Delmar Loop Trolley

SeattleNative · PostJan 26, 2022#21512022-01-26T14:16+00:00

Some ideas that were brought up in the brief meeting:

-fare free
-coordination with Forest Park Explorer

-Joe Edwards also brought up that the taxing district is nearly fully funding this and will only improve that with the new developments along the line.

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dredger · PostJan 26, 2022#21522022-01-26T21:03+00:00

^ thanks

My two cents is that hopefully the month extension gives Mayor Jones the time to get support to use some of Re-store funding to carry Loop Trolley ops for a couple of years. At a minimum it would kill the Feds attempt to clawback the grant. More importantly, in my mind it would buy time to do what I think is best outcome for Trolley. A fare free tourist line focusing on the following agenda. Decent weekend hours, extended hours, for the Loop Entertainment District businesses and a plan to extend within Forest Park itself. Coordination with Forest Park Explorer nice but see some upside on weekend ridership if they could the Trolley an extra mile to mile & half into the Park/to the zoo itself

RockChalkSTL · PostJan 26, 2022#21532022-01-26T22:15+00:00

I'd like to see an extension that goes to the tennis center, Grand Basin, Art Museum, Zoo, World's Fair Pavilion/Boathouse, and the Muny.

Then build a giant rec center with state-of- the-art aquatic center on one of the Muny lots.

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quincunx · PostJan 28, 2022#21542022-01-28T13:06+00:00

Could it make it up Art Hill?

SeattleNative · PostJan 28, 2022#21552022-01-28T13:38+00:00

quincunx wrote:Could it make it up Art Hill?

A quick google search and Someone’s Strava data tells me that Art Hill’s grade is right at the maximum level of what a trolley could handle (6%). However, just running a one way loop clockwise as opposed to counterclockwise where the grade is more gradual could solve that issue, I think.

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symphonicpoet · PostJan 28, 2022#21562022-01-28T22:15+00:00

SeattleNative wrote: ↑
Jan 28, 2022
quincunx wrote:Could it make it up Art Hill?
A quick google search and Someone’s Strava data tells me that Art Hill’s grade is right at the maximum level of what a trolley could handle (6%). However, just running a one way loop clockwise as opposed to counterclockwise where the grade is more gradual could solve that issue, I think.

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I honestly figure it would be better to up the steeper grade than down. Runaways are a really bad deal.

RuskiSTL · PostFeb 09, 2022#21572022-02-09T09:13+00:00

I know an extended Trolley into the park is a sexy project. But honestly, this electronic alternative being rolled out at Yellowstone would be so much better if we're talking about replacing the MetroBus Explorer. The vision for Forest Park from the beginning was to build a natural oasis as a relief for the surrounding urban jungle.... a clanging trolley full of overhead wires and disruptive rails does the opposite of that....

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel ... ctric-cars

symphonicpoet · PostFeb 09, 2022#21582022-02-09T23:07+00:00

^Trolleys are remarkably quiet when not sounding a warning device to alert someone to their presence. And the warning devices are remarkably organic and pleasant sounding next to everything electronic these days. Trolleys would be quieter and less disruptive than more or less anything they would replace. And I'm so tired of the complaints about the tracks. Everywhere in Europe people manage to use bikes in places with trolleys just fine. It's only in the US that we're filled with people who can't figure it out. If we build streetcar infrastructure out everywhere a generation from now people won't even remember the problem. (Save for a few old farts who will laugh about how silly we were "back in the day.")

sc4mayor · PostFeb 15, 2022#21592022-02-15T03:13+00:00

New effort underway to get Bi-State to run a revived Loop Trolley
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... -top-story

The trolley district also is asking the East-West Gateway Council of Governments’ board to reconsider its rejection in October of the district’s request for a $1.26 million federal grant to help restart the trolley. The district last week submitted a new request for the money.

St. Clair County Board Chairman Mark Kern, who previously had opposed both ideas, said Monday he now supports Bi-State operating the trolley and “would be OK” with the grant.

What’s changed, he said, was a regional Federal Transit Administration official’s warning in late December that local leaders must submit a plan to restart service in June or face the prospect of repaying tens of millions of dollars in federal grants used to build the line.

Kern also worries that failing to get the trolley running again could jeopardize future funding for other projects such as the proposed north-south extension of MetroLink.

SeattleNative · PostFeb 15, 2022#21602022-02-15T13:22+00:00

Bi State as operator is a good step. They really do need that grant to run fare free, so hopefully they get EW Gateway on board. But the hours still suck. Even if these are running with 10-15 minute headways. If I take the trolley to the Loop for dinner, it won’t be there to take me back home.

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RockChalkSTL · PostFeb 15, 2022#21612022-02-15T14:26+00:00

Is there any way we could make the entire Metrolink system free?

How much would it cost to make something like that happen?

addxb2 · PostFeb 15, 2022#21622022-02-15T15:27+00:00

KansasCitian wrote:Is there any way we could make the entire Metrolink system free?

How much would it cost to make something like that happen?

Is it possible? Sure.
But is it possible? No.

- Bi-State is under pressure to deliver a crime free system (also not possible). They see fare enforcement as their best tool to do so.
- MetroLink is reliant on bus riders. A free MetroLink without an entirely free bus system wouldn’t yield much savings and motivated riders.
- It would cost $35-50m annually to make the entire system free. While most of us here would rationalize that cost as environmentally, equitably, economically justified… you’re not going to convince leadership that $350m-500m over 10 years is reasonable.
- Which leads me to my last point. You have to have a forever solution, not just 5 or 10 years. Once it’s free it politically would have to stay free.

RockChalkSTL · PostFeb 15, 2022#21632022-02-15T15:30+00:00

Good points.

If the system can't be free, then so be it. But I would hope that the Trolley can still be free, or, at the very least, attached to the rest of the Metrolink fare system.

sc4mayor · PostFeb 18, 2022#21642022-02-18T16:19+00:00

Bi-State board agrees to run Loop Trolley
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 252520News

SeattleNative · PostFeb 18, 2022#21652022-02-18T16:53+00:00

sc4mayor wrote:Bi-State board agrees to run Loop Trolley
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 252520News

This is how it should have been from the beginning

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RockChalkSTL · PostFeb 18, 2022#21662022-02-18T17:16+00:00

I think this is fantastic news.

Would love to see even more apartments and businesses put on the Delmar/DB corridor now.

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TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostFeb 18, 2022#21672022-02-18T18:33+00:00

Good news, but again concerned by the limited schedule.

PeterXCV · PostFeb 18, 2022#21682022-02-18T19:30+00:00

^Same here. And the bus operator shortage doesn't bode well for them finding people willing to drive the Trolleys on a limited schedule.

What were their hours before, 12-6 Thursday through Sunday? Which, running a service in the late afternoon but closing before most people start having dinner in an entertainment district, just makes no sense.

matguy70 · PostFeb 18, 2022#21692022-02-18T19:54+00:00

I hope that METRO (bi-state) will integrate the Loop Trolley into their maps and Forest Park/ Delmar Loop Stations Connection. This will be a nice little (green)?) line from Delmar Loop Station to Forest Park Station and points between.

Advertising on the Metro trains as well.

Maybe the image of the trolley be changed to "Loop STREETCAR" ???

ldai_phs · PostFeb 19, 2022#21702022-02-19T17:31+00:00

matguy70 wrote:I hope that METRO (bi-state) will integrate the Loop Trolley into their maps and Forest Park/ Delmar Loop Stations Connection. This will be a nice little (green)?) line from Delmar Loop Station to Forest Park Station and points between.

Advertising on the Metro trains as well.

Maybe the image of the trolley be changed to "Loop STREETCAR" ???

Metro-bus
Metro-link

Metro-car
Or
Metro-Streetcar

rbeedee · PostFeb 19, 2022#21712022-02-19T17:54+00:00

Metrolley

Edit: I'll take it a step further and give it an owl mascot named Ollie. Put a cute fake owl on the front. Take it to see the famous Forest Park Owls. Run late night service on the Loop called the Nite Owl. Rent it out for parties called Hootenannys. Endless pun opportunities.

BiState, DM me and I'll let you know where to send my consulting check.

PeterXCV · PostFeb 19, 2022#21722022-02-19T20:29+00:00

Blog post from CMT says Trolley will operate 32 hours a week Thursday-Sunday: https://cmt-stl.org/bi-state-board-appr ... p-trolley/

12-8 4 days a week sounds pretty useless to me.

SeattleNative · PostFeb 19, 2022#21732022-02-19T20:38+00:00

PeterXCV wrote:Blog post from CMT says Trolley will operate 32 hours a week Thursday-Sunday: https://cmt-stl.org/bi-state-board-appr ... p-trolley/

12-8 4 days a week sounds pretty useless to me.

Agreed. You’re stranding the dinner crowd

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LArchitecture · PostFeb 19, 2022#21742022-02-19T21:03+00:00

SeattleNative wrote:
PeterXCV wrote:Blog post from CMT says Trolley will operate 32 hours a week Thursday-Sunday: https://cmt-stl.org/bi-state-board-appr ... p-trolley/

12-8 4 days a week sounds pretty useless to me.
Agreed. You’re stranding the dinner crowd

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Stranding the dinner crowd and not appropriate time to use for lunch either. What are these hours even accomplishing? Either expand by 1 preferably 2 hours in the beginning and end of that time frame or choose to cater to lunch or dinner crowd.

As is this proposal will also fail and be underutilized.

chris fuller · PostFeb 19, 2022#21752022-02-19T21:14+00:00

Is the objective here to re-start the project to meet the feds requirements (to avoid a total payback of the monies) and once that is done let the trolley die?

Delmar Loop Trolley

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