urbanSTL

I would absolutely ride the Loop Trolley if it were attached the Metrolink fare system, and I think other people would as well. Likewise, I really have no intention of paying for separate Loop Trolley tickets that are inconvenient and in no way attached to the Transit app. 

This could have been an incredible neighborhood asset if the powers that be had decided to take it seriously. 

Instead, this situation has devolved to a point where detractors like to idiotically laugh and say the thing hits cars, blaming the trolley and not the one car in a row of thirty-five that was side-swiped by a trolley on rails. 

StlToday - Loop Trolley set to resume service Thursday morning after years shut down

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ddc01.html

I know I'm in the minority, but I hope it somehow works out and continues to run for a long time even if it isn't perfect and it hits extremely poorly parked cars.

I see that it's free now. That should help!

It had been frustrating thinking that Bi-State would run this again separate of the Metrolink system, with its own fare.

Now that I know this will be free, my complaint is loosened a bit and I'll actually plan to ride it occasionally. Alas, I'm not usually in that part of town.

If the trolley sticks at all this time around and it isn't pathetically shut down a year or two from now, I hope Metrolink cars -- if compatible with the tracks -- will replace the old heritage cars.

Remove everything 'Loop Trolley' from the name and imagery. Start calling it Metrolink and give the line a new name. Maybe a color.

... It's the ... yellow line!

The yellow line can be useful with the tracks it has. It connects with the red line at two stops and the blue line at one. And it's on a corridor that is on a good trajectory.

MetroBus should have a 'Forest Park Attractions' route that takes off from the Missouri History Museum and meanders around the park, taking riders to all of the most important attractions. Make this free too and I think you'd have tons of tourists on it. Possibly Muny-goers, too.

Oh, I know it's not going to work. I know I'm in the minority in wanting to see it succeed despite all its shortcomings and detractors. I've said numerous times that this thing is going to fail the moment it can. It'd already be over and done with if not for a threat from the feds. 

The Loop Trolley is honestly a fiery indictment against St. Louis' regional dysfunction. Perhaps that's why I'm subconsciously rooting so hard for it -- it's the perfect symbol for this region. Better than the Arch, even.

Yeah, it is pretty obvious that Metrolink cars can't ride on the street. What I meant to convey is that it would be nice if we had modern Metrolink-branded streetcars with air-conditioning. Going with the heritage trolleys was one of many, many mistakes. 

It should have never been built. But it was. And I think it's one bad look for St. Louis if we allow it to fail after taking money from the feds -- the same feds we will have to ask when/if we ever get around to building the north-south Metrolink line. Maybe working in the financial industry makes me think a little too much about credit worthiness and what institutions do when they watch you frolick around with their money. 

If I still lived in DeBaliviere Place I would totally be a frequent rider now that it's free. Not for commuting of course but it sure would be a fun way to get to dinner in the Loop.

If the sales tax base can support this level of free service I think the Loop Trolley will be fulfilling its potential: A fun way to get around for tourists and the people who live on the line. 

Not going to lie, I still think it should be taken over by FPF and run through some of the Forest Park attractions. That would actually make the trolley a real attraction and further funnel tourists to businesses on the Loop. Should we use federal funds to build it in priority over actual transit? HELL NO. Should FPF look at trolley expansion and operation as a way to make Forest Park even more culturally vibrant and accessible? Potentially.

With it being free, I'll find some time to ride it. 

I enjoy riding Metrolink around town when I can, so I'll make a point to ride out to the Forest Park-DeBaliviere station and catch the trolley from there for lunch or dinner sometime. 

If they're going to keep this thing free, I wouldn't be shocked if we start seeing a lot more Wash U students on it. Delmar Divine, just east of DeBaliviere, might also spur some ridership. 

I probably need to keep my dreams in check for the sake of other posters that just can't handle it, but it would obviously be pretty fantastic if this thing could run through Forest Park, hitting each of the biggest attractions and hopefully creating a scenic, serene experience for riders. That said, I think they should just focus on what they've already got built before expanding.

Figure out how to make this work, then expand the service hours and go from there. Avoid shutting this thing down and jeopardizing public transit in St. Louis for years to come. 

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Aug 04, 2022

If I still lived in DeBaliviere Place I would totally be a frequent rider now that it's free. Not for commuting of course but it sure would be a fun way to get to dinner in the Loop.

If the sales tax base can support this level of free service I think the Loop Trolley will be fulfilling its potential: A fun way to get around for tourists and the people who live on the line. 

Not going to lie, I still think it should be taken over by FPF and run through some of the Forest Park attractions. That would actually make the trolley a real attraction and further funnel tourists to businesses on the Loop. Should we use federal funds to build it in priority over actual transit? HELL NO. Should FPF look at trolley expansion and operation as a way to make Forest Park even more culturally vibrant and accessible? Potentially.

Couldn't agree more.   The sooner the  City, UCity and Forest Park Forever embrace the idea of some expansion inside Forest Park, expand hours first to at least cover time for late dinner crowd & that the Loop Trolley is more of tourist line then a transit service for the foreseeable future the better off it will be.    Not sure if Forest Park Forever would be best entity to run it IMO.  However, I do think they are the right group to lead a fund raising effort to extend tracks & wires into Forest Park the mile or so needed to at least get to zoo as well as say a five year commitment on the gap between cost & sales tax in operating funds for 4 day a week op with no fares (free rides, Thurs to Saturday).

Future transit desires might be better suited for low floor free streetcar but on north south corridors.  Howver, I think a north south axis on either Skinker Ave maybe tying Dogtown/Forest Park Community with Danforth campus with Delmber/North Campus/north U City and or a Euclid Ave axis tying in N Delmar with CWE/Barnes Jewish/Wash U medical with Forest Park Southeast as better options IMO that would be much more favorable to transit users in long run.   Both would still connect with spine line on existing metrolink stops  but also run next to or through major institution/employment centers that tie in north and south neighborhoods.   Discussion for another day and thread.   

It's pretty clear that it will never be expanded. There isn't any political will, community will, or investor will.

It is what it is. It should have never been built, considering DeBaliviere and Delmar already have Metrolink stations and people can't park for sh*t. Still, I hope it lives on for a while. 

But, LOL, they clearly don't care. They're shutting it back down in October until Spring 2023. The kiss of death is all over this thing. 

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Aug 05, 2022

It's pretty clear that it will never be expanded. There isn't any political will, community will, or investor will.

It is what it is. It should have never been built, considering DeBaliviere and Delmar already have Metrolink stations and people can't park for sh*t. Still, I hope it lives on for a while. 

But, LOL, they clearly don't care. They're shutting it back down in October until Spring 2023. The kiss of death is all over this thing. 

I would disagree but with my qualifier.   The only possible expansion possible in my mind is within Forest Park itself and would be something that Forest Park Forever would want to take on  

dredger wrote:

RockChalkSTL wrote:It's pretty clear that it will never be expanded. There isn't any political will, community will, or investor will.

It is what it is. It should have never been built, considering DeBaliviere and Delmar already have Metrolink stations and people can't park for sh*t. Still, I hope it lives on for a while. 

But, LOL, they clearly don't care. They're shutting it back down in October until Spring 2023. The kiss of death is all over this thing. 

I would disagree but with my qualifier.   The only possible expansion possible in my mind is within Forest Park itself and would be something that Forest Park Forever would want to take on 

If the Delmar Trolley could garner some love through the virtue of being free (maybe), AND if someone could come up with the money (highly unlikely), I think something like this would be pretty much the only way they could go. I've shared a similar map before, but I truly believe this is closer to what they should have done from the beginning. How could someone have dreamt up a trolley that goes to Forest Park and only goes to the Missouri History Museum, at best the park's fifth-most popular attraction? The Loop Trolley literally looks like a project that never got around to Phase II. 

Anyway, I've got five stations for the extension -- Grand Basin, Art Museum, Zoo, World's Fair Pavilion, Muny

Suddenly, Loop Trolley could claim access to those major attractions, but also the Nature Playscape, Boathouse, and Forest Park waterways. 

The extension misses some notable Forest Park attractions such as the Science Center and Jewel Box, but there's just no amount of imagination that could make that work. 

^If you can get then thing up Art Hill I don't see any reason you couldn't take Washington, Wells, Clayton, and Faulkner past the Jewell Box, the Planetarium, and Steinberg. It's all a fantasy, mind. But I don't think there's any physical reason those would be harder than the grade up (and more importantly down) the hill.

I don't mean that you couldn't imagine a route that could go to the science center; what I meant is, I can't even begin to imagine a five- or six-mile extension of the trolley. I think what I have here is around two miles. 

The hill would perhaps be a challenge, but they use streetcars in hilly San Fran so I'm hoping it wouldn't be a huge issue.

I'd be totally fine with Forest Park running buses instead of the trolley. It'd be cheaper and just as effective.

As sc4mayor pointed out, there is a Forest Park Explorer bus that Metro runs -- but, according to the website, the Forest Park Explorer is down for the season. That seems pretty pathetic. It's also super disappointing to see that the Explorer is more than normal bus fare -- $2 for a one-way trip for adults.

The Forest Park Explorer should be free or $1 and connected to the Metro system, signage and visibility should be increased throughout the park and system, and service should be expanded. Visitors to St. Louis that spend $5 on an all-day pass to ride Metrolink from Downtown to the Forest Park-DeBaliviere station should not have to fork out another $2 for a one-way ride.

Side note: The Forest Park Explorer's route is actually very close to the one that I created.

^If we're talking dreams, mine would be banning cars in most of Forest Park with frequent free shuttle service instead. 

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Aug 05, 2022

As sc4mayor pointed out, there is a Forest Park Explorer bus that Metro runs -- but, according to the website, the Forest Park Explorer is down for the season. That seems pretty pathetic. 

Have you heard of the bus driver shortage?

IMHO trolleys fixed to steel tracks are yesteryear technology with a lot of downsides and not enough upside to offset it.  The argument that fixed track denotes permanence and thus spurs investment is a fallacy as evidenced by this boondoggle.

For anything other than tourist transit I would agree with you. The Heritage Trolley is trash compared to more modern options, particularly when it comes to loading and unloading/accessibility. I can see it working in the specific case of Forest Park (only if free) because it becomes an attraction in and of itself. It matches the World's Fair vibe perfectly and doesn't even have to run on the streets with traffic as there are very few buildings within the park itself. Just run it next to the roads through the grass. Would making the bus free be more effective? Yes, and it should be done regardless of my pipe dreams. Would I also love to see vintage trolleys rolling through Forest Park? HELL YES

^^Yes.

I understand this is probably one of the first lines they would cut, as it's a touristy line that I'd bet few locals ever ride, but still, it's kind of funny how car-reliant even our city's biggest green space is. 

In-street trolleys don't obstruct traffic any more than in-street buses do.

^Sure. Traffic obstructs in street trolleys and busses, but it doesn't obstruct lines in the grass.

All of this is a dream. But I'm glad to hear today was a success.