PostAug 26, 2022#51
Just want to throw this out there since it's relevant to this thread. I've been in Kansas City for several weeks now and went home to St. Louis this past weekend for the holiday and man, three weeks rewired my head a bit.
St. Louis feels really dense now and extra crowded. In particular, me visiting the Central West End threw a curveball to me because it felt like Chicago a bit. Even the neighborhood where my family lives feels dense, and it's not even dense. It's a strange feeling since I was used to all of this and then I leave for three weeks and come back to something that feels weird. It was as much of a shock to me as seeing Washington DC or London. It'll be interesting to see how the perspective changes as time goes on, but I don't know what I like more, the dense old feel of St. Louis or the more spread out and young feel of Kansas City.
Euclid in the CWE felt foreign to me now. The mix of mansions next to commercial buildings and near apartment towers feels strange now.
I do admit that both are special in their own ways and both appeal to me but maybe this feeling is a sign. Over the past year, I've grown fond of smaller cities and towns just because things move slower there.
Despite all of these weird feelings, my favorite building anywhere remains one I would never complain about - the Continental Life Building. The surrounding neighborhood may feel strange now to me, but that building is to me like seeing the Arch. I know I'm home then. Lol.
St. Louis feels really dense now and extra crowded. In particular, me visiting the Central West End threw a curveball to me because it felt like Chicago a bit. Even the neighborhood where my family lives feels dense, and it's not even dense. It's a strange feeling since I was used to all of this and then I leave for three weeks and come back to something that feels weird. It was as much of a shock to me as seeing Washington DC or London. It'll be interesting to see how the perspective changes as time goes on, but I don't know what I like more, the dense old feel of St. Louis or the more spread out and young feel of Kansas City.
Euclid in the CWE felt foreign to me now. The mix of mansions next to commercial buildings and near apartment towers feels strange now.
I do admit that both are special in their own ways and both appeal to me but maybe this feeling is a sign. Over the past year, I've grown fond of smaller cities and towns just because things move slower there.
Despite all of these weird feelings, my favorite building anywhere remains one I would never complain about - the Continental Life Building. The surrounding neighborhood may feel strange now to me, but that building is to me like seeing the Arch. I know I'm home then. Lol.
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"You can never go home again, Oatman... but I guess you can shop there. "
- John Cusak, Grosse Pointe Blank
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I felt the same way when I left KC for STL -- that things were far more dense in St. Louis -- but I also found St. Louis to be a strikingly beautiful city in comparison.
Returns to KC have made that city feel spread out, parking rich, and architecturally boring. You start with the homes with wood siding and big lots in Midtown KC and it gets no better the further out you go. When I go back, I'm amazed by how similar KC streets can feel to places like Omaha or Wichita.
They're different vibes but I'm definitely happier with the red brick homes that are pounded in on streets boom, boom, boom with little space between them.
Returns to KC have made that city feel spread out, parking rich, and architecturally boring. You start with the homes with wood siding and big lots in Midtown KC and it gets no better the further out you go. When I go back, I'm amazed by how similar KC streets can feel to places like Omaha or Wichita.
They're different vibes but I'm definitely happier with the red brick homes that are pounded in on streets boom, boom, boom with little space between them.
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I also think the Continental is a signature structure. Funny enough, when on family road trips my parents didn't announce we were home at the River/Arch. They made a huge proclamation when we passed the Anheuser-Busch eagle billboard and mid-town.
Ha! That's funny. When I was a kid, returning from a road trip, we'd all try to be the first to see the Arch and yell out "Gateway Arch First!".
I know exactly how you feel Chris. I live in Tampa now and even though it is booming with development it will never have the dense, old city feel that St. Louis has. Even the inner ring suburbs of St. Louis feel urban compared to most newer cities. The roads are much narrower, the infrastructure is grander, and the layers of development give St. Louis the feel of a much bigger metropolitan area than it is. As the city and inner ring suburbs continue to get new infill, I'd imagine St. Louis will have an even more intense feel.chriss752 wrote: ↑Sep 07, 2022Just want to throw this out there since it's relevant to this thread. I've been in Kansas City for several weeks now and went home to St. Louis this past weekend for the holiday and man, three weeks rewired my head a bit.
St. Louis feels really dense now and extra crowded. In particular, me visiting the Central West End threw a curveball to me because it felt like Chicago a bit. Even the neighborhood where my family lives feels dense, and it's not even dense. It's a strange feeling since I was used to all of this and then I leave for three weeks and come back to something that feels weird. It was as much of a shock to me as seeing Washington DC or London. It'll be interesting to see how the perspective changes as time goes on, but I don't know what I like more, the dense old feel of St. Louis or the more spread out and young feel of Kansas City.
Euclid in the CWE felt foreign to me now. The mix of mansions next to commercial buildings and near apartment towers feels strange now.
I do admit that both are special in their own ways and both appeal to me but maybe this feeling is a sign. Over the past year, I've grown fond of smaller cities and towns just because things move slower there.
Despite all of these weird feelings, my favorite building anywhere remains one I would never complain about - the Continental Life Building. The surrounding neighborhood may feel strange now to me, but that building is to me like seeing the Arch. I know I'm home then. Lol.
When I was younger and went to Blues and Cards games with my folks we’d always try and pass the AB Eagle while it’s wings were flapping so the teams would have good luck.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Sep 07, 2022I also think the Continental is a signature structure. Funny enough, when on family road trips my parents didn't announce we were home at the River/Arch. They made a huge proclamation when we passed the Anheuser-Busch eagle billboard and mid-town.
Honestly the view of midtown coming down highway 40 east is more visually pleasing than seeing the arch coming across the Mississippi. I love how dense it all is and the way it culminates with the continental life building.
100%.
Re-sharing this quote from the tower crane thread (and it’s old, but still applies in my opinion):
STLrainbow wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2018^ driving westbound on 40/64 is pretty cool; great views by the IKEA too with the 100 crane; if Koman gets that Cortex building right by the highway that will be really an eye-opener for folks passing through. Anyway, I think that drive separates significantly denser Saint Louis from pretenders like Nashville and Indy.
I'm a pilot and it's pretty incredible to see the central corridor from all different angles. Approaching from north to south when you can see the whole span of the city one can see just how vast it is. There are only a handful of cities with this much depth of density. It's also fun to be over the top of the city and look down the corridor directly it almost seems endless.
We moved here in 2012 to live in the CWE and loved every day of the 8 years we were in the neighborhood. My favorite memory is from a weekend in 2019 at the peak while all the staple joints were still open. Every street corner had live music playing, the area around whole foods was packed with shoppers from near and far, all the patio restaurants were full, and just a general awesome vibe in the CWE with people everywhere.
The diversity of the CWE combined with FP across the street and most urban amenities makes it one of the top areas in the country, world IMO. I was excited to finally see it recognized as a top neighborhood a few years back, would have been nice if the enthusiasm was shared amongst locals.
We just returned from 2 weeks in Portugal, while we loved it, there seemed to be a lack of urban parks and general green spaces that we are fortunate to have here.
We moved here in 2012 to live in the CWE and loved every day of the 8 years we were in the neighborhood. My favorite memory is from a weekend in 2019 at the peak while all the staple joints were still open. Every street corner had live music playing, the area around whole foods was packed with shoppers from near and far, all the patio restaurants were full, and just a general awesome vibe in the CWE with people everywhere.
The diversity of the CWE combined with FP across the street and most urban amenities makes it one of the top areas in the country, world IMO. I was excited to finally see it recognized as a top neighborhood a few years back, would have been nice if the enthusiasm was shared amongst locals.
We just returned from 2 weeks in Portugal, while we loved it, there seemed to be a lack of urban parks and general green spaces that we are fortunate to have here.
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I agree about the impressive view on Westbound 40-64 through Midtown and the CWE. When I drove for Uber and Lyft I had several experiences where out of towners would comment on it. They almost always asked about the Basilica. It looks so majestic and really stands out even from a distance. I have nothing but love for our nearby cities like Kansas City, Nashville, Louisville, Indy and Memphis. But when I've heard that neighborhood or that in those cities are "like the CWE" the comparison has always fallen short.
An acquaintance of mine is considering a move from LA to STL and has a short term rental in the Central West End the next two months. Of course fall is the best season in the area hands down and spending it in that neighborhood can only make it better.
An acquaintance of mine is considering a move from LA to STL and has a short term rental in the Central West End the next two months. Of course fall is the best season in the area hands down and spending it in that neighborhood can only make it better.
I agree with everyone’s impressions about St. Louis’ density compared to KC. St. Louis’ big city bones are especially apparent when driving into the city from the east coast along I-70. Along the way, you pass through Columbus and Indianapolis- two cities that look relatively good on paper in terms of growth (at least compared to other Midwestern cities), but man, they look and feel so minor league compared to St. Louis, and it really hits you as you drive into St. Louis from the East Side. St. Louis is an urban MONSTER compared to Columbus and Indy- the scale and depth of STL’s density and grandeur is on a different level than it’s Midwestern I-70 peers (KC included). Columbus and Indy feel so new and one-dimensional to me- nothing really stands out about them. To me, they feel like big towns that just grew up along the interstate. Imagine a New Yorker road-tripping coast to coast- what would they find compelling about those cities as they pass through them? They’re just average American cities without much distinction. Then as you enter St. Louis, and BOOM! It really hits you and anyone with eyes can see its a distinguished, layered, classic, special city, The St. Louis skyline may be a bit anemic for a city its size, but it still packs a punch, and the Arch is simply mesmerizing. The urban landscape surrounds you in all directions as you drive westbound on Farty. It has an aura. When you enter St. Louis you know you’re in a REAL city- old and distinguished and it gives you a sense that you can’t NOT stop for a selfie and explore this famous American city. St. Louis is cool without even trying (and we all know it doesn’t try! 
)… When I’m bored I like to fly over different cities on Google Earth- St. Louis will always be my favorite and I love It so f’ing much!
)… When I’m bored I like to fly over different cities on Google Earth- St. Louis will always be my favorite and I love It so f’ing much!- 1,614
What I like most about the westward drive on 64 is that as a passenger, if you look north you see a new cameo of the city at every major thoroughfare.
Memorial - boom, arch, old cathedral and skyline wall.
Broadway/4th - building cavern, old courthouse, BPV
8th street - Busch and Cupples
Tucker - Street canyon with City Hall, Park Pacific, Slu Law, Civil Courts
14th - Enterprise center and Cityview behind
18th - union station and MLS Stadium
By the time you get to jefferson yo start looking around and see SLU med south and midtown north.
My boss who occasionally flies in from Germany without fail mentions how "St. Louis doesn't stop." or "never ends" and he means the dense high rise spine going all the way to 170. Pretty cool.
Memorial - boom, arch, old cathedral and skyline wall.
Broadway/4th - building cavern, old courthouse, BPV
8th street - Busch and Cupples
Tucker - Street canyon with City Hall, Park Pacific, Slu Law, Civil Courts
14th - Enterprise center and Cityview behind
18th - union station and MLS Stadium
By the time you get to jefferson yo start looking around and see SLU med south and midtown north.
My boss who occasionally flies in from Germany without fail mentions how "St. Louis doesn't stop." or "never ends" and he means the dense high rise spine going all the way to 170. Pretty cool.
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^The first time I really realized it was from the top of the arch when I was . . . twenty? I was looking out and realized that there were these significant skyline bumps at Midtown, CWE, and even then already Clayton. You can, of course, find cities that beat it to pieces, but really not so many. Chicago, sure. New York, of course. Philadelphia. Seattle is really beginning to these days. But even quite sizable cities like Denver and Minneapolis don't really give me that impression of length.
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I always tell out-of-towners to take 64/40 when driving through the city going east/west. We're so spoiled when it comes to the density of the central corridor. I wish everyone driving through the city could see how dense it really is. We need more pictures of our skyline from west of Clayton looking towards downtown to be presented by the media.
Eh, I don't think highway appeal is that valuable. Driving is no way to experience a city and I wish all for all the urban interstates to be torn down.
St. Louis central corridor is truly one of kind. Old world mixed with new. World class parks parks and an urban fabric that can compete with almost any city. But lets keep it in perspective. Minneapolis, for example, has a population density of almost 8,000 people per square mile with 10 neighborhoods ranging from 15k-20k per square mile. The CWE by comparison is 8.8k. The "skyline" might not stretch as long but the population density isn't even close.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Sep 10, 2022^The first time I really realized it was from the top of the arch when I was . . . twenty? I was looking out and realized that there were these significant skyline bumps at Midtown, CWE, and even then already Clayton. You can, of course, find cities that beat it to pieces, but really not so many. Chicago, sure. New York, of course. Philadelphia. Seattle is really beginning to these days. But even quite sizable cities like Denver and Minneapolis don't really give me that impression of length.
https://assets.nationbuilder.com/fairvo ... 1510956709
Minneapolis skyline. Doesn’t capture entire length but does a pretty good job.
Minneapolis skyline. Doesn’t capture entire length but does a pretty good job.
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Oh, I'm not arguing St. Louis is more dense. Just that there's a impressiveness to the chain of pearls effect of the progression. In fact, my very point is that some larger cities don't really have that, which is specifically why I chose Minneapolis and Denver. It's honestly quite hard to capture in a picture, though. It's subtle.STLAPTS wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2022St. Louis central corridor is truly one of kind. Old world mixed with new. World class parks parks and an urban fabric that can compete with almost any city. But lets keep it in perspective. Minneapolis, for example, has a population density of almost 8,000 people per square mile with 10 neighborhoods ranging from 15k-20k per square mile. The CWE by comparison is 8.8k. The "skyline" might not stretch as long but the population density isn't even close.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Sep 10, 2022^The first time I really realized it was from the top of the arch when I was . . . twenty? I was looking out and realized that there were these significant skyline bumps at Midtown, CWE, and even then already Clayton. You can, of course, find cities that beat it to pieces, but really not so many. Chicago, sure. New York, of course. Philadelphia. Seattle is really beginning to these days. But even quite sizable cities like Denver and Minneapolis don't really give me that impression of length.
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What is that brutalist mountain in the lower right side? It's a real "breauty"!STLAPTS wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2022https://assets.nationbuilder.com/fairvo ... 1510956709
Minneapolis skyline. Doesn’t capture entire length but does a pretty good job.
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This aerial from McKinley Bridge brings a pretty impressive view of the Central Corridor "Spine."
https://www.google.com/maps/place/McKin ... 1211?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/place/McKin ... 1211?hl=en
University of MinnesotaTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2022What is that brutalist mountain in the lower right side? It's a real "breauty"!STLAPTS wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2022https://assets.nationbuilder.com/fairvo ... 1510956709
Minneapolis skyline. Doesn’t capture entire length but does a pretty good job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_M ... nces_Tower