How feasible would it be to build a transfer station at the Jefferson viaduct where the blue/red lines and new N/S Metrolink line will intersect?
It wouldn't make any sense to build the N/S line without a transfer station at Jefferson...
The Jefferson bridge will have to be reconstructed to carry light rail anyway so its existing design is moot. Plus, there is seemingly more than enough room...it's further away from any freight lines than the Grand Station:
My worries about this are significantly smaller knowing that the viaduct will be replaced. Thanks for answering that.
I hope that St. Louis government and developers will treat that as a proper crossroads for people moving across our city and that we will see tons of development around those stations like we're seeing around the Grand viaduct right now.
^ I don't know that it will be completely reconstructed. It's relatively new (2008), it may just need a deck replacement. Others here would know better than I, but I find it extremely hard to believe they wouldn't have a transfer between the three lines.
I find it hard to believe that something like that could happen, too. It just makes too much sense for there to be a transfer station there. It seems logical.
I have a car, but I like riding Metrolink, too -- and so I have been more lately than ever. Getting t-boned six weeks ago helped that.
I've noticed that the system has some really strong stations but then also some that seem out of the way and neglected. Design isn't always the system's strong suit, so I kind of just want to know that there will be a transfer station before I assume there will be a transfer station.
If they build a transfer station here, the land along Scott Ave will need to be redeveloped into something higher use. Metro can move the train barn elsewhere, same with the UPS complex. It would only take 4-5 decent projects to turn this auto oriented island into a 15 minute neighborhood at the crossroads of our railed transit system,
I sure hope they work hard enough so that the design does not require passengers to cross the street in order to transfer, seeing as the plan for N-S Metrolink is for center-running trains. Not going to get my hopes up too high though.
I didn't realize that the new north-south Metrolink line would be center-running.
It may be a challenge for Metrolink to keep people from having to cross the street in order to transfer, but they may have to figure something out as this will be in the middle of the viaduct. There are no crosswalks there now.
I wonder if it would be feasible to have the tracks pull over to the side of the viaduct station as if it were a bus, but that plan doesn't take into consideration horrible drivers.
Well, I don't think that's 100% a fact at this point. Engineering still has to happen, so a lot of this discussion is based on assumptions. Maybe @dbInSouthCity knows more or can shed some light on what's set in stone vs. what's just brainstorming.
If they decide to do center-running trains, they'll still have to build two tracks in the middle of Jefferson, correct? One northbound and one southbound?
What would be the advantage to doing that over protected lanes along the side of the street?
As far as I know, almost all light rail systems in the US (Minneapolis, Portland, Phoenix, Cleveland, etc.) have predominantly center running trains. I think it's simpler and faster. If they were to be running on the side of the streets, the trains would need to contend with varying width of the street, relocated or eliminated street parking, driveways, etc. All the previous studies of North-South Metrolink assumed center-running trains on major streets like Jefferson. The previous Downtown alignment had some side running trains on 9th/10th.
Well, I don't think that's 100% a fact at this point. Engineering still has to happen, so a lot of this discussion is based on assumptions. Maybe @dbInSouthCity knows more or can shed some light on what's set in stone vs. what's just brainstorming.
Meeting with a Metro (Bi-State) Board member tomorrow morning for a general transit discussion, questions/suggestions welcome
I didn't realize that the new north-south Metrolink line would be center-running.
It may be a challenge for Metrolink to keep people from having to cross the street in order to transfer, but they may have to figure something out as this will be in the middle of the viaduct. There are no crosswalks there now.
I wonder if it would be feasible to have the tracks pull over to the side of the viaduct station as if it were a bus, but that plan doesn't take into consideration horrible drivers.
Wouldn't center running make a transfer without crossing anything easier? You' have to widen your footprint at the station anyway, so maybe you could have a center platform with tracks on either side, and easy access straight down to a center platform on the line below. Transfer to a bus would be an issue, since they're all set up for right side loading, but either you could move the bus transfer a station up or down the line or build a extra elevator and stair towers that connect to the lower level platform and outside platforms for the bus. It's probably best to have more than one elevator anyway, just for the redundancy. It's extra cost, but if they build it on the Jefferson alignment this would logically be the super-deluxe new station. Make sure there's plenty of ways to get from everywhere to everywhere else.
^Section A-A is roughly what I was envisioning for the Jefferson stations, save that as a transfer point on two levels it will require more specialized design. I'm hoping they might do something like the Grand station, but with the A-A section on the bridge above it feeding directly onto the platform for the lower level station. I'd anticipate at least three elevators and stair towers running down the centerline of the lower level station at E, C, and W feeding to the northbound bus platform, the yellow line platform, and the southbound bus platform respectively. And hopefully also having a well protected crosswalk feeding directly from the yellow line platforms to the bus platforms. The bus stops wouldn't be strictly required, as the line would doubtless replace the No. 4 and No. 11 routes, but it could still be a convenient transfer point, so it might be worth building them in and moving selected other routes through the station. Anyway, Jefferson should probably be something special, like Grand or Civic Center, and not something off-the-shelf.
I don't know if they could get rid of the #11 route entirely, as a good portion of its journey is along Chippewa on the way to the Shrewsbury / I-44 Transit Center. Even if they reconfigured it to not go down Jefferson, I would think it would be an important piece in getting people along that Chippewa corridor to that southern-most N-S Metrolink stop.
I still think it would be nice if it could find its way to the Civic Center.
The Civic Center has so many connections, not only with other bus lines, but Metrolink, Greyhound, etc.
Say you lived on the #11 route (like I do) and they change it so that the #11 only takes you to the Jefferson/Chippewa Metrolink station.
I suppose you could get off the bus to connect with the #10 (Gravois), maybe the #30 (Arsenal), to get to the Civic Center. Riding the #11 to the Jefferson/Chippewa station would be pointless because doing so adds a third stop to what was previously direct.
And that's without taking into account all the people that are taking the #11 from the Civic Center to the Shrewsbury / I-44 Transit Center for their other connections.
^Agreed. To the extant that it matters to a criminally unaccountable agency, I think a good reroute would be to send it down Broadway-->Wisconsin-->Cherokee-->Lemp-->Pestalozzi-->12th st-->Tucker-->Chouteau-->14th-->Civic Center to add a new route through Marine Villa/Benton Park. Especially with N-S Metrolink now being routed straight up Jefferson, I don't think they should cut how many buses are going Downtown.
Also, this conversation is making me remember how the #11 used to go all the way out to Meremac Community College until Metro split the route in the middle (of course with no rider or public input).
Would be a shame if 15 years later they didn't update the plans to include lanes for scooters, e-bikes, and other micro-mobility options. But I won't hold my breath.
^ Don’t forget that 20th between St. Louis Avenue and the new stadium (and then south in the old interchange ROW to Chouteau via Scott Ave) will have a protected multi-use path.
It’s called Project Connect, it’s been funded and should start work as primary construction on the NGA begins to wrap up later this year and into next.
A lot of the streetscape along Jefferson in South City is residential.
Do you guys think that some of those homes could be on life alert if North-South Metrolink comes to fruition?
I think there are some clear development opportunities in South City along the proposed line, perhaps none better than the Gravois/Jefferson intersection. I just wonder if that South City corridor, which is already reasonably dense, will see some victims to the wrecking ball for new projects.
Depends on the condition the homes are in. Might also depend on if they fall within historic districts or not. Personally, I think having a lightrail train running past houses would be unique.
I tend to think the impact of North-South Metrolink on the houses facing Jefferson will be relatively limited, other than their property value going up. I also would say that there's not a huge number of them, and on almost every block of South Jefferson there's either a commercial building, auto oriented use like a gas station/parking lot or a vacant lot. With the right planning (a big assumption, I know) S Jefferson could get a bunch of new dense development while preserving the historic homes.
