I don't know. I took it off the airport's website and posted it here. Architectural design won't even start until next year...I wouldn't put too much thought into some concept illustrations.
ST. LOUIS — The city of St. Louis has received a $2.5 million state grant to help redevelop a 106-acre site just east of St. Louis Lambert International Airport.
Officials are hoping to attract an "advanced manufacturing" user to the property, which they're calling the Brownleigh Site. The grant will be used for feasibility, planning, engineering, preparation and infrastructure, said a spokeswoman for St. Louis Development Corp., the city's economic development arm.
unrelated to the necessary Lambert rebuild, someone care to explain this to me:
"The master plan reaches through 2040, when airport officials predict serving about 21 million passengers a year — an increase of roughly 34% over 2019, the most recent peak year for travel before the COVID-19 pandemic hit."
absent a rehubbing (not happening) or SWA drastically increasing its presence (maybe?), how will a slow growth/shrinking region grow passenger traffic by 34%?
@jshank83 when do you think we’ll see the next round of news from airport redevelopment. Environmental is ongoing, correct? More interested in new renderings/site maps.
I’m going with today. Haha.
As for more renderings. Not sure. I haven’t asked much about it. Conceptual design approval is 1st quarter 2024. So hopefully later this year?
I don't know. I took it off the airport's website and posted it here. Architectural design won't even start until next year...I wouldn't put too much thought into some concept illustrations.
The Metro is slow growth...yes. stagnant. But as for your question, growth only begins with luring new companies and new population demographics ... all which depend on an important , viable and strong passenger airport/infrastructure.
Nashville"s population is at 1.9 million, Pittsburgh is at 2.3 million. Both have rebuilds taking places. Both are not hubs. One city is growing the other is similar to STL slow growth. The point you have made is literally the mentality that many have about any development ... "why do we need to spend any money on anything" or "not my tax dollars". To build a city and community and maintain its validity, attraction and services for current residents or the next generations, you have to improve and build on the infrastructure first.
In fact, STL will most likely have more growth in air traffic than it is projected. As for hubs, STL is a "hub" for SWA... just because SWA historically doesn't call their large connection airports "hubs"... doesn't mean it is not a hub. Nearly 37 percent of Southwest passengers, or 1.8 million passengers, connect through STL. That is more connecting traffic than some airlines that have "hubs" in other airports. SWA has said they are focused on growing STL and they plan to increase service in the future when they have more planes and crews available. They also are committed to making STL a crew hub and stations in the near future as soon as they are able to rebound in those two categories.
Another example to reference is SLC (Salt Lake City) and metro area and airport. SLC metro has slow growth and is roughly around just 1.3 million. But their new airport reconfiguration and hub for Delta has grown exceptionally.
STL's current major global city status should not just be disregarded. The city is one of the largest Fortune 500 company cities still today and the nearly 3 million in the CSMA isn't something to just dismiss. The goal and focus is to continue to lure new population and corporate development. Cannot do that without improving overall infrastructure ...much less do the same for current population and to maintain them as well.
unrelated to the necessary Lambert rebuild, someone care to explain this to me:
"The master plan reaches through 2040, when airport officials predict serving about 21 million passengers a year — an increase of roughly 34% over 2019, the most recent peak year for travel before the COVID-19 pandemic hit."
absent a rehubbing (not happening) or SWA drastically increasing its presence (maybe?), how will a slow growth/shrinking region grow passenger traffic by 34%?
It’s simple. Not everyone that flies through Lambert lives here. Nearly 40% of SWA’s traffic in STL is connections they feed through here…
Never mind visitors and tourism and the smaller metros around STL that feed into Lambert as well. The airport isn’t just used by St. Louis residents.
The Metro is slow growth...yes. stagnant. But as for your question, growth only begins with luring new companies and new population demographics ... all which depend on an important , viable and strong passenger airport/infrastructure.
Nashville"s population is at 1.9 million, Pittsburgh is at 2.3 million. Both have rebuilds taking places. Both are not hubs. One city is growing the other is similar to STL slow growth. The point you have made is literally the mentality that many have about any development ... "why do we need to spend any money on anything" or "not my tax dollars". To build a city and community and maintain its validity, attraction and services for current residents or the next generations, you have to improve and build on the infrastructure first.
In fact, STL will most likely have more growth in air traffic than it is projected. As for hubs, STL is a "hub" for SWA... just because SWA historically doesn't call their large connection airports "hubs"... doesn't mean it is not a hub. Nearly 37 percent of Southwest passengers, or 1.8 million passengers, connect through STL. That is more connecting traffic than some airlines that have "hubs" in other airports. SWA has said they are focused on growing STL and they plan to increase service in the future when they have more planes and crews available. They also are committed to making STL a crew hub and stations in the near future as soon as they are able to rebound in those two categories.
Another example to reference is SLC (Salt Lake City) and metro area and airport. SLC metro has slow growth and is roughly around just 1.3 million. But their new airport reconfiguration and hub for Delta has grown exceptionally.
STL's current major global city status should not just be disregarded. The city is one of the largest Fortune 500 company cities still today and the nearly 3 million in the CSMA isn't something to just dismiss. The goal and focus is to continue to lure new population and corporate development. Cannot do that without improving overall infrastructure ...much less do the same for current population and to maintain them as well.
ahem, please re-read the third word of my post dude.
"unrelated to the necessary Lambert rebuild..." NECESSARY. This isn't W-1W.
I'm absolutely not arguing to not re-build Lambert. It's needed and necessary. The rest of your post? yeah, you ain't arguing with me. I'm an ally for all of that. Maybe hit the St. Charles County Board with that message? LOL
I'm simply asking how they are getting their growth projection numbers.
unrelated to the necessary Lambert rebuild, someone care to explain this to me:
"The master plan reaches through 2040, when airport officials predict serving about 21 million passengers a year — an increase of roughly 34% over 2019, the most recent peak year for travel before the COVID-19 pandemic hit."
absent a rehubbing (not happening) or SWA drastically increasing its presence (maybe?), how will a slow growth/shrinking region grow passenger traffic by 34%?
It’s simple. Not everyone that flies through Lambert lives here. Nearly 40% of SWA’s traffic in STL is connections they feed through here…
Never mind visitors and tourism and the smaller metros around STL that feed into Lambert as well. The airport isn’t just used by St. Louis residents.
Yep - I understand how airport catchment and connecting traffic works. Of course, Lambert isn't just for STL-proper O&D travelers. Those variables are a part of my question.
With that said, it may really be as simple as SWA expecting to serve 34% more travelers in 2040.
fwiw, the Salt Lake City Metro/Wasatch Front is not a slow growth area; it's booming. It's completely reasonable to understand how passenger growth there may increase signficantly but to have a harder time envisioning high growth in a slow growth region. But I belive the Lambert forecast is based on around 1.6%-1.9% annual growth, which doesn't sound far-fetched. I think this is a relevant background document on projections:
fwiw, the Salt Lake City Metro/Wasatch Front is not a slow growth area; it's booming. It's completely reasonable to understand how passenger growth there may increase signficantly but to have a harder time envisioning high growth in a slow growth region. But I belive the Lambert forecast is based on around 1.6%-1.9% annual growth, which doesn't sound far-fetched. I think this is a relevant background document on projections:
Thank you for the measured response STLRainbow. Annualized growth would account for some of it, but annual growth just under 2% for 17 years does (sadly) seem farfetched to me. Be that as it may, I"ll take a closer look at the PDF. Thanks for sharing.
I do want to call out that I think the St. Louis Airport Commission (Rhonda + team) has done a great job with Lambert. There's only two regions smaller than STL with better service than us - SLC and CLT. And, in a few years, CLT metro will likely be bigger than STL, if it isn't already. SLC is blessed by geography. Additionally, peer regions like IND no longer have TATL service, while we do. thumbs up!
There are some elements of terminal rebuilding that are needed based on current issues. Mainly the limited space for international arrivals, especially with widebodies and how Southwest is arranged.
Growth projections especially now should not be as reliable as in the past. There are arguments that the area starts having faster growth before midcentury. Main reasons being cost of living issues in other places and various climate issues especially in relation to water.
I personally thought 21 mil by 2040 was low. But some of that number is going to be based on how big Southwest wants to be here.
2016-2018 averaged a million passengers growth a year over 3 years. Going from 12.7 mil to 15.6 mil a year. If not for covid I think 20 mil by the end of this decade would have happened.
How many decades have we been designing airports? Why is it still so hard?
Yup.
I know three people who have flown in and out of the new KCI. They grumblingly mention the new terminal being nice but all three then just laid into it in regards to the traffic hellscape that it is. One person mentioned that it might be significantly a human engineering thing as people are stopping/parking in what should be through lanes and nobody is enforcing it. Another said that what should have been an easy pickup around noon on a Wednesday took over an hour because traffic was at Thanksgiving/Christmas Eve levels.
They also mentioned the cell phone lots are at capacity and even the parking garage is a pretty heavy challenge.
Speaking of, it appears most are starting to realize that Southwest isn’t rushing to transfer seats from St. Louis or Denver. Obviously the COVID jolt played a role but if this were STL the local news would be plastering “Local leaders missed their chance”.
It’ll be interesting to see how engaged Southwest is in STL negotiations this year and next. Obviously they’ll be a leader, but by how much? That’ll be a good indicator of Southwest’s future in KC.
Speaking of, it appears most are starting to realize that Southwest isn’t rushing to transfer seats from St. Louis or Denver. Obviously the COVID jolt played a role but if this were STL the local news would be plastering “Local leaders missed their chance”.
It’ll be interesting to see how engaged Southwest is in STL negotiations this year and next. Obviously they’ll be a leader, but by how much? That’ll be a good indicator of Southwest’s future in KC.
After the west runway debacle I'm loathe to grab our ankles the way we did for TWA. I think the Lambert St. Louis folks should make sure as many of Southwest's wishes are addressed, within reason. But that might already be taken care of with the long single terminal that's double sided.
Speaking of, it appears most are starting to realize that Southwest isn’t rushing to transfer seats from St. Louis or Denver. Obviously the COVID jolt played a role but if this were STL the local news would be plastering “Local leaders missed their chance”.
It’ll be interesting to see how engaged Southwest is in STL negotiations this year and next. Obviously they’ll be a leader, but by how much? That’ll be a good indicator of Southwest’s future in KC.
I think the only reason this is even happening is because of Southwest.
Southwest committing to pay for the expanded baggage claim while knowing it’s going to have a short lifespan was a big clue to me how they feel about STL. It would have been easy to just say no and wait out the new terminal.
I really hope the Lambert people are watching what is happening at KCI with their pickup/drop off parking and traffic disaster.
St. Louis has had the two-level pickup and drop off thing going for years though. St. Louisans know how to handle it. Even when the two terminals are consolidated, I doubt it will be a problem. KC people were so used to being able to park at the curb and wait at the old terminals that the new rules, and old habits, will be hard to learn and break. St. Louis benefits on the front of people knowing what to do because it’s been the way of life for a long time.
