urbanSTL

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

2:44 PM - Jun 29

“After-hours crowd”….

Is it wrong to assume you have an issue with me pointing out the fact that crowds at 7 PM are different than crowds after midnight into the early morning? If so, you have not paid attention to the fact that many a bad thing has happened downtown in the early hours of the morning. Also, if you are jumping to the conclusion that the comment had a racial aspect, you are incorrect in your assumption. 

If I am jumping to conclusions, I apologize!

I’m not the blame the state guy on everything…

But we have too many carrying issues. The city can enforce to an extent but can only do so much when you can live in the county and have a firearm rather easily. Lots of these late night crowd instances that happen are people with legal firearms, just conceal carrying illegally because they are in the city

It is never good for the headline to have something like this happen around an event. The initial reports may have exaggerated how close it was to the stadium but we can’t really afford to have this happen anytime, anywhere downtown, understanding the country we live in, it could never be zero forever but instances like this do a lot of harm

We need to have downtown on lock this weekend for the 4th. We have a great event that should be awesome

It does suck that every time we are about to have a massive event downtown it seems that something happens right before that will scare off 25% of the crowd


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Not trying to minimize what happened too close to Energizer Park for comfort ast night but if you Google "Shooting near Stadium" you come up with quite a few similar stories that occurred near college football stadiums, a high school track meet, etc.

Thats the old plaza square area Who owns those buildings,  is it still a Tampa FL company? Just curious

Honestly I’m more worried about the seemingly endless dog attacks in Tower Grove area. I’m not sure why residents aren’t demanding answers from the City. I won’t be visiting the area until that ends.

pattimagee wrote: ↑

3:27 PM - Jun 29

Baltimore Jack wrote: ↑

3:24 PM - Jun 29

Not trying to minimize what happened too close to Energizer Park for comfort ast night but if you Google "Shooting near Stadium" you come up with quite a few similar stories that occurred near college football stadiums, a high school track meet, etc.

This is what I was going to say... this is an "article model" that the news stations know works to get clicks... 

Place many people feel safe being + Shooting nearby = clicks/revenue

Completely agree. The news makes it sound a thousand times worse. However, the videos of kids ducking under seats at Energizer Park is just sad. 

Based upon the amount of shell casings on the street, that was a powerful weapon being fired. That had to be loud AF. I would not want to be down there with the kids. While I do not want this to ever happen, if it did have to happen, at least it wasn't a City game or Olympic game with a sold out crowd. 

I was downtown with my kids on the 4th a few years ago. I don't get rattled easily, but the chaos, fireworks shooting over my car at stoplights, traffic gridlock, the endless number of teens running around had my head on a swivel. My kids were super-scared. I hope the PD has a solid plan to contain this, as I expect big crowds for this weekend's shows. I am hoping for a fun & uneventful (with regards to crime) 4th. 

gone corporate wrote: ↑

4:19 PM - Jun 29

^The Celebrate STL Fourth of July parade and weekend event on the Arch Grounds will have a ridiculously strong and conspicuous combined security presence. 

Great to hear! This event is great & SHOULD go on without major issues. 

That makes me happy.

A shooting near a minor league soccer game will have a greater negative affect on St. Louis than an international fan being the victim of a drive by shooting in KC.

Also always a good reminder that Indianapolis has like yearly mass shootings downtown that literally no one talks about. 2 women were just murdered a block away from Monument Circle. It will have no affect on the city ofcourse.

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StlAlex wrote:A shooting near a minor league soccer game will have a greater negative affect on St. Louis than an international fan being the victim of a drive by shooting in KC.

Also always a good reminder that Indianapolis has like yearly mass shootings downtown that literally no one talks about. 2 women were just murdered a block away from Monument Circle. It will have no affect on the city ofcourse.

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To be fair, it is our own people’s fault

More and more, I realize we have sunk into and manifested an appearance of our downtown and region, more than anyone else projects on it

The surveys that come out to purport some objective metric about downtown or the region that looks really negative is really just a survey of our own metro’s residents and how they view such topics, which come out more negatively than other metros

Sure, there are residents in other metros that experience this on different levels. There are a few that I think do compare as negatively as St. Louis, but we certainly stand out near the top

And it is showing up in our sporting event attendance numbers downtown, corporate office decisions, new development, etc

I agree, as a transplant, that the hyper focus put in these type of negative events and the effect it has on people’s spending of their time and money is larger or at least as large as anywhere I’ve been or lived




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It's often said that police aren't good at preventing crime. They are more built to investigate after the fact. Why weren't there police on foot nearby to de-escalate?

If they can't prevent someone from spraying bullets during a busy daytime event, a couple of blocks from STLMPD HQ, then why would we continue to allocate them more and more resources?

ccbstl wrote:It's often said that police aren't good at preventing crime. They are more built to investigate after the fact. Why weren't there police on foot nearby to de-escalate?

If they can't prevent someone from spraying bullets during a busy daytime event, a couple of blocks from STLMPD HQ, then why would we continue to allocate them more and more resources?

Police aren't good at preventing crime because police are not equipped to handle the root causes of crime, which is poverty and broken families (these are the main causes in STL, though there's many more), which causes social disorganization and leads people to do things that they wouldn't have done had they had a better upbringing.

Police are generally good at investigating and helping prosecute, but that doesn't actually stop the creation of new criminals. Add on to that our prison system is actually far better at hardening lower level criminals and making them even more socially disorganized, which is partially how a man spent 8 years in prison for armed robbery in North Carolina and came out a schizophrenic murderer. He got no treatment for his mental problems, he probably was mistreated in prison, and he certainly was not rehabilitated. And as a result, a woman is now dead because the government failed at basic theories of crime and punishment.

So police are good at catching and investigating criminals, but the prison system is horrific at rehabilitating them, meaning they get out just as bad or worse, and we have virtually no large scale efforts (there are some small scale efforts) to meaningfully intervene in the cycle of poverty that helps ensure criminality festers.

Police being visible, however, has been shown to reduce crime in a localized area. You're less likely to run a red light if you see a police car on the corner. Crime is basically non-existent at Cardinals games or the entrance to the Arch because there's such a high police presence. I don't know the details behind where police were at this soccer game though.

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I think that's a bit simplistic, there are specialized units who aren't doing the day-to-day patrols, who do prevent crime. they go after known criminals, which are more often then not to repeat crimes.  

dbInSouthCity wrote:I think that's a bit simplistic, there are specialized units who aren't doing the day-to-day patrols, who do prevent crime. they go after known criminals, which are more often then not to repeat crimes.  

Sure, but that's still inherently reactionary. And it doesn't really matter when they catch him because he goes away for 10 years and comes out worse than he went in at an alarming rate.

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Road rage killing at the I-64 exit ramp in O'Fallon, MO yesterday.

Ballwin public works official is charged in fatal road rage shooting in O'Fallon Officials say Farek called 911 shortly after 3:30 p.m., telling dispatchers, "someone just attacked me, and I just shot him." He later told police that he was punched through the window of his car, and that his face was hurting, according to the probable cause statement. But St. Charles County Prosecutor Joe McCulloch said evidence shows Farek was the aggressor Tuesday. Farek sped past Sherman's Chevy Equinox on the left shoulder of the highway and then immediately hit the brakes of his Toyota Prius, miles before the Winghaven exit, McCulloch said. 

total crime through June 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

3:45 PM - 16 days ago

total crime through June 

Thanks, DB. Any insight on the growth in "society" crime ? Was there a methodological change, or is this tied to on-the-ground phenomena, e.g., more homelessness? Thanks!

I'm pretty sure stuff like enforcing the curfew could result in a boost in society crime. Things like prostitution, drug use, illegal gambling, or crimes by corporations typically also count as society crimes.

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SB in BH wrote: ↑

4:03 PM - 16 days ago

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

3:45 PM - 16 days ago

total crime through June 

Thanks, DB. Any insight on the growth in "society" crime ? Was there a methodological change, or is this tied to on-the-ground phenomena, e.g., more homelessness? Thanks!

Pretty much all of the growth is in the Weapons law violation category, so more are getting picked up on that before they use the weapon, which correlates with violent crime going down. 

I don't see STL ending the month with a YoY decline. Will be interesting to see what the police have to say once "their" record drops.