Financial Times puts STL in the top 20 US cities for foreign investment/business. Will be good for more international service I think!
https://ig.ft.com/us-cities-index/
https://ig.ft.com/us-cities-index/
I didn't mean to anger you. Most of just an FYI to travelers and to show how the ORD redo is progressing.AJ1289 wrote: ↑Oct 06, 2022Sorry for being dense, but does the Delta move from Terminal 2 to Terminal 5 at O'Hare affect anything for us here?dweebe wrote: ↑Oct 06, 2022Delta is moving all of their O'Hare operations over to Terminal 5.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/10/05 ... erminal-5/
I will delete the post.
^^ This has already been posted in the national news thread.
^ No one is angry with you and there is nothing to delete. Someone questioning something you wrote is not a personal attack, it’s an Internet forum. It’s a valid question, there is a Chicago thread after all…
^ No one is angry with you and there is nothing to delete. Someone questioning something you wrote is not a personal attack, it’s an Internet forum. It’s a valid question, there is a Chicago thread after all…
August numbers are out.
Passengers
up 21.6% over AUG21
up 41.6% YTD vs 2021
down 8.9% vs AUG19- first month less than 10% down
down 15.9% YTD vs 2019
Small chance when September numbers come in they put 2022 over 2021 numbers for entire year with 3 months to go.
Passengers last 12 months: 12,977,537
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... rt-Aug.pdf
Passengers
up 21.6% over AUG21
up 41.6% YTD vs 2021
down 8.9% vs AUG19- first month less than 10% down
down 15.9% YTD vs 2019
Small chance when September numbers come in they put 2022 over 2021 numbers for entire year with 3 months to go.
Passengers last 12 months: 12,977,537
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... rt-Aug.pdf
St. Charles County Executive rambling about taking the airport away from the city, in addition to SLMPD take over.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/politics/steve-ehlmann-the-record-st-louis/63-b14548d6-6515-4263-b69d-e5a77317a31c
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/politics/steve-ehlmann-the-record-st-louis/63-b14548d6-6515-4263-b69d-e5a77317a31c
^ No need to have the same discussion across multiple threads. This was posted back in September:
city-county-merger-reentry-board-of-fre ... s1425.html
city-county-merger-reentry-board-of-fre ... s1425.html
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Was out there today. All the construction is pretty wild. And it felt crowded. Almost feels like old times.
Southwest extended their schedule through June
Notes
Up about 7.7% over last year
Down 6.8% from 2019 still
Flights
2023 ...2022...2019
Fri 108.....102.....118
Sat 100....89....103
Sun 120...108....120
All pre-covid routes except BDL/SFO are back at least once a day
PDX/SEA/SJC/SNA/SLC back but only Saturday
Oak back to 6x a week
CUN is daily but also has a 2nd flight on Sat
LAX 3x during the week
Punta Cana stays
Montego Bay stays 2x week
San Juan still 1x a week
All the beach routes from summer are back
Frequencies
Notes
Up about 7.7% over last year
Down 6.8% from 2019 still
Flights
2023 ...2022...2019
Fri 108.....102.....118
Sat 100....89....103
Sun 120...108....120
All pre-covid routes except BDL/SFO are back at least once a day
PDX/SEA/SJC/SNA/SLC back but only Saturday
Oak back to 6x a week
CUN is daily but also has a 2nd flight on Sat
LAX 3x during the week
Punta Cana stays
Montego Bay stays 2x week
San Juan still 1x a week
All the beach routes from summer are back
Frequencies
| City | Friday | Saturday | Sunday |
| Atlanta GA (ATL) | 3 | 2 | 4 |
| Austin TX (AUS) | 3 | 1 | 3 |
| Baltimore MD (BWI) | 3 | 4 | 4 |
| Boston MA (BOS) | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Cancun MX (CUN) | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Charleston SC (CHS) | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Charlotte NC (CLT) | 1 | 0 | 1 |
| Chicago IL (MDW) | 7 | 3 | 7 |
| Cleveland OH (CLE) | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Columbus OH (CMH) | 2 | 0 | 1 |
| Dallas TX (DAL) | 6 | 4 | 7 |
| Denver CO (DEN) | 6 | 5 | 7 |
| Des Moines IA (DSM) | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Destin FL (VPS) | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Detroit MI (DTW) | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Ft. Lauderdale FL (FLL) | 1 | 3 | 3 |
| Ft. Myers FL (RSW) | 2 | 4 | 2 |
| Hartford, CT (BDL) | |||
| Houston TX (HOU) | 4 | 3 | 5 |
| Jacksonville FL (JAX) | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Kansas City MO (MCI) | 4 | 1 | 3 |
| Las Vegas NV (LAS) | 4 | 3 | 4 |
| Little Rock AR (LIT) | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Long Beach CA (LGB) | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Los Angeles CA (LAX) | 3 | 2 | 2 |
| Miami FL (MIA) | 0 | 2 | 1 |
| Milwaukee WI (MKE) | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Minneapolis MN (MSP) | 2 | 1 | 1 |
| Montego Bay JAM (MBJ) | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Myrtle Beach SC (MYR) | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Nashville TN (BNA) | 4 | 1 | 3 |
| New Orleans LA (MSY) | 2 | 1 | 3 |
| New York NY (LGA) | 5 | 2 | 3 |
| Oakland CA (OAK) | 1 | 0 | 1 |
| Oklahoma City OK (OKC) | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Omaha NE (OMA) | 2 | 1 | 3 |
| Orange County CA (SNA) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Orlando FL (MCO) | 5 | 5 | 6 |
| Panama City FL (ECP) | 1 | 4 | 2 |
| Pensacola FL (PNS) | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| Philadelphia PA (PHL) | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| Pittsburgh PA (PIT) | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Phoenix AZ (PHX) | 3 | 4 | 4 |
| Portland OR (PDX) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Punta Cana DR (PUJ) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Raleigh NC (RDU) | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| Sacramento (SMF) | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Salt Lake City (SLC) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| San Antonio TX (SAT) | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| San Deigo CA (SAN) | 1 | 2 | 2 |
| San Jose CA (SJC) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| San Juan PR (SJU) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Sarasota FL (SRQ) | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| Seattle WA (SEA) | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| Tampa FL (TPA) | 2 | 4 | 4 |
| Tulsa OK (TUL) | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| Washington DC (DCA) | 4 | 3 | 3 |
| Wichita KS (ICT) | 2 | 1 | 2 |
| 108 | 100 | 120 |
Airport commission update
No Rhonda today, her father passed away
495 mil of bonds left outstanding. Most falls off by early 2030s
Bond for 2023/24. 150 mil (expected 130)
Improvements, enlargement of the airport?, other stuff
New baggage claim is coming to terminal 2. Said 60 mil (which seems high).
___________________
Grant money for upgrades to livestock shipping. Expect it to be the best facility in the country for livestock shipping after improvements
Got distracted but I think the Host one got pushed a month due to Rhonda not being there.
Sun Country is going to be doing cargo for Amazon. Not passenger related.
October 6% below 2019 - I think this is people thru security, doesn't include connecting
_____
Layout plan update was given.
Construction starts 2025ish
Airlines are involved at this point with scope/price/etc
I assume they will upload the slides, not much to type out
Staff toured the new KC airport last week.
No Rhonda today, her father passed away
495 mil of bonds left outstanding. Most falls off by early 2030s
Bond for 2023/24. 150 mil (expected 130)
Improvements, enlargement of the airport?, other stuff
New baggage claim is coming to terminal 2. Said 60 mil (which seems high).
___________________
Grant money for upgrades to livestock shipping. Expect it to be the best facility in the country for livestock shipping after improvements
Got distracted but I think the Host one got pushed a month due to Rhonda not being there.
Sun Country is going to be doing cargo for Amazon. Not passenger related.
October 6% below 2019 - I think this is people thru security, doesn't include connecting
_____
Layout plan update was given.
Construction starts 2025ish
Airlines are involved at this point with scope/price/etc
I assume they will upload the slides, not much to type out
Staff toured the new KC airport last week.
September numbers.
Up 26.3% vs Sept 2021
Down 6.5 vs Sept 2019
Up 39.5% YTD vs 2021
Down 14.8 YTD vs 2019
Last 12 months 13,231,673
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... t-Sept.pdf
Up 26.3% vs Sept 2021
Down 6.5 vs Sept 2019
Up 39.5% YTD vs 2021
Down 14.8 YTD vs 2019
Last 12 months 13,231,673
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... t-Sept.pdf
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RHN has my sincere condolences. But it's great to see things moving forward. I think she's built a heck of a team and I'm glad they're handling this.
Super exciting to hear that construction will start in 2025 (pending any hurdles)! Obviously too early to jump to conclusions or anything but I'd love to see/hear the final design proposals and what the price tag will look like once all is said and done. Good to see the airport team touring KCI's new terminal and hopefully finding inspiration and information on what it takes to design and build a new terminal. I wonder if they'll have the opportunity to tour other newly-built or in-progress terminals across the country to get a sense of the process and what it takes to get this across the finish line. In my opinion, they should tour or visit with the airport authorities at BNA, DEN, LGA and ORD to name a few off the top of my head. To me, LGA would be a great airport to tour and gain more info on the new airport terminal, especially given the hellhole that it once was. If we're talking airports with similar passenger numbers, BNA would be a great one to explore.
Any word on whether this will be funded entirely with new bonds or will federal money come into the picture here, given the infrastructure bill?
Any word on whether this will be funded entirely with new bonds or will federal money come into the picture here, given the infrastructure bill?
They mentioned they made tweeks to it based on LGA.AJ1289 wrote: ↑Nov 03, 2022Super exciting to hear that construction will start in 2025 (pending any hurdles)! Obviously too early to jump to conclusions or anything but I'd love to see/hear the final design proposals and what the price tag will look like once all is said and done. Good to see the airport team touring KCI's new terminal and hopefully finding inspiration and information on what it takes to design and build a new terminal. I wonder if they'll have the opportunity to tour other newly-built or in-progress terminals across the country to get a sense of the process and what it takes to get this across the finish line. In my opinion, they should tour or visit with the airport authorities at BNA, DEN, LGA and ORD to name a few off the top of my head. To me, LGA would be a great airport to tour and gain more info on the new airport terminal, especially given the hellhole that it once was. If we're talking airports with similar passenger numbers, BNA would be a great one to explore.
Any word on whether this will be funded entirely with new bonds or will federal money come into the picture here, given the infrastructure bill?
I think there should be some federal grants involved. Not sure how many
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^^Nashville isn't a model I'd personally want to follow. It just feels dreary and empty to me, possibly thanks to just how very centralized the concessions are. It's almost too big for what it is. I think Detroit is a better model. Much cleaner, brighter, and more pleasant. There's enough centralization to make it easy, but there should be something to do near your gate. (Mind you, I've only ever been airside at either place. And I've spent slightly more time in DTW than BNA.)
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^ Yeah, the LGA remodel and especially the DTW terminal should be the models to follow here. KC's terminal is also pretty blah to me, so to me the visit there seems more like Lambert officials getting some first-hand experience at redoing terminals at an active airport (that is fairly close to here making the trip easy) more so than getting design inspiration.
I second your DTW as a model opinion. Despite how long their linear terminal is, it's easy to navigate and doesn't feel like there's choke points to get very crowded.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Nov 04, 2022^^Nashville isn't a model I'd personally want to follow. It just feels dreary and empty to me, possibly thanks to just how very centralized the concessions are. It's almost too big for what it is. I think Detroit is a better model. Much cleaner, brighter, and more pleasant. There's enough centralization to make it easy, but there should be something to do near your gate. (Mind you, I've only ever been airside at either place. And I've spent slightly more time in DTW than BNA.)
I’m sure they have some good lessons learned at KC to supply to the group here.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Nov 04, 2022^ Yeah, the LGA remodel and especially the DTW terminal should be the models to follow here. KC's terminal is also pretty blah to me, so to me the visit there seems more like Lambert officials getting some first-hand experience at redoing terminals at an active airport (that is fairly close to here making the trip easy) more so than getting design inspiration.
I'll third this opinion. With the land constraints at STL, I think DTW is the best model for us. DTW's A concourse is super long (somewhere in the neighborhood of about 4,900 feet), but they have that nice ExpressTram though._nomad_ wrote: ↑Nov 04, 2022I second your DTW as a model opinion. Despite how long their linear terminal is, it's easy to navigate and doesn't feel like there's choke points to get very crowded.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Nov 04, 2022^^Nashville isn't a model I'd personally want to follow. It just feels dreary and empty to me, possibly thanks to just how very centralized the concessions are. It's almost too big for what it is. I think Detroit is a better model. Much cleaner, brighter, and more pleasant. There's enough centralization to make it easy, but there should be something to do near your gate. (Mind you, I've only ever been airside at either place. And I've spent slightly more time in DTW than BNA.)
What would those lessons be?jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 04, 2022I’m sure they have some good lessons learned at KC to supply to the group here.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Nov 04, 2022^ Yeah, the LGA remodel and especially the DTW terminal should be the models to follow here. KC's terminal is also pretty blah to me, so to me the visit there seems more like Lambert officials getting some first-hand experience at redoing terminals at an active airport (that is fairly close to here making the trip easy) more so than getting design inspiration.
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^Using excess capacity to allow shuffling gate assignments so you can demolish one terminal (or concourse) while still using others? I expect there will be some firms gaining some real familiarity with the logistical challenges, and it feels as though this project is primed to take off just as that one is wrapping up, which could well be good for everyone concerned.
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Have to agree that DTW would be a fantastic model, although I definitely do like airports with some kind of central mall/food court area. DEN has terminal designs that I particularly appreciate as well, mall/food court in middle entry space with long terminals going two directions out (still plenty of food and shopping in there too)
DTW would be a great model to go off of and take inspiration for sure. It's been a while since I've connected through there and it's always been the non-Delta terminal so I can't say I know how that terminal's design compares to the one I went through. Regardless, it did look pretty spacious and bright - things that we will need in our new terminal when it is being built.
That being said, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a large centralized food/shopping area within the new terminal. It would make the terminal look and feel larger (does this qualify as a "TWSS"?
) but the obvious drawback I can see happening here is the crowding that would take place when people are entering and exiting the secured side. It may not be as big of an issue when the terminal is newly opened, but if passenger numbers do continue to rise, then it could be a potential issue. All speculation and assumptions at this point.
Another airport that would be a good model to look towards would be MSY. I loved the flow and spaciousness of the new terminal and how well they laid out the concessions across the terminal (including a semi-centralized area for food and shopping). I was also impressed with the layout of the baggage claim section there (along with LGA's new baggage claim area) so hopefully our team here can also look for inspiration in designing and laying out the baggage claim areas.
That being said, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a large centralized food/shopping area within the new terminal. It would make the terminal look and feel larger (does this qualify as a "TWSS"?
) but the obvious drawback I can see happening here is the crowding that would take place when people are entering and exiting the secured side. It may not be as big of an issue when the terminal is newly opened, but if passenger numbers do continue to rise, then it could be a potential issue. All speculation and assumptions at this point.Another airport that would be a good model to look towards would be MSY. I loved the flow and spaciousness of the new terminal and how well they laid out the concessions across the terminal (including a semi-centralized area for food and shopping). I was also impressed with the layout of the baggage claim section there (along with LGA's new baggage claim area) so hopefully our team here can also look for inspiration in designing and laying out the baggage claim areas.
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Looks like the Lambert website has been hacked? When I attempt to go there my internet service provider says this is a malicious site.