urbanSTL

After an ugly 4th of July weekend, things mellowed out rest of the month on the homicide front 
totals include "justifiable" homicides that ProPublica made a big stink about, 5 in 2022, 13 in 2021 and 10 in 2022 through July. 

https://www.kmov.com/2022/08/01/downtow ... t-weekend/

Glad to see the continued decline in homicides and have no doubt the media sensationalizes crime, "if it bleeds it leads" and all that, but its hard to take comfort in those facts when there are apparently armed gangs roaming the streets of downtown's densest residential  corridor and exchanging gunfire without consequence. Tell me KMOV is just sensationalizing this and its actually no big deal.

I don't think normal people move out of certain cities because of homicide numbers and the adjacent sensational news coverage.

People move and/or avoid because of auto related crimes (this gets expensive), property crimes and just a general feeling of lawlessness.

SB in BH wrote: ↑

Aug 01, 2022

https://www.kmov.com/2022/08/01/downtow ... t-weekend/

Glad to see the continued decline in homicides and have no doubt the media sensationalizes crime, "if it bleeds it leads" and all that, but its hard to take comfort in those facts when there are apparently armed gangs roaming the streets of downtown's densest residential  corridor and exchanging gunfire without consequence. Tell me KMOV is just sensationalizing this and its actually no big deal.

what KMOV should be asking is why people can walk down the sidewalk with guns in the open in Missouri and what can police do (answer is nothing, until they fire they gun) 

Man shot dead inside downtown St. Louis train station at 3:00 in the afternoon.  

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... anHqRvtPXs

Right wing dogma is that cities are *hole shooting galleries that should be avoided at all cost. Why would they ever do anything to fix these problems? Particularly when the prospect of a successful and growing STL and KC directly threatens their electoral stranglehold on the state.

SB in BH wrote: ↑

Aug 01, 2022

https://www.kmov.com/2022/08/01/downtow ... t-weekend/

Glad to see the continued decline in homicides and have no doubt the media sensationalizes crime, "if it bleeds it leads" and all that, but its hard to take comfort in those facts when there are apparently armed gangs roaming the streets of downtown's densest residential  corridor and exchanging gunfire without consequence. Tell me KMOV is just sensationalizing this and its actually no big deal.

Unbelievable. I'm amazed when I see clips like this on the news or on twitter etc on the weekends. How do the Cops not know this is going on and if they do, why are they not present? I lived downtown for almost a decade, and it was never like this. 

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Aug 02, 2022

Right wing dogma is that cities are *hole shooting galleries that should be avoided at all cost. Why would they ever do anything to fix these problems? Particularly when the prospect of a successful and growing STL and KC directly threatens their electoral stranglehold on the state.

Absolutely. The MO solution to this problem is literally for everyone to carry guns everywhere and for the good guys to shoot the bad guys. It really is as simple and stupid as that. This is a problem that cannot be fixed within the confines of state law, which means the state must be confronted (or ignored) and defeated. Maybe there's an electoral solution but its a long time coming. The state's switch from blue to red took decades of deliberate effort by the state and national Republican party; anyone think the Democrats at any level are capable of (or even interested in attempting) anything even remotely similar?!?

SB in BH wrote: ↑

Aug 02, 2022

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Aug 02, 2022

Right wing dogma is that cities are *hole shooting galleries that should be avoided at all cost. Why would they ever do anything to fix these problems? Particularly when the prospect of a successful and growing STL and KC directly threatens their electoral stranglehold on the state.

Absolutely. The MO solution to this problem is literally for everyone to carry guns everywhere and for the good guys to shoot the bad guys. It really is as simple and stupid as that. This is a problem that cannot be fixed within the confines of state law, which means the state must be confronted (or ignored) and defeated. Maybe there's an electoral solution but its a long time coming. The state's switch from blue to red took decades of deliberate effort by the state and national Republican party; anyone think the Democrats at any level are capable of (or even interested in attempting) anything even remotely similar?!?

Current Democrats would only be interested in retaking the state by adopting Republican positions, so it would hardly change anything.

^I think everyone is clear that there are no gun laws in MO until the gun is fired. And even then, the self-defense statutes are so wide open that its almost impossible to tell who are the "good guys," for police in the moment and for courts and juries in the aftermath, and which partially  explains why "justifiable" homicides are increasing year after year. 

In the article in question, its reported that at least some of the armed groups did exchange fire with one another breaking the law or at least permitting police to engage, and that nothing was done about it by police, whose HQ is only a handful of blocks away. It seems they're either unwilling or unable to bother, even when they're within the bounds of MO's batshit insane laws. Laws which won't be changing any time soon, if ever, absent a major political realignment.

leeharveyawesome wrote:I don't think normal people move out of certain cities because of homicide numbers and the adjacent sensational news coverage.

People move and/or avoid because of auto related crimes (this gets expensive), property crimes and just a general feeling of lawlessness.

Bingo

^Auto related crime would be much less common if we weren't so blasted auto reliant.

If only fewer people were coerced to leave a $10ks possession out and about. It's like endemic car dependency increases risks in many dimensions.

Considering all the amenities that are in those new structures It will be interesting to see how they prevent non residents taking advantage  of the goodies.  Once Airbnb's are in those buildings its a short slide to the problems/crime that has occurred on Washington

Is open carry not illegal in the city?

^But it's also stupid everywhere in Missouri when you're not out hunting.

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Aug 12, 2022

Is open carry not illegal in the city?

Missouri has no laws for guns until you fire one and 80% of those favor the person shooting 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Aug 12, 2022

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Aug 12, 2022

Is open carry not illegal in the city?

Missouri has no laws for guns until you fire one and 80% of those favor the person shooting 

Yes. If someone looks at you menacingly and makes you fear for life or (especially) property (the most important thing!), you are obliged to shoot that person. In self-defense, of course. If you do not have a gun or are reluctant to use it, you're likely a woke commie who deserve to die anyway. I believe that's in RsMO Chapter 316 but not an attorney so don't quote me.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Aug 12, 2022

^But it's also stupid everywhere in Missouri when you're not out hunting.

Oh, they are.

quincunx wrote:I thought Lux had cleaned up the neighborhood

KMOV - Man dead after shooting in DeBaliviere Place neighborhood

https://www.kmov.com/2022/08/03/man-dea ... ghborhood/

It was an interpersonal shooting. As someone who lived there for a while and hates Lux, the neighborhood is definitely much safer now because of the Lux projects.

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Does this not say that open carry is illegal in the City? If not, I stand corrected.  But I thought municipalities could enact their own open/concealed carry laws.

https://library.municode.com/mo/st._lou ... .040EXWHPA