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PostNov 01, 2022#8951

We can all run on all kinds of make belief stuff, crime is red states is far worse then in blue states, what are AG Schmitt done on crime? By law he can prosecute cases that Gardner doesn’t, where is he?

And as it is customary, the opposition party wins in midterms, gop will take the house and I think the senate will come down to 1 seat and it’s a coin flip right now.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8952

^I didn't say anything about federal elections in particular, that's in your head. I said Democrats, as in the political party writ large. 

I take your point that Cori Bush, for example, has little power to change state or local laws, but she (and most if not all national level Democrats) nonetheless chose to adopt "defund the police" as part of the national policy platform. They then did *****-all about it, with a few exceptions at the local level. They're about to get hammered by the Rs in-part because of that, which will of course set the cause back several years if not longer.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8953

Not sure if your statement is accurate but if you expect the State AG to prosecute theft, assault, homicide, etc cases in St Louis City/County…is simply ridiculous.  The legal system is set up to handle these crimes and had been prosecuting these crimes for decades.  And let’s be honest, Democrats would lose their mind if a Republican State AG took over prosecution in the City.  Could you imagine Gardner handing over case files to Schmitt.  That would be some made for TV action.  

Anyways, I think police have been undercut by politics and activism making their job much harder to perform.  There’s also a lack of respect for police now in this country.  Almost creating a rebellion against them.  Plus the aforementioned prosecution issue which disincentives the police to arrest criminals.  

The red state vs blue state argument is grand standing and a crap argument as red politics can easily point that the blue counties within the red state are the high crime areas.  Let’s have a better discussion than this.  

As for guns, I don’t know what’s right, it’s an impossible issue.  Take guns away, then only criminals have them.  No way that works.  Flip side is current laws which allows for just about anyone to have a gun to defend themselves/ act as a deterrent.  Clearly isn’t working either but at least you can defend yourself if need be.  I’m sure there’s a middle ground, but neither side will be happy with the result, so like everything else in this Country, the two tribes will just stand their ground in their own corners with their arms crossed and yell at each other.  Just like abortion rights which has obvious middle ground but both sides are digging their heals in.  Sad state of affairs in this country.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8954


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PostNov 01, 2022#8955

kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
Not sure if your statement is accurate but if you expect the State AG to prosecute theft, assault, homicide, etc cases in St Louis City/County…is simply ridiculous.  The legal system is set up to handle these crimes and had been prosecuting these crimes for decades.  And let’s be honest, Democrats would lose their mind if a Republican State AG took over prosecution in the City.  Could you imagine Gardner handing over case files to Schmitt.  That would be some made for TV action.  

Anyways, I think police have been undercut by politics and activism making their job much harder to perform.  There’s also a lack of respect for police now in this country.  Almost creating a rebellion against them.  Plus the aforementioned prosecution issue which disincentives the police to arrest criminals.  

The red state vs blue state argument is grand standing and a crap argument as red politics can easily point that the blue counties within the red state are the high crime areas.  Let’s have a better discussion than this.  

As for guns, I don’t know what’s right, it’s an impossible issue.  Take guns away, then only criminals have them.  No way that works.  Flip side is current laws which allows for just about anyone to have a gun to defend themselves/ act as a deterrent.  Clearly isn’t working either but at least you can defend yourself if need be.  I’m sure there’s a middle ground, but neither side will be happy with the result, so like everything else in this Country, the two tribes will just stand their ground in their own corners with their arms crossed and yell at each other.  Just like abortion rights which has obvious middle ground but both sides are digging their heals in.  Sad state of affairs in this country.
I think this argument is reaching for a "centrist" solution in cases where that isn't the most workable or where that isn't the political center at all. We need to recognize that the problem with trust in police is not all politics, that those in the force have done a significant amount to undercut themselves both because of misbehavior and the unwillingness to hold that misbehavior accountable. We can blame politicians or activists or whoever as long as we want, but as long as there isn't accountability there isn't going to be trust.

I don't think state comparisons are crap because the overwhelming majority of law and law enforcement issues come down to state policy. Comparing state power vs. municipal power when it comes to law enforcement is crap, because in the end municipalities all have their hands tied by state policy when it comes to these issues.

Guns is not an impossible issue, they need not be a theoretical issue because we have countless examples from throughout this country and the world as to how gun policy translates to crime. We can easily see what works and what doesn't, at least at a macro level. There may be an argument as to whether what trade offs are worthwhile, but to say knowing what gun policies work is an impossible issue is inaccurate.

I would like to know what the obvious middle ground is on abortion rights, because I can't see where compromise is found between those who want reproductive rights and those who want to classify any and all abortions as murder.

I don't want to come off as shouty or ranting, I just want to make the point that while someone might see their own views as a moderate centrist position, that doesn't mean others will see it that way. But it is an important viewpoint, just like all fact-based opinions, to have at the table in a discussion.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8956

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
Pretty funny. We need more comedy.

But like everything these days, you can’t take anyone at their word. So, I did a quick read about gun laws in Australia. They left it to their states to decide gun laws. People need licenses to have a gun. Not much different than Missouri. Certainly a little more restrictive though. Glad they could find middle ground.

However, Chicago for example, has very restrictive gun laws which is clearly not working.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8957

kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
Pretty funny. We need more comedy.

But like everything these days, you can’t take anyone at their word. So, I did a quick read about gun laws in Australia. They left it to their states to decide gun laws. People need licenses to have a gun. Not much different than Missouri. Certainly a little more restrictive though. Glad they could find middle ground.

However, Chicago for example, has very restrictive gun laws which is clearly not working.
I suggest you read a little further, Australian gun laws are much different than the system we have in Missouri. Chicago and Illinois by contrast may have stricter gun laws than St Louis and Missouri (and correspondingly a lower gun crime rate), but to call them "very restrictive" is a joke.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8958

_nomad_ wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
Pretty funny. We need more comedy.

But like everything these days, you can’t take anyone at their word. So, I did a quick read about gun laws in Australia. They left it to their states to decide gun laws. People need licenses to have a gun. Not much different than Missouri. Certainly a little more restrictive though. Glad they could find middle ground.

However, Chicago for example, has very restrictive gun laws which is clearly not working.
I suggest you read a little further, Australian gun laws are much different than the system we have in Missouri. Chicago and Illinois by contrast may have stricter gun laws than St Louis and Missouri (and correspondingly a lower gun crime rate), but to call them "very restrictive" is a joke.
You’re right. I thought Chicago had pretty strict gun laws.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8959


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PostNov 01, 2022#8960

Guessing those Indiana guns are still part of Chicagoland. So 70 percent of the guns come from Chicagoland. Who cares. And who knows if the stats are genuine. Who trusts the media any more. Anyone can create (then share) an article to support their narrative.

Can’t we get past this worthless left vs right sh*t and start having dialogue about why St Louis needs to fix crime, poverty, sh*tty school districts, underperforming police and prosecutors, absolute lack of leadership, etc?

Left won’t change the right. Right won’t change the left. Independents are centrist who end up deciding the elections. Politics are a waste of time to fight about as neither side wins the argument.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8961

kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
Guessing those Indiana guns are still part of Chicagoland.  So 70 percent of the guns come from Chicagoland.  Who cares.  And who knows if the stats are genuine.  Who trusts the media any more.  Anyone can create (then share) an article to support their narrative.  

Can’t we get past this worthless left vs right sh*t and start having dialogue about why St Louis needs to fix crime, poverty, sh*tty school districts, underperforming police and prosecutors, absolute lack of leadership, etc?

Left won’t change the right.  Right won’t change the left.  Independents are centrist who end up deciding the elections.  Politics are a waste of time to fight about as neither side wins the argument.
Are you serious? Indiana has lax gun laws, it’s why so many are found at crime scenes in another state and the data is from the ATF…..the data is linked to the atf site

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PostNov 01, 2022#8962

dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
Guessing those Indiana guns are still part of Chicagoland.  So 70 percent of the guns come from Chicagoland.  Who cares.  And who knows if the stats are genuine.  Who trusts the media any more.  Anyone can create (then share) an article to support their narrative.  

Can’t we get past this worthless left vs right sh*t and start having dialogue about why St Louis needs to fix crime, poverty, sh*tty school districts, underperforming police and prosecutors, absolute lack of leadership, etc?

Left won’t change the right.  Right won’t change the left.  Independents are centrist who end up deciding the elections.  Politics are a waste of time to fight about as neither side wins the argument.
Are you serious? Indiana has lax gun laws, it’s why so many are found at crime scenes in another state and the data is from the ATF…..the data is linked to the atf site
Ok, great, what’s your point? So, because some guns come from Indiana…Chicago and their criminals get a pass? Who cares where the guns come from? When do we start blaming the criminals? Or the problems that created the criminals (before they decide to use guns)?

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PostNov 01, 2022#8963

kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022

Guessing those Indiana guns are still part of Chicagoland.  So 70 percent of the guns come from Chicagoland.  Who cares.  And who knows if the stats are genuine.  Who trusts the media any more.  Anyone can create (then share) an article to support their narrative.  

Can’t we get past this worthless left vs right sh*t and start having dialogue about why St Louis needs to fix crime, poverty, sh*tty school districts, underperforming police and prosecutors, absolute lack of leadership, etc?

Left won’t change the right.  Right won’t change the left.  Independents are centrist who end up deciding the elections.  Politics are a waste of time to fight about as neither side wins the argument.
Are you serious? Indiana has lax gun laws, it’s why so many are found at crime scenes in another state and the data is from the ATF…..the data is linked to the atf site
  Who cares where the guns come from?  
^Really??? Right back at you.  Accessibility to guns will always mean more gun crime.  Free carry is a double edged sword, so any perspective that says "Gun control takes guns away from the good guys cause the bad guys will always get them" is fallacious at minimum.  Gun control laws allow citizens in good standing to go about exercising their constitutional freedoms while the bad actors get pressed.  A+B does indeed = C

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PostNov 01, 2022#8964

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
kbshapiro wrote:
Nov 01, 2022
dbInSouthCity wrote:
Nov 01, 2022

Are you serious? Indiana has lax gun laws, it’s why so many are found at crime scenes in another state and the data is from the ATF…..the data is linked to the atf site
  Who cares where the guns come from?  
^Really??? Right back at you.  Accessibility to guns will always mean more gun crime.  Free carry is a double edged sword, so any perspective that says "Gun control takes guns away from the good guys cause the bad guys will always get them" is fallacious at minimum.  Gun control laws allow citizens in good standing to go about exercising their constitutional freedoms while the bad actors get pressed.  A+B does indeed = C
I agree with you. Read my posts. We need good gun control laws.

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PostNov 01, 2022#8965

apologies for the flip reaction.  i must unlearn what i have [pretended] to learn. 

PostNov 01, 2022#8966

And yes, i would assume East Chicago and Gary are likely in the Chicagoland MSA...

PostNov 01, 2022#8967

Can anyone tell me why Denver and NYC are able to pass gun control laws at the municipal level that prohibit the carry or transport of certain weapons and STL cannot?  
Does it conflict with our new state law?

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PostNov 02, 2022#8968

^ Missouri state law basically says there are no gun laws

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PostNov 02, 2022#8969

MRNHS wrote:Urban Chestnut was burglarized last night, doesn't seem like there was much damage thankfully.  There seems to be a very large spike in these types of crimes lately and very little return for the criminals (most places don't keep much cash on hand).  However, the reputational damage to the city continues to mount.  I'm certainly no expert so I don't pretend to have the solution, but the fact that it happens (nearly) exclusively in the city tells me the criminals know the cops are short staffed and are under-patrolling.  In this case, it really does appear that crime is following the boundaries or we would see it happen in other locales.  Would love to hear opinions on how to prevent this more as my fear is all that will come out of this is quite a few less restaurants/businesses in the city.  
Crime is a symptom of poverty and misery, which are a deliberate bipartisan policy choice by our government. They love immiserating workers to compel them to work at the factory for crap wages, and then when people get desperate and disillusioned with society the crime is an excuse to expand the police force. It's win-win for everyone in power. It goes back to the Enclosure Movement in the 1500s, when nobles staffed their new factories by criminalizing unemployment and upturned the historic stability of subsistence farming.

SB in BH wrote:
dbInSouthCity wrote:
framer wrote:
I'm afraid this is the kind of talk that's going to result in massive nation-wide losses for the Democrats next week.
Reality talk?  Are the police delicate daisies who can’t be criticized?  The truth is the truth I don’t care if democrats lose 500 elections
On this issue, democrats losing elections is a good thing. They're quick to adopt activist slogans and do other BS stunts in the moment and then run away from the issue as soon as that moment's past, squandering the opportunity for real reform. I'm convinced this apparent ineptitude is in fact intentional. They deserve to be punished for it.
Their purpose is to harness and dissipate revolutionary energy. It happened in 2014 and they funneled all the activist energy into useless "vote" campaigns. Remember when Obama intervened to stop an NBA-led general strike?

So, of course they lose elections. The right-wing hates them for being associated* with advocating good policies, but since Democrats don't actually do anything they don't benefit from grateful constituents.

*I can't actually say Democrats advocate good policies because they usually don't, I mean how many Democrats besides Cori Bush actually say "Defund the Police"?

framer wrote:I'm not taking about federal elections. I'm talking about the thousands of local elections happening all over the country, where Republicans can run on a tough-on-crime platform and win the vote of the average American who's tired of the recent nation-wide crime surge.

I had thought that the abortion issue would save the day for Democrats, but that doesn't seem to be happening. We'll see next week, I guess
It's hard to say why anyone would vote for Democrats because of abortion when the Democrats are currently the majority (for the n'th time since Roe v Wade) and still haven't passed an abortion law. They even had a couple extra months due to the SCOTUS leak and they still had no strategy except "send us money and vote in November". Obama for example explicitly promised to pass a Roe v Wade bill and then just didn't do it despite a bigger majority than we have now. Roe v Wade has been on the ballot for fifty years, Democrats have won more than they've lost including a national majority in 5 of the last 6 elections and yet Lucy just says to keep trying to kick the football.

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PostNov 02, 2022#8970

Appears hostage or hold-out situation unfolding at Grand and Chippewa.  SWAT on scene, large police presence. 

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PostNov 03, 2022#8971

^^Great comment, Mark. Really reveals that the "lesser of two evils" argument for the Ds is total horseshit. The parties of just the two faces of the same Janus-faced ruling class.

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PostNov 03, 2022#8972

While neither party is perfect, nor even great, it's a denial of reality to say they're the same. I can list democratic policies that have passed that have improved my life and GOP policies that have done the reverse. We can harp and moan all day, but I know what makes my life worse vs. what doesn't and in some cases even improves it. It can be argued that neither have your best interests at heart, and I may even believe that, but for those without the privileged position of being unaffected by government policy it's clear which parties actions have a positive effect on our lives.

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PostNov 03, 2022#8973

_nomad_ wrote:
Nov 03, 2022
While neither party is perfect, nor even great, it's a denial of reality to say they're the same. I can list democratic policies that have passed that have improved my life and GOP policies that have done the reverse. We can harp and moan all day, but I know what makes my life worse vs. what doesn't and in some cases even improves it. It can be argued that neither have your best interests at heart, and I may even believe that, but for those without the privileged position of being unaffected by government policy it's clear which parties actions have a positive effect on our lives.
I too prefer the party that shivs me in the ribs and offers me a Band-Aid over the party that smashes me in the face with a hammer. Maybe if I vote harder for the former the stabbings will be less frequent and the band-aids bigger the next time.

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PostNov 03, 2022#8974


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PostNov 03, 2022#8975

SB in BH wrote:
Nov 03, 2022
_nomad_ wrote:
Nov 03, 2022
While neither party is perfect, nor even great, it's a denial of reality to say they're the same. I can list democratic policies that have passed that have improved my life and GOP policies that have done the reverse. We can harp and moan all day, but I know what makes my life worse vs. what doesn't and in some cases even improves it. It can be argued that neither have your best interests at heart, and I may even believe that, but for those without the privileged position of being unaffected by government policy it's clear which parties actions have a positive effect on our lives.
I too prefer the party that shivs me in the ribs and offers me a Band-Aid over the party that smashes me in the face with a hammer. Maybe if I vote harder for the former the stabbings will be less frequent and the band-aids bigger the next time.
I'm just curious as to what is shiving you in the ribs

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