Rehab of the Carriage Works at 3948 Laclede is being marketed.
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https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/3950-La ... /24232338/
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/3950-La ... /24232338/
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Demo work is underway at the former Goodwill buildings. Specifically, the parking lot in front of the smaller, modern, connecting building. Saw an earth mover digging up the drive and dropping it all into a massive hauler. The area's been walled off from Forest Park Parkway for some time.
The parking lot south of Cortex 1, which has been targeted for development as an apartment building for some time, just got repaved. The apartment development doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon, if at all. Abandonment of the project is probably mentioned further up-thread, but I don't specifically recall.
Cortex seems like it would be the perfect place to build a couple thousand residential unit TOD type development without displacing anybody. It's really been a head scratcher to see how slow Cortex is developing in comparison to other nearby neighborhoods.Tim wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2023The parking lot south of Cortex 1, which has been targeted for development as an apartment building for some time, just got repaved. The apartment development doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon, if at all. Abandonment of the project is probably mentioned further up-thread, but I don't specifically recall.
No mystery, the area is a suburban office park between a highway and a stroad while there are fine-grained, human-scaled neighborhoods on the other side.
Cortex shot for the stars and landed on the moon. Just a shame that shooting for the stars required pointless land banking and building acres of empty surface parking.
I believe Cortex would be better today if they had just focused on infrastructure improvements and start-up programs, then let the private market respond naturally.
I believe Cortex would be better today if they had just focused on infrastructure improvements and start-up programs, then let the private market respond naturally.
I think Cortex was going to and still will eventually will be a urban mixed use neighborhood, there just isn’t any demand for any new buildings right now since COVID. Seems cortex wants an at least some office component to every building and there hasn’t been any demand for that. In a few years, that may be a different story. It just needs to “fill in” over time.
As is, it’s still a big improvement over what it was before.
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As is, it’s still a big improvement over what it was before.
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Eh Cortex took out a lot of industry that was still operating and a few historic buildings in good if not great shape. I dunno that i'd go as far as to say they made it worse but on balance not sure it's more vibrant now.dtgwvc wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2023I think Cortex was going to and still will eventually will be a urban mixed use neighborhood, there just isn’t any demand for any new buildings right now since COVID. Seems cortex wants an at least some office component to every building and there hasn’t been any demand for that. In a few years, that may be a different story. It just needs to “fill in” over time.
As is, it’s still a big improvement over what it was before.
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Also, I'm skeptical that all this hold up is because of "the market." The grove has had a booming property market for years now while much of Cortex is an expanse of parking lots. Maybe I could've been convinced pre-pandemic that it was better to wait for office construction to come along to develop those lots, but with WFH being as popular as it is I just don't see Cortex's grand vision of a mini tech downtown over there happening. They should let most of the lots go to whoever will take them, which I imagine will be mostly residential developers.
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Agree. Times change due to circumstance therefore vision should change.PeterXCV wrote:Eh Cortex took out a lot of industry that was still operating and a few historic buildings in good if not great shape. I dunno that i'd go as far as to say they made it worse but on balance not sure it's more vibrant now.dtgwvc wrote: ↑Sep 22, 2023I think Cortex was going to and still will eventually will be a urban mixed use neighborhood, there just isn’t any demand for any new buildings right now since COVID. Seems cortex wants an at least some office component to every building and there hasn’t been any demand for that. In a few years, that may be a different story. It just needs to “fill in” over time.
As is, it’s still a big improvement over what it was before.
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Also, I'm skeptical that all this hold up is because of "the market." The grove has had a booming property market for years now while much of Cortex is an expanse of parking lots. Maybe I could've been convinced pre-pandemic that it was better to wait for office construction to come along to develop those lots, but with WFH being as popular as it is I just don't see Cortex's grand vision of a mini tech downtown over there happening. They should let most of the lots go to whoever will take them, which I imagine will be mostly residential developers.
Side note I walk through cortex daily and it certainly amazes me how dead it is 3-5 days a week. Garage has maybe 30% of the spots in use and maybe 4 people get on or off the metro at this stop.
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I’d bet that if a few years from now there hasn’t been any movement on new buildings we might see Wash U med build another substantial facility in Cortex somewhere. That is the one long term safety valve for Cortex.
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Hate to say it, but like the many office parks around the US right now, Cortex is an outdated concept. The tech companies they court especially trend more towards WFH than your average companies. Plus bio-science seems to be focusing itself in Creve Coeur over Cortex.
In other words, bring on the apartments!
In other words, bring on the apartments!
I think that’s a bit reactionary, there are sectors like life sciences, and geospatial that can never be WFH that Stl will likely see growth in. who knows in five years what Tech is going to look like, especially if unemployment goes up and companies have more bargaining power. And there are still plenty of empty lots in the central corridor not in Cortex I’d like to see apartments at.
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To be fair, even if the Cortex office scene was continuing to boom today, I would still be heavily in favor of building residential in Cortex.
Definitely not opposed to mixed use but we need to get high paying jobs into the city at some point. I just dont think we can give up on office just yet.
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Reminder that Work From Home becoming the accepted norm is still in high order in Cortex and around the country. I'm reading CNBC on another screen as I type this, and they're showing that offices across the country have only 50% of the daily attendance they did prior to the Pandemic in 2020. It's a societal change and will take time to recover. This gives sway to furthering apartment construction within Cortex. However, the needs of increasing workers in the City are very much at play here. Cortex is not just about attracting workers to the City but about attracting entrepreneurial startups, biotech companies & other new technology companies, and the R&D of established companies (like Boeing and General Dynamics). Plus, there are many sites outside Cortex that may be better for residential; I'd think along Vandeventer south of the Metrolink tracks would be very attractive for new residential development.
Perhaps what needs to change is the type of office clients being sought, as work from home is still the accepted norm. What Cortex should pursue is office space that cannot be replicated from home: wet labs, research centers, SCIFs. This will lead to further industrial cluster development by providing a real estate product that's not as easy to replicate.
Also, I'm looking forward to new companies coming into Cortex that are attracted to the new WashU neurological research building that's just now coming online with workers and researchers.
Perhaps what needs to change is the type of office clients being sought, as work from home is still the accepted norm. What Cortex should pursue is office space that cannot be replicated from home: wet labs, research centers, SCIFs. This will lead to further industrial cluster development by providing a real estate product that's not as easy to replicate.
Also, I'm looking forward to new companies coming into Cortex that are attracted to the new WashU neurological research building that's just now coming online with workers and researchers.
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Wouldn’t the type of work generally done at cortex not really be conducive to work from home?
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Depends. The big push for entrepreneurial offices likely is lost for the near term, as the acceptableness of working from home has many startups at the kitchen tables now and saving on rents. Research-centric and technology-dependent businesses can't all readily work from home. Many of these are within Cortex already and are not likely going anywhere. My thoughts are that the Cortex Board should double-down on what's already there while attracting facilities that cannot be replicated at employees' homes, such as SCIFs and wet labs. If the Sandcrawler was filled with labs and SCIFs, I bet we'd see construction progress taking place already.
Reminder that we do have inflated costs of construction and higher interest rates all making construction much more difficult to fund.
Reminder that we do have inflated costs of construction and higher interest rates all making construction much more difficult to fund.
I don't think we can underestimate the chilling effect Ald. Pihl's reign had in the window between the pandemic and the now high interest rate environment. There was some momentum there for residential uses on a couple of those sites either publicly or behind the scenes that just went away.
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Major demo work underway now. Glass enclosed lobby going down, other activity as of yesterday.gone corporate wrote: ↑Sep 21, 2023Demo work is underway at the former Goodwill buildings. Specifically, the parking lot in front of the smaller, modern, connecting building. Saw an earth mover digging up the drive and dropping it all into a massive hauler. The area's been walled off from Forest Park Parkway for some time.
Please refresh my aged memory What is going to take the place of the old goodwill? ty
Biden administration names 31 tech hubs, STL misses out.
KC and SWMO/Rolla get designations.
KC and SWMO/Rolla get designations.
^ STL likely “missed” because the EDA had already been fairly friendly to St. Louis in recent appropriations for Manufacturing center and Biotech. The largest being $25M (with opportunity for more) for Advanced Manufacturing.
As much as I wish these things were assigned via merit, it’s largely a political spread.
As much as I wish these things were assigned via merit, it’s largely a political spread.
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Anyone know what it going on with the "allied Photocolor" building at 4219 FPA?
Its getting demoed, noticed it while checking progress at Goodwill demo.
Its getting demoed, noticed it while checking progress at Goodwill demo.
NextSTL - Independence Center Plans Senior Apartments at 4221 Forest Park Ave
https://nextstl.com/2023/05/independenc ... -park-ave/
https://nextstl.com/2023/05/independenc ... -park-ave/