Small update on the Wexford Sandcrawler building- it’s ready to go and all its waiting for is to find an anchor tenant before restarting.
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That’s excellent news. What kind of tenant are they looking for? Was this Biotech or something like that?dbInSouthCity wrote:Small update on the Wexford Sandcrawler building- it’s ready to go and all its waiting for is to find an anchor tenant before restarting.
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Given today's announcement that Legal Services of Eastern MO is moving to Peabody Plaza, it will be interesting to see what becomes of their current building on Forest Park Parkway, right next to the ALoft hotel.
Hopefully they'll be putting it up for sale soon - looks like it could be repurposed as lab space?
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Hopefully they'll be putting it up for sale soon - looks like it could be repurposed as lab space?
Legal Services of Eastern Missouri owns its Forest Park Avenue building, which is situated within the Cortex tech district. Glazier said his group is keeping its options open with that facility.

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The building is really badly laid out inside inside: very disjointed, bad airflow, bad passage between levels and wings, and regular flooding, especially in the basement. I'm expecting a new build for sure. While I'd like residential, I'm assuming based on the Cortex sustainability mission (aka the pandemic-proofing) with a focus on labs that they'll be targeting that. Better labs than a parking garage.
I'd hope they could find a way to reuse the building. I've not been impressed by the new architecture at Cortex, all of the buildings have setbacks from the street and the aloft hotel doesn't even have an entrance from Forest Park Parkway.
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I'd be in favor of new-build at the Legal Services of Eastern MO building.
Specifically, I'm in favor of a sister building to Cortex One (SW corner of Forest Park Parkway & Boyle) being constructed. That building is prefab concrete, three stories, 177,000 sq.ft. of wet labs and office space. I'm very much in favor of new construction including wet lab space and other highly specific commercial buildings in this new office real estate environment; plus, such design would complement the whole Cortex district aesthetically.
Concurrently, I want to see a sister building to Cortex One going west of the current building, the SE corner of Forest Park Parkway & Newstead. That site used to be those apartment buildings that were torn down in recent history, currently serving as a construction prep site for the new WashU Neuroscience building. Having an extended wall of 3-story lab office space, of the same design pattern, extending down FPP from Newstead past the Aloft Hotel at Boyle, would be aesthetically complementary to the entire site while also furthering its mission.
Specifically, I'm in favor of a sister building to Cortex One (SW corner of Forest Park Parkway & Boyle) being constructed. That building is prefab concrete, three stories, 177,000 sq.ft. of wet labs and office space. I'm very much in favor of new construction including wet lab space and other highly specific commercial buildings in this new office real estate environment; plus, such design would complement the whole Cortex district aesthetically.
Concurrently, I want to see a sister building to Cortex One going west of the current building, the SE corner of Forest Park Parkway & Newstead. That site used to be those apartment buildings that were torn down in recent history, currently serving as a construction prep site for the new WashU Neuroscience building. Having an extended wall of 3-story lab office space, of the same design pattern, extending down FPP from Newstead past the Aloft Hotel at Boyle, would be aesthetically complementary to the entire site while also furthering its mission.
Guys, I really am concerned about the lack of new commercial/lab/research construction in the district. Just a few years ago space was leased as quickly as it was built. Now . . . nothing. Granted, Wash U has some big projects going up nearby, but other than that things are really quiet.
Is there anything in the pipeline (besides vague rumors about the Sandcrawler)?
Is there anything in the pipeline (besides vague rumors about the Sandcrawler)?
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^I believe the Cortex K development is the closest thing we have to a near-term development. Otherwise, everything's being held back by our Alderwoman, Sweet-T Pihl.
^^ My two cents from outsider perspective and pretty much in line w GC. Change in politic leadership that went from pursuing CORTEX development to seeing what concessions can we get. One semi hot neighborhood in a very slow growth unwilling to invest itself city doesn't get you very far in a very competitive world.
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Want development in the Central West End?
It's pretty clear that ward needs to lead Sweet-T to the door and throw her out.
It's pretty clear that ward needs to lead Sweet-T to the door and throw her out.
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iirc the uses Cortex mentioned it was working on with potential tenants for the recently approved/activated TIF sub-district were not primarily lab/research... something child education related I think was mentioned as one lead. They also said that changes that occured with the pandemic has made office a challenge. Having said that, I'm curious not only on the Sandcrawler but also if the SCIF building that was mentioned awhile back (for the Forest Park Ave parcel west of IKEA used as a parking lot that was slated for a mixed-use apartment building long ago but never materialized) is still in planning.framer wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2023Guys, I really am concerned about the lack of new commercial/lab/research construction in the district. Just a few years ago space was leased as quickly as it was built. Now . . . nothing. Granted, Wash U has some big projects going up nearby, but other than that things are really quiet.
Is there anything in the pipeline (besides vague rumors about the Sandcrawler)?
Also, I know there are a lot of Alderwoman Pihl haters but let's be fair, people. She sponsored the TIF activiation Cortex wanted even though some didn't have concrete plans, as generally is required, and supported Cortex K after they agreed to include some 60% AMI units as she had asked. BB115 which she sponsored was passed 21-1 (Tyus only no vote) and was signed by the Mayor. https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/c ... BBId=14136
I'm skeptical that it's all Pihl's fault, I'm not satisfied with Cortex's pace either but as far as I'm concerned it's always been that way. If Cortex is hard up for money they should sell the huge unused lots they own at Forest Park & Vandeventer and 4000-4030 Laclede.
This is true, but the neighborhood committee is also responsible for killing way too many projects.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2023Want development in the Central West End?
It's pretty clear that ward needs to lead Sweet-T to the door and throw her out.
The Central West End is a nice neighborhood for a rust belt city, but definitely far from being a "complete" neighborhood. It could be way more dense and there is still a number of vacant high profile lots in the neighborhood. I think sometimes St. Louisans should travel more, the CWE is nice but the surge of density and development happening to similar neighborhoods in booming cities make the CWE look middle of the pack in demand and urbanity.dredger wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2023^^ My two cents from outsider perspective and pretty much in line w GC. Change in politic leadership that went from pursuing CORTEX development to seeing what concessions can we get. One semi hot neighborhood in a very slow growth unwilling to invest itself city doesn't get you very far in a very competitive world.
I think St. Louisans LIKE the low density, slow paced life. There are plenty of folks around here that travel extensively, but when they get home they wanna kick back and relax. It's just part of the local culture.
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Omg thank you! I just booked my trip to pigeon forge! First time leaving Missouri!goat314 wrote: ↑Feb 01, 2023The Central West End is a nice neighborhood for a rust belt city, but definitely far from being a "complete" neighborhood. It could be way more dense and there is still a number of vacant high profile lots in the neighborhood. I think sometimes St. Louisans should travel more, the CWE is nice but the surge of density and development happening to similar neighborhoods in booming cities make the CWE look middle of the pack in demand and urbanity.dredger wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2023^^ My two cents from outsider perspective and pretty much in line w GC. Change in politic leadership that went from pursuing CORTEX development to seeing what concessions can we get. One semi hot neighborhood in a very slow growth unwilling to invest itself city doesn't get you very far in a very competitive world.
Well I wouldn't necessarily even say that St. Louis is as laid back as locals want to believe. It definitely has a urbane and stressful vibe compared to a most places in the Sunbelt, but what I will say is that places like Atlanta, Dallas, Nashville, and Charlotte are embracing urbanity more than St. Louis. It may be because those cities were never as urban as St. Louis, so being denser is cool and fashionable to them. Maybe cities of the rust belt have an aversion for density, because we associate it with ghettos, slums, and crowding during the industrial age, but in 2023 I think our built environment is what makes St. Louis unique and probably the only competitive advantage it has over many cities at this point.framer wrote: ↑Feb 01, 2023I think St. Louisans LIKE the low density, slow paced life. There are plenty of folks around here that travel extensively, but when they get home they wanna kick back and relax. It's just part of the local culture.
Wish they'd embrace slow-paced driving.framer wrote: ↑Feb 01, 2023I think St. Louisans LIKE the low density, slow paced life. There are plenty of folks around here that travel extensively, but when they get home they wanna kick back and relax. It's just part of the local culture.
Don't disagree with any of that but the CWE is the densest STL has by a long shot. The most walkable, 15-min neighborhood we have. And yes, it should be more dense.goat314 wrote: ↑Feb 01, 2023The Central West End is a nice neighborhood for a rust belt city, but definitely far from being a "complete" neighborhood. It could be way more dense and there is still a number of vacant high profile lots in the neighborhood. I think sometimes St. Louisans should travel more, the CWE is nice but the surge of density and development happening to similar neighborhoods in booming cities make the CWE look middle of the pack in demand and urbanity.dredger wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2023^^ My two cents from outsider perspective and pretty much in line w GC. Change in politic leadership that went from pursuing CORTEX development to seeing what concessions can we get. One semi hot neighborhood in a very slow growth unwilling to invest itself city doesn't get you very far in a very competitive world.
One other thought related to this wider conversation - CWE is also the neighborhood with the most transplants. the most by far. Many many folks from the coasts who know "true" density. So, to blame the residents of the CWE for fighting more density isn't entirely accurate.
Knowing that the CWE is the densest we have, I'd argue that the STLiens who move to the CWE do NOT want slower bullsh*t. They want urban, walkable vibrancy. The CWE isn't Webster Groves and CWE residents know this when choosing to move to the CWE.
We shouldn't paint the whole city with the same brush, just because some residents may like things more slow paced, doesn't mean we all do and there are different neighborhoods for different lifestyles. It is not part of our culture that everything everywhere in the city must be slow, that would be terrible.framer wrote: ↑Feb 01, 2023I think St. Louisans LIKE the low density, slow paced life. There are plenty of folks around here that travel extensively, but when they get home they wanna kick back and relax. It's just part of the local culture.
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Discussions of CWE NIMBYism are and should be considered separate from CORTEX-related development issues. I have my gripes with both and can seriously go off on each of them.
Quasi-off-topic: Certain developments in the CWE get NIMBYs running at them for potentially impacting their day-to-day livelihoods, whether validly known or suspected. The land-owners often fight developments that'd bring in renters, whether college students or doctors. And, while many say they support liberal-minded idealism towards diverse neighborhoods full of every demographic, they really don't want the "poors" coming into their neighborhood, pushing off developments that include worker housing options. I remember being at a neighborhood meeting of the proposed apartments along the 4100 block of Lindell and saw these arguments personally. Overall, I'd say people are just scared of change that's proximate to where they already have their perceived ideal lives.
That all said, what's going on in CORTEX is wholly different. CWE NIMBYs do not object to what goes on south of Forest Park Avenue. In fact, they cheer it on, with the idea that focused developments in CORTEX will bring the developments they want while leaving them alone. They even like the idea of new renters coming into the CWE if they live in or around CORTEX south of FPA, like what's been proposed behind the CORTEX One Building.
Now, I work in the financial services world and have valid experience with real estate investments. With that foundation, I say that I believe the best commercial real estate investments to be made today can be found in (1) Industrial developments and (2) Specialized Office Space, those that cannot be substituted so readily by employees working from home. Among these specialized office spaces, I would bring up Wet Lab Space; Scientific Research Centers; Technology Research Centers; and SCIFs. These are exactly the types of developments CORTEX was created to further. If anything, the focus of development in STL should still be on CORTEX even amidst this giant transition of work-from-home employees.
I maintain that the central hold-up is the foot-dragging by Alderwoman Pihl's office. On one hand, her office is, to put it politely, slow to respond to constituent thoughts on development, let alone to the developers themselves. On the other, she's very interested in reinventing the CWE, including and especially CORTEX, to economically diversity it. She wants to take a dedicated research office center and fill it with workforce housing, putting the kibosh on any developments that don't feature it. Even for those that do work with her on that subject, like Cortex K, it's awfully slow going to get it moving forward in its new iteration, often because margins are decreased enough to question whether any profitability remains in a development.
I readily state that any action or inaction by Alderwoman Pihl's office is not the only issue. We're in a highly-inflationary environment. We're questioning whether or not a recession will take place later this year, or if they'll just say we had one in the first half of last year. Indeed, the post-pandemic work-from-home trend is very real. Same time, those developments proposed for CORTEX are exactly the ones that should be immune to this occurrence. New labs, research centers, and SCIFs should be popping up all the time for the area; instead, all I hear are grievances. The area just east of CORTEX is full of so many new things that it's getting hard to keep track, but inside CORTEX we don't have a damn thing going on. It's outrageous.
Heavy is the head that wears the crown. Therefore, whether they are unable or unwilling to get anything done, I find Alderwoman Pihl and her office to be the primary causes of CORTEX developments grinding to a halt.
Quasi-off-topic: Certain developments in the CWE get NIMBYs running at them for potentially impacting their day-to-day livelihoods, whether validly known or suspected. The land-owners often fight developments that'd bring in renters, whether college students or doctors. And, while many say they support liberal-minded idealism towards diverse neighborhoods full of every demographic, they really don't want the "poors" coming into their neighborhood, pushing off developments that include worker housing options. I remember being at a neighborhood meeting of the proposed apartments along the 4100 block of Lindell and saw these arguments personally. Overall, I'd say people are just scared of change that's proximate to where they already have their perceived ideal lives.
That all said, what's going on in CORTEX is wholly different. CWE NIMBYs do not object to what goes on south of Forest Park Avenue. In fact, they cheer it on, with the idea that focused developments in CORTEX will bring the developments they want while leaving them alone. They even like the idea of new renters coming into the CWE if they live in or around CORTEX south of FPA, like what's been proposed behind the CORTEX One Building.
Now, I work in the financial services world and have valid experience with real estate investments. With that foundation, I say that I believe the best commercial real estate investments to be made today can be found in (1) Industrial developments and (2) Specialized Office Space, those that cannot be substituted so readily by employees working from home. Among these specialized office spaces, I would bring up Wet Lab Space; Scientific Research Centers; Technology Research Centers; and SCIFs. These are exactly the types of developments CORTEX was created to further. If anything, the focus of development in STL should still be on CORTEX even amidst this giant transition of work-from-home employees.
I maintain that the central hold-up is the foot-dragging by Alderwoman Pihl's office. On one hand, her office is, to put it politely, slow to respond to constituent thoughts on development, let alone to the developers themselves. On the other, she's very interested in reinventing the CWE, including and especially CORTEX, to economically diversity it. She wants to take a dedicated research office center and fill it with workforce housing, putting the kibosh on any developments that don't feature it. Even for those that do work with her on that subject, like Cortex K, it's awfully slow going to get it moving forward in its new iteration, often because margins are decreased enough to question whether any profitability remains in a development.
I readily state that any action or inaction by Alderwoman Pihl's office is not the only issue. We're in a highly-inflationary environment. We're questioning whether or not a recession will take place later this year, or if they'll just say we had one in the first half of last year. Indeed, the post-pandemic work-from-home trend is very real. Same time, those developments proposed for CORTEX are exactly the ones that should be immune to this occurrence. New labs, research centers, and SCIFs should be popping up all the time for the area; instead, all I hear are grievances. The area just east of CORTEX is full of so many new things that it's getting hard to keep track, but inside CORTEX we don't have a damn thing going on. It's outrageous.
Heavy is the head that wears the crown. Therefore, whether they are unable or unwilling to get anything done, I find Alderwoman Pihl and her office to be the primary causes of CORTEX developments grinding to a halt.






