted, they've dumped in an incredible amount of money, and outside of DT there isn't much neighborhood life, although that is changing. 

I understand and have preached our DT is big and has bigger bones than most, however Omaha's investment in DT and urban parks are admirable. 

I did recently as well.  Omaha is even more brutally sprawling than our own region.  Not shitting on the place.  It's not a bad city (or even, utterly boring or flyover worthy).  There are some cool things to do.  But I don't think it's even close to our region.  Everything is spread out. 

^ I know practically nothing about Omaha but looking at it's weird boundaries you can tell annexation has been a major force there. For now it's a bit larger than Atlanta in square miles and a bit smaller in population.... but if it continues to annex and eat up greenfields I wouldn't be too surprised if it surpasses Atlanta in population down the road. 

Omaha city is only about 15-20k less than ATL city limits, not MSA.   I agree with the rate of annexation it WILL be bigger than ATL in the near future.  MSA, never a chance.  

I was not talking about Omaha vs STL region, the title of this thread is Downtown.  I was responding to a post about DT Omaha vs DT STL.  Obviously there is no comparison between the 2 metro areas.  But, people have a hard time reading posts and respond out of context.  

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:Not sure if you’ve ever experienced winter on the high plains, but I would bet money it will never surpass ATL in population. They would have to annex 3 states.

Actually they would just need to annex one neighboring suburb.


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TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

Not sure if you’ve ever experienced winter on the high plains, but I would bet money it will never surpass ATL in population. They would have to annex 3 states.

I think they meant city population. Omaha was at 486,000 in 2020 (apparently down to 483,000 in 2023, goes to show how funky these estimates seem to be) while Atlanta was 499k (up to 511k in the 2023 estimate). So it's reasonable that via annexation or even rapid growth like Omaha has seen it could pass Atlanta's city population. Obviously not metro.

cteclipse wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

Omaha city is only about 15-20k less than ATL city limits, not MSA.   I agree with the rate of annexation it WILL be bigger than ATL in the near future.  MSA, never a chance.  

I was not talking about Omaha vs STL region, the title of this thread is Downtown.  I was responding to a post about DT Omaha vs DT STL.  Obviously there is no comparison between the 2 metro areas.  But, people have a hard time reading posts and respond out of context.  

Downtown St. Louis has almost 10 million square feet of office space and that’s with RX and 909 on the shelf.

Clayton has 7.85 million square feet of office space.

Downtown Omaha has only 2.84 million square feet of office space. When the new Mutual of Omaha tower is done they’ll have 3.5MM. Woohoo.

Please stop comparing the two. It’s a silly exercise.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

cteclipse wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

Omaha city is only about 15-20k less than ATL city limits, not MSA.   I agree with the rate of annexation it WILL be bigger than ATL in the near future.  MSA, never a chance.  

I was not talking about Omaha vs STL region, the title of this thread is Downtown.  I was responding to a post about DT Omaha vs DT STL.  Obviously there is no comparison between the 2 metro areas.  But, people have a hard time reading posts and respond out of context.  

Downtown St. Louis has almost 10 million square feet of office space and that’s with RX and 909 on the shelf.

Clayton has 7.85 million square feet of office space.

Downtown Omaha has only 2.84 million square feet of office space. When the new Mutual of Omaha tower is done they’ll have 3.5MM. Woohoo.

Please stop comparing the two. It’s a silly exercise.

Downtown STL has 10.02 million (29.3% vacant), Clayton has 9.63 million (15.2% vacant) while Downtown Omaha has 7.73 million (6.1% vacant). This doesn't include the 920,000 sq foot Mutual of Omaha building.

DT Omaha is nowhere near DT St Louis in terms of attractions and amenities. However…

Omaha has twice the population and nearly triple the population density DT as St Louis. It also has a much lower vacancy rate. It’s a fairly lively place, relatively speaking.

They also seem to have less homeless and cleaner parks (aside from our Arch grounds).

Their skyline isn’t on our level, but they are about to have 2 buildings taller than anything we have. Plus, their development record the last 10 years is pretty impressive.


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Downtown Omaha is 2.8MM square feet. And the new mutual of Omaha tower is 800,000 not 920,000. Stop spreading misinformation Auggie.

https://cw-gbl-gws-prod.azureedge.net/- ... 91a07ef34c

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:Downtown Omaha is 2.8MM square feet. And the new mutual of Omaha tower is 800,000 not 920,000. Stop spreading misinformation Auggie.

https://cw-gbl-gws-prod.azureedge.net/- ... 91a07ef34c

This data doesn’t include owner occupied, government, or non competitive buildings. The Colliers reporting matches the numbers Auggie posted.


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Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:Omaha has one of the fastest growing homeless populations in the country.

https://flatwaterfreepress.org/quick-hi ... ig-deeper/

And the height of buildings means absolutely nothing.

And Omaha has only one and half urban districts: Downtown and Midtown kinda. Driving into Downtown Omaha on Dodge or Farnham is like driving down Brentwood, Hanley or Manchester in the county.

They still have less than half the homeless population we do DT.

And of course height matters in a skyline. It’s not everything though.


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There are about 25 homeless people in downtown STL. And I think I personally know 20 of them

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:Omaha has one of the fastest growing homeless populations in the country.

https://flatwaterfreepress.org/quick-hi ... ig-deeper/

And the height of buildings means absolutely nothing.

And Omaha has only one and half urban districts: Downtown and Midtown kinda. Driving into Downtown Omaha on Dodge or Farnham is like driving down Brentwood, Hanley or Manchester in the county.

They still have less than half the homeless population we do DT.

And of course height matters in a skyline. It’s not everything though.


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Sounds like DT Omaha isn’t doing its part.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Aug 27, 2024

Downtown Omaha is 2.8MM square feet. And the new mutual of Omaha tower is 800,000 not 920,000. Stop spreading misinformation Auggie.

https://cw-gbl-gws-prod.azureedge.net/- ... 91a07ef34c

According to Colliers, Downtown Omaha has 7.73 million sf and the Omaha Metro has 35.13 million sf, not 18.36 million sf. 

But you're right, I assumed that was their only office building under construction when actually they have 920,000 sf under construction and Mutual of Omaha is only 800,000 sf of it.