Superhornet production to end after 2025.... but new opportunities are on the horizon. . .
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomp ... d331e0607f
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomp ... d331e0607f
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^ STL Biz Journal reporting pretty much the same...
Boeing unveils plans to end production of its St. Louis-made F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jet
Between the hiring of 900 new employees in STL last year; the construction of 3 new manufacturing facilities in STL Metro; and the openness of this announcement, including the freeing-up of the F/A-18 production line; I'm reasonably opportunistic that Boeing STL has a very good opportunity to manufacture either the NGAD or the F/A-XX 6th generation fighter program. Lord knows the US gov't wants there to be more than just Lockheed-Martin making fighter planes in a competitive environment, especially after all the problems with the F-35, so I'm sure Hazelwood is going nowhere.
Boeing unveils plans to end production of its St. Louis-made F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jet
Between the hiring of 900 new employees in STL last year; the construction of 3 new manufacturing facilities in STL Metro; and the openness of this announcement, including the freeing-up of the F/A-18 production line; I'm reasonably opportunistic that Boeing STL has a very good opportunity to manufacture either the NGAD or the F/A-XX 6th generation fighter program. Lord knows the US gov't wants there to be more than just Lockheed-Martin making fighter planes in a competitive environment, especially after all the problems with the F-35, so I'm sure Hazelwood is going nowhere.
For better or worse it is also tough seeing from a national interest perspective to a political interest and current geopolitics that the county will limit itself to one jet fighter builder in the near future. The same way that the Navy has kept at least 2 to 3 shipbuilders involved in building navy vessels.
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^Yep. And I fully expect Boeing will have a lot more opportunity to sell overseas now too. And their current offerings are quite a bit cheaper than Lockheed's so . . .
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Boeing to build new ‘Phantom Works’ facility in St. Louis for future military aircraft
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/boeing-to-build-new-phantom-works-facility-in-st-louis-for-future-military-aircraft/article_d2ae67ba-f9b9-11ed-9e5e-f3fcb9c3e513.htmlBoeing is building a secure, 47,500-square-foot “Phantom Works” facility here that will focus on future military aircraft, the company announced today.
Phantom Works is the research, development and prototyping division of Boeing’s defense unit. The new building is in addition to the company’s existing Phantom Works site in St. Louis County, and will be located adjacent to it. It is expected to be operational in 2025.
Most of the work at Phantom Works is classified, said Steve Nordlund, senior site executive for Boeing St. Louis.
The company added a new advanced composite fabrication center in Mesa, Arizona, last year, and opened a lab and test facility in the St. Louis area over the winter.
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And boom goes the dynamite! I've been thinking STL was in the running for a significant new production line, but I wasn't sure we were going to get a whole new facility built for it. If my thinking's correct, we'll see a whole lot of new jobs and long-term contracts coming to town. Good times.
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Surprised that the F18 doesn't score sufficient foreign sales to keep the line open. Wasn't Top Gun Maverick like a big a commercial for the F18. I guess its squeezed by the F15 for speed and F16 for cost but it is a very capable aircraft for the money. Seems like they opened up who they can sell F15 to and the market for F18s fell off. The GKN problems didn't help either and may have actually put the nail in the coffin.
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Just reread the Biz Journal article on the Phantom Works expansion and noticed something I hadn't seen before. The photo they included of part of the planned Phantom Works campus is what they labeled their Advanced Coatings Center... When I read "advanced coatings," I read stealth. Something tells me we're going to have a whole lot of Boeing jobs in Hazelwood for the long term. Good times.
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^^They also mentioned a radar cross section testing facility, as I recall. So yes, stealth. It's pretty much a requirement going forward for the foreseeable future. Until the tech changes, anyway. Nobody fights in bright red uniforms anymore. Nobody wants to fly planes with a big radar signature at the cm to mm wavelengths. (I understand they're all visible at meter wavelengths, but I understand it's harder to target using that with any precision at all. And it requires big antenna arrays that you can't fit in a missile or maybe even a fighter. Mind you, I'm a stagehand and composer who plays wargames, not an electrical or aeronautical engineer, so . . . )
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There are a few major contracts to be awarded in the next few years. One is for the USAF's Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighter; another will be for the Navy & Marine Corps, which is tentatively acronymed as the F/A-XX. Both are to be sixth-generation warcraft; the only other sixth-gen plane being made today is the B-21 Raider. Now, these are each going to be expensive manned aircraft, say in the neighborhood of $200MM, but they're not necessarily going to be large orders. Instead, they will be matched with stealth drone aircraft, the "loyal wingman" programs coming into full effect. Where each of the manned aircraft will likely see orders of 200+ aircraft apiece, it's probable to expect 800-1,000 drones being built. That'll be a huge contract in and of itself. Good times to be an aerospace manufacturer.
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^I'm honestly guessing it'll be a lot more than that. I believe the NGAD is intended to replace not only the F-22 on a one for one basis, but older F-15s as well. And while drones will replace some of the Navy's current manned aircraft, I bet it won't be one for one. I believe the typical carrier air wing these days has four squadrons of Hornets or Lightnings and one of Growlers, totaling about sixty air frames, plus spares. Across eleven carriers that's conservatively about 660 airframes, plus training and shore based aircraft, so maybe a thousand or so total, which would be about half the aircraft the Navy operates. The Navy's new fighter won't replace all of those, but I'd be a little surprised if the order ends up being less than four or five hundred. Figure the other five to six would be replaced by drones, but if the drone takes up 60% of the space of a manned frame then you can bet the Navy will fill the space with more drones, so maybe three drones for every two birds, or 750 to 900 drones for the Navy alone. (And you can bet the USAF order will be bigger.) The sixth gen orders will start small, but they won't stay that way. I just don't see DoD shrinking right now.
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Here's an overview of the NGAD plans and the three potential manufacturers: Northrup Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and Boeing...
Sandboxx News / Air Power with Alex Hollings: The race is officially ON to field America's new stealth fighter
Sandboxx News / Air Power with Alex Hollings: The race is officially ON to field America's new stealth fighter
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This is HUGE news for STL!
Boeing wants to build a new aerospace program in St. Louis County, add 500 jobs
Boeing wants to build a new aerospace program in St. Louis County, add 500 jobs
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/business/boeing-wants-to-build-a-new-aerospace-program-in-st-louis-county-add-500-jobs/article_2cde8d44-27d4-11ee-9123-a3decef75e1a.htmlThe Boeing Co. is planning for a nearly $2 billion construction project at its north St. Louis County complex, aimed to support a "new aerospace program" that will bring an estimated 500 jobs to the region.
The plan, if approved and built, would be one of the biggest defense projects in the region's history. The news follows Boeing's announcement in May that it was expanding its secretive research and prototype unit, "Phantom Works," and as the aerospace industry ramps up for a national competition to build the next generation of U.S. fighter jets.
Kurt LaBelle with Boeing communications said on Friday that the project is about “looking ahead to the future and making advanced manufacturing production facilities.” In a statement, Boeing said the project would expand manufacturing potential for “future franchise programs.”
LaBelle wouldn't further comment on its purpose.
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This really is an incredible opportunity for STL and will reaffirm us as one of the centers for aerospace engineering and advanced manufacturing, both domestically and globally. Greater STL, Inc. has been furthering Boeing's efforts for about a year.
According to the requests for abatement, developments would take place on the Tract 1 North and Brownleigh sites. Reference map here.
The STL Business Journal's article says this development is all part of something being called "Project Voyager." Boeing currently has a program ongoing for the Navy called the Echo Voyager, which is an autonomous submersible (i.e. a drone submarine). This makes me think Voyager indicates drones, maybe even autonomous drones operating on AI platforms. Just a guess there.
Quid pro quo is that this expansion would put Boeing in the front of the line for new sixth generation aircraft contracts.
According to the requests for abatement, developments would take place on the Tract 1 North and Brownleigh sites. Reference map here.
The STL Business Journal's article says this development is all part of something being called "Project Voyager." Boeing currently has a program ongoing for the Navy called the Echo Voyager, which is an autonomous submersible (i.e. a drone submarine). This makes me think Voyager indicates drones, maybe even autonomous drones operating on AI platforms. Just a guess there.
Quid pro quo is that this expansion would put Boeing in the front of the line for new sixth generation aircraft contracts.
- 200-250+ Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) fighters for the Air Force.
- 200-250+ F/A-XX (NGAD) multi-role aircraft for the Navy and the Marine Corps.
- 1,000+ stealth drones operating under the "loyal wingman" platform.
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Huge news. I wonder if one day Boeing moves some of its other manufacturing operations to STL. That 60,000+ person workforce in Seattle can't be cheap.
I was wondering about that. The cost of living (and thus labor) just keeps on climbing and climbing and climbing out there.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jul 24, 2023Huge news. I wonder if one day Boeing moves some of its other manufacturing operations to STL. That 60,000+ person workforce in Seattle can't be cheap.
^ It won't move any of its commercial operations to St. Louis from Seattle. We don't have any of the facilities for it and it wouldn't be cheap to recreate those here just to reduce labor costs a bit. I could see St. Louis having a shot at some future commercial projects/components, like the St. Louis region landing the wing (tip?) assembly for the 777X but we won't be taking anything from Seattle.
I know we'll never do final assembly of commercial here ever. But I was wondering about components. I should have been clearer.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 24, 2023^ It won't move any of its commercial operations to St. Louis from Seattle. We don't have any of the facilities for it and it wouldn't be cheap to recreate those here just to reduce labor costs a bit. I could see St. Louis having a shot at some future commercial projects/components, like the St. Louis region landing the wing (tip?) assembly for the 777X but we won't be taking anything from Seattle.
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Weren’t we runner up in the 777X sweepstakes as the Puget Spund Machinists negotiation went to the 11th hour? Seems to suggest we could get final assembly work in StL some day.
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^We sure were! In fact, that's how we got the Composite Center that makes the 777X parts & pieces, including wing assembly. It really looked like STL was gonna get even more than that if the Machinists union in Seattle didn't agree to a new contract. I'd say that was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Outside of something really out there taking place, like the Cascadia fault lines swallowing Puget Sound, I'd be extremely doubtful Boeing would ever think to move their entire commercial manufacturing line out of Seattle. The costs of doing that would likely put the company out of business.
Meanwhile, I'm completely jacked on this new opportunity before us. Boeing STL makes fighters. Lockheed-Martin dropped the ball on manufacturing the JSF (F-35). Northrup-Grumman already has the B-21 program under production. I really like our chances here.
Meanwhile, I'm completely jacked on this new opportunity before us. Boeing STL makes fighters. Lockheed-Martin dropped the ball on manufacturing the JSF (F-35). Northrup-Grumman already has the B-21 program under production. I really like our chances here.
Lockheed-Martin probably earned themselves a round or two on the bench for how badly they screwed up the "Fiasco-35".gone corporate wrote: ↑Jul 24, 2023Lockheed-Martin dropped the ball on manufacturing the JSF (F-35).
I figure any new commercial assembly is going to South Carolina where they make 787s
StlToday - Here’s how much Boeing would save on taxes if St. Louis County approves incentives
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... bed7b.htmlLAYTON — School districts and other taxing entities in St. Louis County would miss out on nearly $11 million a year in revenue if the County Council approves a proposed tax break for the Boeing Co., but economic development boosters say the region needs the deal to compete.