909 Chestnut - Former Southwestern Bell/SBC/AT&T Tower

LArchitecture · PostDec 09, 2022#8762022-12-09T23:41+00:00

STLAPTS wrote:
CG91 wrote: ↑
Dec 09, 2022
TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: Name them.
I posted this jokingly, given the other major obstacles facing our region. Like the SLU joke, obviously we need to state when we are being facetious or sarcastic. We can obviously do neither build a lake or change the climate. Unless Paul McKee say's so. (calm down, also a joke.)

That said, I love this city, but it's winter is harsh (Jan & Feb) it's summers are brutal. A large lake and water culture is a balm on the summer. From Louisville, Nashville, Cinci, Cleveland, Pitt, you name it, they have marinas. They have water culture. And it is an amenity we cannot fake, despite our river city image.
Our geographic position in the center of the country and on 2 major waterways is a strength. No one said it wasn't.
I mean yeah sure more “water culture” would be nice. I’d love to see the riverfront around downtown be developed and have a marina with recreational boats all around. But that doesn’t mean STL has bad geography. And the winter is fine. It’s basically 2 months long and snows once or twice. Tell someone from Minnesota our winter is harsh and see what they say

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I'm from Minnesota. The summers here are not near as brutal as the 6-7 months of winter I experienced growing up. Not even close.

100% agree. I’m also from a more northern state. My parents already have had 2 snow storms that cancelled school (minimum 6 inches of snow) and 3 ice storms. Winter hardly exists here except maybe 2-3 weeks.

The issues here from my perspective have nothing to do with geography and all about National publicity which STL gets more bad than good.

JaneJacobsGhost · PostDec 10, 2022#8772022-12-10T16:05+00:00

shadrach wrote: ↑
Dec 09, 2022
I respectfully disagree to a point regarding the lack of a lake. And what that really is is a lack of water culture.

I lived in Cincinnati years ago and though no lake in the area, the were marinas on the Ohio, floating restaurants, you knew someone who had a boat and spending all day on the water, puttering up to restaurants, hanging out at serpentine wall, etc. is great fun. Obviously we can't do that. I lived in Atlanta in 2009, no river but Lake Howell (where they filmed Ozark) and Lake Lanier (1996 Olympic venue) are big lakes that are close (I would say Carlyle is a day trip and not a impromptu option, Lake St. Louis is private). Dallas has serval large reservoirs/lakes with waterfront property, Minneapolis has both lake and river water culture, Indy, Tulsa, Columbus, DC, Augusta, GA have better river/lifestyle activation and integration for non-boat owners. Let be honest, we suck. We have three rivers and you're hard pressed to find one bar/restaurant the overlooks the water that not in Grafton. (Yes, I know Mississippi and Missouri are different beasts than the Ohio. But once the Goldenrod left it's like the area just gave up.)

Now let's talk swimming pools. Apartments/condos are private. In the city, they're tied with the Y and expensive. Every (almost) muni has a pool, again expensive and exclusive to residents/guests. I think Queeny and another in South County, forget where, offer day passes. Hanging out by the pool is really hard if you don't have disposable income/pool access opportunity.

Yes, I would love to hop in a car on a lazy Sunday, drive out to Creve Coeur Lake and....or wait, no swimming allowed. Never mind.

Pictures attached of restaurants people who've never been to St. Louis would expect to find in St. Louis but can't. And are probably shocked and go back home and say disappointing STL was.

That said, Kudos and hats off to Big Muddy Adventures. Gotta start somewhere.

These are good points. I also think connecting more with Ozark scenic waterways could enhance our water culture image.

CG91 · PostDec 11, 2022#8782022-12-11T06:48+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:we have a river thats been known to raise like 20 feet in 24 hours....you aint getting anything downtown unless its on a barge.

Not true. At my last job I saw yachts riding thru on the Mississippi thru downtown every day all summer long from my office window

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dbInSouthCity · PostDec 11, 2022#8792022-12-11T15:59+00:00

^ that doesn’t contradict what I said. All kinds of boats go up and down the Mississippi, that wasn’t the point. The point was that any time of restaurant on the river would have to be on a barge like all the riverboat cruise cafe, helicopter rides etc.

CG91 · PostDec 11, 2022#8802022-12-11T17:22+00:00

^ my bad, didn’t know that’s what you meant. You are right about it needing to be on a barge then

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shadrach · PostDec 11, 2022#8812022-12-11T18:08+00:00

When I was in Cincy, the floating restaurants there were ‘pinned’ in place by poles that allowed the structure to rise and lower with the water level.

This example is from Portland. For some reason we don’t do it here, might be another Coast Guard restriction.

jacob_rb_15 · PostDec 11, 2022#8822022-12-11T18:18+00:00

I'm curious as to what they'll do with all of the rooftop HVAC units since they plan on putting in a rooftop pool. That sounds really expensive to move them.

chriss752 · PostDec 12, 2022#8832022-12-12T06:28+00:00

On the agenda for December 13th's LCRA meeting. A few more refined details than the marketing document had.

Development cost will be $300 Million
306 apartments with average rent of $1.60 per square foot and $2270 per month in rent.
300 hotel rooms in a brand similar to a JW Marriott.
288,000sf office space
37,000sf retail space

The tax abatement term is proposed to be total of 15 years with the breakdown being...

5 years at 95%
5 years at 75%
5 years at 50%

An interesting tidbit is that the Advantes Group is the developer, which surprises me. A couple years ago, their portfolio document had "The Beacon on Chestnut" listed, but I thought that wasn't true. Property search still shows Somera Road owns the property, so maybe this will be a partnership with Advantes handling the apartments and Somera handling the office, hotel and retail components.

STLAPTS · PostDec 12, 2022#8842022-12-12T12:29+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Dec 12, 2022
On the agenda for December 13th's LCRA meeting. A few more refined details than the marketing document had.

Development cost will be $300 Million

306 apartments with average rent of $1.60 per square foot and $2270 per month in rent.

300 hotel rooms in a brand similar to a JW Marriott.

288,000sf office space

37,000sf retail space

The tax abatement term is proposed to be total of 15 years with the breakdown being...

5 years at 95%

5 years at 75%

5 years at 50%

An interesting tidbit is that the Advantes Group is the developer, which surprises me. A couple years ago, their portfolio document had "The Beacon on Chestnut" listed, but I thought that wasn't true. Property search still shows Somera Road owns the property, so maybe this will be a partnership with Advantes handling the apartments and Somera handling the office, hotel and retail components.

Agreed. Advantes being developer would surprise me as well.

JaneJacobsGhost · PostDec 12, 2022#8852022-12-12T13:33+00:00

I’m very (pleasantly) surprised by the amount of tax abatement requested.

gone corporate · PostDec 12, 2022#8862022-12-12T18:53+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Dec 08, 2022
I still say the city should look into subsurface parking on Serra Park to serve the rest of the building. The park would be restored (and ideally improved) on top so no loss of public space.

Seconding this. Best thing we can do to Serra Park is put parking underneath it. Fixes proximate parking problems, generates revenues, and can reinstall the Serra sculpture on top of it once the site is fully operational.

LArchitecture · PostDec 12, 2022#8872022-12-12T18:55+00:00

gone corporate wrote:
STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Dec 08, 2022
I still say the city should look into subsurface parking on Serra Park to serve the rest of the building. The park would be restored (and ideally improved) on top so no loss of public space.
Seconding this. Best thing we can do to Serra Park is put parking underneath it. Fixes proximate parking problems, generates revenues, and can reinstall the Serra sculpture on top of it once the site is fully operational.

Of note KC is doing something very similar at Barney Allis Plaza. So it can be done.

PeterXCV · PostDec 12, 2022#8882022-12-12T18:57+00:00

It breaks my brain a bit entertaining building more parking for this building. SWB built that enormous garage at 11th & Chestnut to supply parking for these buildings, it has to be easier for some actor to be able to coordinate them using that space than building more. Complete lack of imagination in a Downtown already saturated with garages and lots.

debaliviere · PostDec 12, 2022#8892022-12-12T19:14+00:00

gone corporate wrote: ↑
Dec 12, 2022
STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Dec 08, 2022
I still say the city should look into subsurface parking on Serra Park to serve the rest of the building. The park would be restored (and ideally improved) on top so no loss of public space.
Seconding this. Best thing we can do to Serra Park is put parking underneath it. Fixes proximate parking problems, generates revenues, and can reinstall the Serra sculpture on top of it once the site is fully operational.

Or better yet - whoops, we misplaced the Twain panels. Darn it.

quincunx · PostDec 12, 2022#8902022-12-12T19:21+00:00

Melt it down to make rails for extending the Loop Trolley to the Zoo.

STLEnginerd · PostDec 12, 2022#8912022-12-12T22:56+00:00

PeterXCV wrote: ↑
Dec 12, 2022
It breaks my brain a bit entertaining building more parking for this building. SWB built that enormous garage at 11th & Chestnut to supply parking for these buildings, it has to be easier for some actor to be able to coordinate them using that space than building more. Complete lack of imagination in a Downtown already saturated with garages and lots.

Easy to agree with but a dedicated parking facility was often cited as the reason to pass on this building. Clearly such an agreement is at least not a forgone conclusion.

I still might put parking under Serra but only so I could demo the south side of the SBC garage and rebuild it as a slender tower with great views of the mall. Without the justification to get a redevelopment done that would probably fall more into the "pie in the sky" category.

symphonicpoet · PostDec 13, 2022#8922022-12-13T05:07+00:00

quincunx wrote: ↑
Dec 12, 2022
Melt it down to make rails for extending the Loop Trolley to the Zoo.

Okay . . . this hurts. I love it and I hate it in so many ways. You're making my head explode!

quincunx · PostJan 08, 2023#8932023-01-08T21:34+00:00

On Wednesday's Planning Commission Agenda
"Resolution proposes Chapter 99 Blighting Study and Redevelopment Plan for Planning Commission review and recommendation."
306 apts
300 hotel rooms
288,000 sf office space
37,000 sf retail

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 23-RDM.pdf

_nomad_ · PostJan 09, 2023#8942023-01-09T02:14+00:00

quincunx wrote: ↑
Jan 08, 2023
On Wednesday's Planning Commission Agenda
"Resolution proposes Chapter 99 Blighting Study and Redevelopment Plan for Planning Commission review and recommendation."
306 apts
300 hotel rooms
288,000 sf office space
37,000 sf retail

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 23-RDM.pdf

I am not terribly familiar with how the blighting designation works in the city or what it means for the property. What is the advantage to a Chapter 99 Blighting Study? Or does this mean the property has already been blighted and this is just seeking the planning commission's approval to move forward? Excuse my ignorance on this subject.

MattnSTL · PostJan 09, 2023#8952023-01-09T03:00+00:00

^Chapter 99 development area designation allows for tax-abatement under Missouri Statutes.

quincunx · PostJan 12, 2023#8962023-01-12T00:40+00:00

quincunx wrote: ↑
Jan 08, 2023
On Wednesday's Planning Commission Agenda
"Resolution proposes Chapter 99 Blighting Study and Redevelopment Plan for Planning Commission review and recommendation."
306 apts
300 hotel rooms
288,000 sf office space
37,000 sf retail

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 23-RDM.pdf

Passed

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostJan 12, 2023#8972023-01-12T20:05+00:00

Biz Journal has article on this today.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... 1#cxrecs_s

Interesting note is that Advantes will buy the building from Somera (close 2024) and has negotiated a long term lease for 500 parking spaces at the AT&T garage with an option to extend. this should solve the parking question for both hotel and residents.

They are getting ducks in a row, but the timeline for completion looks like 26 at earliest imo.

dbInSouthCity · PostJan 12, 2023#8982023-01-12T20:17+00:00

Q1 of 2026 is what’s been listed in market long materials for office space

_nomad_ · PostJan 12, 2023#8992023-01-12T20:20+00:00

I'm definitely impatient on this project (like I am with every project, I want it now), but that does seem like a reasonable timeline for a project of this size. Hopefully the building will feel less desolate before then with construction crews and whatnot working in there, though.

quincunx · PostJan 19, 2023#9002023-01-19T17:24+00:00

Blighting and tax abatement - 5 yrs @ 95%, 5 at 75%, and 5 at 50%
Lease for 500 parking spaces in AT&T garage

Think they need 1,000 more parking spaces
HUDZ cmte rec do pass 11-0

909 Chestnut - Former Southwestern Bell/SBC/AT&T Tower

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