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PostAug 17, 2022#8851

Just last week a very young individual (likely 13:15 y/o) parked a stolen Hyundai in our parking pads and hit our fence with the severely damaged vehicle. Interestingly, he stole it from just two blocks away and we were able to quickly reach the police who quickly reached the owners. Took a few days for it to be towed, though.

But, I think this small anecdote really demonstrates how it’s possible that even very unprofessional and young people are finding this out.

Also, we chose a good year to sell our Hyundai last year! We loved it as a car and it’s nice we avoided this fiasco while owning it.


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PostAug 18, 2022#8852

Thought this was interesting: apparently there is a STL gang subreddit that keeps track of a gang territory map
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewe ... 03227&z=15

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PostAug 18, 2022#8853

^This is an intriguing study, to be sure.  

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PostAug 18, 2022#8854

^^Saw that link on Reddit yesterday. Good stuff. Check out r/SaintLouisDrill if you haven't already. 

There and elsewhere, there's a whole lot of gang activity in STL posted online, including pictures with names to match. Honestly, their doing so just makes it a whole hell of a lot easier for them to be prosecuted by the Feds & Police, who I'm sure actively read their postings. You ever hear the argument that Facebook can be considered the most effective intelligence gathering information resource ever because people populate their own data fields? This is easily an order of magnitude greater than that. 

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PostAug 18, 2022#8855

kipfilet wrote:
Aug 18, 2022
Thought this was interesting: apparently there is a STL gang subreddit that keeps track of a gang territory map
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewe ... 03227&z=15
Some of these seem like they're just a few guys playing gangsta.

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PostAug 18, 2022#8856

“South Grand exec: Knife fights, speeding, aggressive panhandling must stop”

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... ispatchbiz

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PostAug 19, 2022#8857

mjbais1489 wrote:
Aug 17, 2022
MarkHaversham wrote:
Aug 17, 2022
downtown2007 wrote:
Aug 17, 2022
They aren’t hurting. They are prospering criminals. They know what they are doing is wrong. I have zero sympathy for them.
Genuinely thought for a second, "are you talking about the car thieves or the companies?" I guarantee that the Kia and Hyundai corporations have committed more harm themselves than the petty property damage perpetrated by these street criminals. Including their role in Global Capitalism that drives people to property crime, of course, but also the environmental damage, child labor, wage theft etc.
This is wrong.

Criminals are bad. The criminals in this case are the people stealing cars. They should be punished. 
Criminals are bad, but the biggest criminals are rewarded with stock options.

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PostAug 19, 2022#8858

^It's a good thing you didn't live back in the day of the robber barons. Those guys were a thousand times worse than today's corporate "criminals". 

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PostAug 20, 2022#8859


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PostAug 20, 2022#8860

^^Statistically I think the current crop is getting pretty close. The wealth gap is supposedly approaching French levels from right before the revolution and cries of a "New Gilded Age" are increasingly common.

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PostAug 20, 2022#8861

Here we go: https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 15010.html


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PostAug 22, 2022#8862

It seems the shortage is nationwide. What to do?

NPR - A rural Washington emergency dispatch center closes as 911 operator shortage persists


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PostAug 22, 2022#8863

Car thefts or theft from car in central patrol is about the only category up through July 2022 vs 2021


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PostAug 23, 2022#8864

“A spokesman for Jones declined an interview request for this story.”

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 32522.html


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PostAug 23, 2022#8865

….’member when the biggest issue around STL crime / murder rate on this site was "how it was reported…? 
 
I remember.

… ahh, the good ol’ days.

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PostAug 23, 2022#8866

^yeah, what's weird about that is they tried and continue to try to tie it to the current admin as some trick to make themselves look better when the biggest delta was in 2020 to the potential benefit of the previous admin.

What did the previous city administrations stop doing/change that lead to the quadrupling of the murder rate 2003-2020? 

Another thought experiment I've been considering is what changes to policy, practices, spending, staffing, etc a  place with a low murder rate, say Chesterfield, have to make to have the same murder rate as Stl City? That would be 32 homicides using STL's 2021 rate.

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PostAug 23, 2022#8867

quincunx wrote:
Aug 23, 2022
^yeah, what's weird about that is they tried and continue to try to tie it to the current admin as some trick to make themselves look better when the biggest delta was in 2020 to the potential benefit of the previous admin.

What did the previous city administrations stop doing/change that lead to the quadrupling of the murder rate 2003-2020? 

Another thought experiment I've been considering is what changes to policy, practices, spending, staffing, etc a  place with a low murder rate, say Chesterfield, have to make to have the same murder rate as Stl City? That would be 32 homicides using STL's 2021 rate.
On your first point, haters gonna hate. There is a faction of the StL elite/establishment/whatever you want to call it that does not like Jones and will seek to blame her for everything that goes wrong. Ditto for Kim Gardner, though I think the criticisms there are much more legit: She's clearly incompetent and the CAO has degraded as a result, putting more offenders back on the streets than might have been the case even with another reformer, e.g., Wesley Bell, in charge. This explain some fraction of the change from 2003--2020, but really only from 2017 onward.

On your second re City administration, not much, except for personnel changes. I'm not aware of any particular set of city policies or programs that have changed so drastically as to drive such an increase but maybe older heads on here will know otherwise. What has changed, however, are state gun laws in particular, as has been discussed ad nauseum here and elsewhere. Barring maybe Texas, there is no state more lax about guns than MO and its cities are prohibited from enacting their own restrictions. 

I would attribute the trend mainly to economic factors, in most cases driven by federal rather than state or local economic policy. I'll never get tired of posting this Rand Corp study showing that the top 10% (and really the top .01%) of income earners siphoned ~$47 TRILLION from the lower 90% between 1975 and 2018 (and undoubtedly beyond). That kind of mass wealth transfer will have negative knock on effects for generations, even if the meritocratic myth were true and that siphoning was entirely done through honest means.

Lastly, re Chesterfield, it depends on what you mean. The single best predictor of crime/violent crime is concentrated poverty, a factor not prevalent in Chesterfield. I suppose if they cut their police force significantly, reduced bail/bonding, and shrunk and neutered the prosecuting attorney's office then the metro area's criminals would start doing more crimes there. Even then I don't think you'd get to the same rate as the City. If you're asking what law/order factors would have to change to see Chesterfieldians start murdering each other at the same rate as City dwellers, the answer is probably that it doesn't matter, because the conditions that drive crime and criminality aren't present. At least as we're talking exclusively about street crime. The white collar variety might merit a different analysis.

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PostAug 23, 2022#8868

SB in BH wrote:
Aug 23, 2022
I would attribute the trend mainly to economic factors, in most cases driven by federal rather than state or local economic policy. I'll never get tired of posting this Rand Corp study showing that the top 10% (and really the top .01%) of income earners siphoned ~$47 TRILLION from the lower 90% between 1975 and 2018 (and undoubtedly beyond). That kind of mass wealth transfer will have negative knock on effects for generations, even if the meritocratic myth were true and that siphoning was entirely done through honest means.
I wonder what would happen to the car theft rate if we taxed that $47 trillion back and gave the poorest 50% of Americans a check for $250k (or say $2k/mo for 10-15 years). My intuition tells me it would be an improvement.

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PostAug 26, 2022#8869

My memory is fuzzy. Did the Prop P tax increase result in pay raises? What was the effect? Did we get more and better officers and policing? Or did the competition from the rest of the region just outpace the city?

2017 Stl Mag - St. Louis city voters pass Proposition P, approve raises for police officers
With the proposition passing with a 60 percent majority, officers will now receive an approximate $6,000 pay increase and additional benefits. Firefighters will also receive a wage increase.
https://www.stlmag.com/news/politics/prop-p-passes/

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PostSep 02, 2022#8870

This thread has been quiet lately….

Surge in St. Louis homicides threatens to reverse progress made last year

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... -top-story

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PostSep 02, 2022#8871

downtown2007 wrote:
Sep 02, 2022
This thread has been quiet lately….

Surge in St. Louis homicides threatens to reverse progress made last year

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... -top-story
^ maybe because the story was posted in the thread when it was written 12 days ago?

PostSep 02, 2022#8872

Through august 2022
133 + 7 justified = 140

2021
123 + 17 justified = 140

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PostSep 02, 2022#8873

^^ We get it; everything sucks, there's no hope, and it's a miracle we made it to our keyboards alive to post these messages.

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PostSep 14, 2022#8874

How about seven police districts?

BB 87 introduced by Ald Boyd
The proposed Bill directs the City of St. Louis Division of Police to establish seven Police Districts the boundaries of which shall be drawn in accordance with the map set forth in Exhibit A. that is attached to the bill. Currently there are six Police Districts. The Bill requires the Commissioner of the City of St. Louis Division of Police, to the extent that the Commissioner deems reasonable and appropriate in light of changing community and law enforcement needs, to apportion Division of Police resources equally amongst the seven Police Districts, and each Police District. The proposed Bill requires that each Police District have a primary office or headquarters. The proposed Bill also requires the redistricting to be implemented within one-hundred and eighty days following the effective date of the ordinance.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/c ... BBId=14107

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PostSep 15, 2022#8875

^That's an odd little bill. The summary is terrible. It's a lot bigger than just redrawing districts. It's a complete overhaul of the department. It calls for consolidating the Metro PD and Airport PD, which new consolidated department would report to the city. Would that make airport PD less responsive to the airport? I think it completely changes the rank and staffing structures. It sounds like it's going to limit promotions, particularly to the rank of Major, which it aims to eliminate. Not sure what effect that's likely to have, but it's interesting. Also sounds like it will require Captains, Lieutenants and Sergeants, beyond staffing requirements to actually go out on the beat. Is there trouble with cops getting promotions and then staying behind a desk? It seems like it's aimed at making sure certain minimum numbers of uniformed officers are out on the beat in each district, and to make sure that happens it prevents promotions or filling other positions. At the surface of it that sounds sensible. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable with combining the airport police and the Metro PD. The airport requirements are pretty specialized and I much suspect there are extra background checks required. (Since the airport PD get to go airside. And some of them probably even get the cards and codes to do so around TSA. Which is kind of important. That's not the sort of access you want to distribute widely. Do most cops need to pass a federal background check? I'm guessing probably not, but maybe I'm wrong.)

Maybe it's a good idea, but the summary doesn't even begin to describe what's being asked, and I'd really like to know more about how the thing works right now before suggesting this is a good idea. It's . . . interesting.

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