Improving TOD should be a large pillar in this because its largely been absent in existing lines and is needed in general for any new line to make sense.
What current areas not on any lines at this time has the density or at least developing the density at this time?
Are there other transit options that may make more sense or to consider? If so where would they go?
Personally the Westport line seems like it would have very low ridership unless there was a concerted effort to develop in a dense urban way along the line. Probably the same for all other options as well. The county is not built densely enough for metrolink to really work.
Now one could read this two different ways. One way is don't bother building it. The other is build it with coordinated effort from many developers to develop the stops so that they support ridership necessary to justify the line.
Westport line would definitely be crowded headed to Cardinals games and major events. It would be cool if we could get a spur to Ferguson and Westport line.
The County has been able to add solid TOD around approximately zero of their stations. The closest they have come would be downtown Clayton but I suspect it's mostly unrelated to transit access.
Fortunately this leaves a blank canvas at many of the stations for some elite TOD. Particularly on the Red Line, but the Blue line has some great opportunities as well (looking at you Forsyth Station) The county just has to actually pursue and incentivize it. The county is officially stagnant/shrinking. Spots for density are hard to come by, these transit corridors could make a huge difference if developed correctly.
The County has been able to add solid TOD around approximately zero of their stations. The closest they have come would be downtown Clayton but I suspect it's mostly unrelated to transit access.
Fortunately this leaves a blank canvas at many of the stations for some elite TOD. Particularly on the Red Line, but the Blue line has some great opportunities as well (looking at you Forsyth Station) The county just has to actually pursue and incentivize it. The county is officially stagnant/shrinking. Spots for density are hard to come by, these transit corridors could make a huge difference if developed correctly.
How much of this is the municipality needing to do the TOD and not the County due to who would be responsible?
Another element I noticed is a number of stations have access issues where just adding paths will make the station more useful. Richmond Heights station has no access to points east of the line without making a large loop. Clayton station isn't easily accessible to points south of Forest Park Parkway. Just strange to not have places very close to the station be able to walk to the station without making a long detour.
The Clayton stop is inexcusable. There is plenty of space for a path and stairway leading down to Brentwood Blvd between the tracks. Anybody redeveloping the old family courts site (plus maybe the Enterprise campus if they move) should require it to be built
I'm in the camp that county has done such a poor job with pushing existing transit & TOD on what it has already built that an argument for new line is weak. To be fair to the county, having +90 muni's is hurting transit in a big way as well.
Which goes back to points of expansion that have seem to have to no comments on. So thoughts on the following
First, once upon a time my family lived two blocks from the end of the line at Shrewsbury and I would do the metrolink train shuffle to get to/from Lambert. So the low hanging fruit would simply extend cross county (sorry, but going old school) to I55 & add two or three more stations? Heck, I would go one step further and extend Cross County to the north along I-170 to tie in and provide south county with a direct Lambert route instead of Westport (say Green line). I think Shrewsbury, Maplewood/Sunnen, Brentwood and Richmond Heights or South County points have direct Lambert access (for flights and jobs) would do as much as for TOD as anything else in South County . In other words, defacto I-170 extension that never came to be is a legit transit corridor
Second, I really have a tough time why the county wouldn't want metrolink extended past Lambert and add a few more stations on the way to Earth City/Casino. To me this seems the best place to invest as in metrolink as far as the county goes right now. Going in with TOD incentive funds such as Nr Hanley Station development or towards Delmar and adding service to Earth City/Casino jobs is a win for the county in my mind
I do think that extending the blue line along I-170 to the north and to I-55 to the south would probably be the most impactful long route that St. Louis County could consider.
To the north, you could also consider punching through I-270, taking trains to places like Boeing and Old Town Florissant.
To the south, riders would have a pretty long ride to downtown St. Louis, but they would also have a pretty direct path to the airport. South County commutes to downtown could eventually be solved with the green line going further south in the future.
I just would be curious to know how those trains would be run. Could riders going westbound on the blue line from the Skinker-DeBaliviere station go directly to the airport, or would they have to catch a north-bound connection at the Richmond Heights station?
I do also like the idea of extending the red line a mile or two to the east. Take it out to Earth City and near some of the jobs and attractions (Hollywood Casino, Hollywood Amphitheater, Dave & Busters, etc.) out that way. It'd be right on the doorstep of St. Charles city and St. Charles County. If those political entities would ever embrace MetroLink, I think we could see a relatively massive expansion of the system in a short time.
Wouldn't extending the line along 170 also provide the first couple miles of any line to Westport? Also could encourage TOD around 170 and Olive if that is a rail junction and with likely more bus service. Also wouldn't a red line extension also potentially meet a Westport line if that was created and extended northwest?
The St. Charles argument is something to think about since I picture in coming years public there will be more open to expanding there.
The County has been able to add solid TOD around approximately zero of their stations. The closest they have come would be downtown Clayton but I suspect it's mostly unrelated to transit access.
Fortunately this leaves a blank canvas at many of the stations for some elite TOD. Particularly on the Red Line, but the Blue line has some great opportunities as well (looking at you Forsyth Station) The county just has to actually pursue and incentivize it. The county is officially stagnant/shrinking. Spots for density are hard to come by, these transit corridors could make a huge difference if developed correctly.
from 2020-2023 the county added a grand total of 650 apartments.....Butler Brothers in downtown alone added 384
The County has been able to add solid TOD around approximately zero of their stations. The closest they have come would be downtown Clayton but I suspect it's mostly unrelated to transit access.
Fortunately this leaves a blank canvas at many of the stations for some elite TOD. Particularly on the Red Line, but the Blue line has some great opportunities as well (looking at you Forsyth Station) The county just has to actually pursue and incentivize it. The county is officially stagnant/shrinking. Spots for density are hard to come by, these transit corridors could make a huge difference if developed correctly.
from 2020-2023 the county added a grand total of 650 apartments.....Butler Brothers in downtown alone added 384
No question St. Louis City has been a hot development market recently which is great to see. I also realize we cherry picking years to make it the most absurd data point (COVID years).
Still, is that number the total net gain? It doesn't seem like it can be a gross total.
^ I would say more if WashU didn't own a big chunk of the property around Delmar Station. Which got me thinking the county, muni fragmentation and public institutions all have contributed as you can make case that UMSL would rather land bank then promote TOD around nearby stations as well.
I think I mentioned this before, and I am considering addressing this with Metro; I just got back from Chicago, and I have been on many other systems. Why do we not have audible, pre recorded station announcements? The current PA system is not as efficient.
Because it hasn't been an upgrade yet. Last time we had a system-wide amenities upgrade was when the Blue Line opened. All the stations got new signage and the red LED signs, along with the new fare payment system. We are currently undergoing a massive system upgrade that will include new far gates, new payment system (that I'm pretty sure will include being able to pay with your credit card just by tapping), new overhead screens that will show ETA times, a new PA system, and we will be getting new train vehicles in the next couple of years which I presume will include overhead screens and an automated PA system. So, it's coming.
For the North/South extension - Fox Park Neighborhood association shared a preliminary response about the Russell and Arsenal stops being removed from Bi-State/Metro. Specifically for Russell, they said they are concerned that a stop would create hazards for the Early Childhood Center and the Vet....What? Jefferson now is a hazard and I would think a stop would only help. Ridiculous IMO.
Sidewalk crowding? That's their concern? It is very optimistic to think any station in the system would regularly generate enough traffic for that to be a concern. Maybe if they're so worried they could make Jefferson less than 5 lanes wide at that location.
Oh for sure. Our Alderwoman collected responses for the removal of those stops and I hope a lot of neighbors responded. Just absolutely insane that both of those would be cut.
StlToday - MetroLink expansion plan in north St. Louis County is on ‘indefinite’ hold
St. Louis County officials are holding off further exploration of MetroLink expansion and new rapid bus lines in North County.
“The pause is indefinite,” Stephanie Leon Streeter, the county’s director of transportation and public works, said in an email this week.
None of the routes reviewed by a consulting firm would meet minimum federal ridership, cost-effectiveness and other requirements, Streeter said. Federal money is needed to cover most of the cost, with a county sales tax covering the rest.
Some of the light rail or rapid bus routes studied by the county’s consultants would be spurs from MetroLink’s existing red line, which ends at St. Louis Lambert International Airport.
Other possible routes would link sites in North County to Natural Bridge Avenue and North Grand Boulevard in north St. Louis city. That location would tie into another proposed MetroLink expansion — one the city has studied, called the “green line.”
The city and county not being able to work together on anything is the reason Metrolink hasn't expanded since 2006. Regional fragmentation will keep St. Louis an increasingly irrelevant region. Cara Spencer doubling down and putting a stop to the Green Line is a continuation of that legacy. I personally don't think the county ever had intentions on expanding Metrolink. Both the city and county have done sales tax money grabs and not spent it on Metrolink expansion. Neither the city or county is serious about real TOD around Metrolink. Both the city and county use Metrolink as a political dog whistle to the detriment of the region, while progressive regions are actually expanding their rail systems because they want to be economically relevant in a 21st century economy.
Outside of the bigger coastal metros and maybe Chicago, America feels to me like a place where everyone is driving around in huge trucks and suv's to strip malls and big box stores and living about as anti urban a lifestyle as possible. Its thoroughly depressing how piss poor our infrastructure is and the vast majority of people just do not care. I actually feel like sprawl is getting worse.
Outside of the bigger coastal metros and maybe Chicago, America feels to me like a place where everyone is driving around in huge trucks and suv's to strip malls and big box stores and living about as anti urban a lifestyle as possible. Its thoroughly depressing how piss poor our infrastructure is and the vast majority of people just do not care. I actually feel like sprawl is getting worse.
Yes it is getting worse. Cities like Houston, San Antonio, the Dallas Metroplex, and Phoenix are some of the fastest growing cities and they're all disproportionately growing in the form of hellscape suburbs.
I think Minneapolis is like the only non-Chicago Midwestern city that is actually trending in a positive direction with regards to urbanism and building an economically sustainable city.
The worst part is that these suburban parasites will look you in the eye and tell you that this is peak civilization when it's actually the worst most economically draining cancerous part of America and unimaginably worse than actually developed countries.
