The County's share of the sample is roughly the same as the county's share of the population surveyed. Not sure what the issue is.
*St Louis County (not North City) accounts for 78% of the respondents. Sorry for the typo. Regardless, the respondent dispersion seems fair. From what I can see, I don’t believe North City was underrepresented in this survey. Sorry for the awkward wording.urban_dilettante wrote:"Regardless, 700 total people were poled out of the combined city/county population of “roughly” 1.3 million. 8% of the respondents were from North City. That would be 56 respondents."
okay, that makes sense. previously you said: "I’m not sure what the North City population is but 8% would account for around 104,000 residents," which has a very different meaning.
Now what does this mean?
"Considering North City makes up 78% of the respondents were from the county (546 respondents)."
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You know, honestly for most folks I think it's just surface reasoning: 'I like football. I was mad when they took away football and I miss it. If they give me football back I will be happy.' And that's about as deep as it gets. And you know, I get that. I really enjoyed NFL football when the Rams were here - even bad football was great entertainment, honestly. If there were no other concerns or larger issue at play I'd love to have a team to root for again.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2021^^ just saying that at first social media/media was all "f*ck the NFL! no mercy!" and now 1/2+ of the coverage is "STL can get an expansion team! hooray!" or that's how it appears to me. i may be biased.
However very few people stop to think about how that would actually work: how long it would take, whether it would be a similar financial benefit to the region (and not just whichever billionaire owner is selected by the same guys who bent their own rules to embrace Stan Kroenke) as a settlement, or why we should trust the guys we're currently suing to do it right this time.
For me, I'm putting aside my personal fandom of NFL football to look at the broader picture. I don't think most folk, if asked unprompted, would stop and think deeply about it.
I am surprised that folks like Daniel Wallach (the Sports Lawyer on twitter who's been deep-diving into the lawsuit) thinks so favorably of an expansion team as a settlement option. Certainly that could be coloring folks' opinions too. He is smarter than me, so maybe there's something to it. But I see that as #1: less painful to the league than a potentially $1B+ judgement/settlement (let's punish them by giving them an additional revenue source!) and #2: a path fraught with loophole landmines that could end up costing the region money in the long run.
-RBB
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Get the expansion team, couple billion, and a 50-100 year guarantee of no relocation. Then purposely tank the team and get little to no local support. Constantly have empty seats and terrible teams with no recourse for the NFL. Would be a black mark on the NFL.
I'm starting to believe the NFL is seriously considering STL for expansion:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... it-sounds/
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... it-sounds/
^ Mike Florio is just a league mouthpiece. Like U_D said earlier…a distraction.
Also, two teams in London? LOL
Also, two teams in London? LOL
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League mouthpiece? Have you seen some of his writing.
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If the league get throttled in court, I wouldn't be shocked at all if the league expanded to a much larger number of teams to wash away any financial concerns (and then some).
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Seems relevant that the most popular outcomes are $1bil settlement and Jury Trial, combined 47%, while expansion and relocation are a combined 32% of preferences. Supporting expansion is only positive when considered in isolation. That is to say, give us $1bil plus a team.OnTheEdge wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2021LOLClose to one-half of voters support an expansion team locating to St. Louis.
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They really like their American Football over there. I was . . . shocked. But they do. I had an interesting conversation with an employee at an ASDA. He was one of the few younger folks I met who was actually aware of St. Louis . . . because he likes the Rams. (Apparently they've played a larger than average number of demo games in London.) . . . (He also quite understood why I was a bit sour on them, so he'd kept up with the news. And maybe he also likes Arsenal. Didn't ask, but I hadn't made that particular connection yet.) Anyway, I could very much see where it would be better for the NFL to have two teams in the UK than just one. Honestly, five might be better, since then they could have a real division over there and that would significantly cut down on travel making the whole thing easier. Two in London, one in Manchester, one in Liverpool, and maybe one in Glasgow say? Or maybe move one of the London teams to Belfast to get better geographic coverage. Just spitballing with their forty teams, eight divisions idea. One eighth isn't unreasonable, seeing as they're about one fifth the population of the US. Football won't instantly be as popular there as here, but they honestly do seem to like it. And five teams solves the travel problem more or less entirely.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Nov 16, 2021^ Mike Florio is just a league mouthpiece. Like U_D said earlier…a distraction.
Also, two teams in London? LOL
Edit: I would like to make it clear that I am not in favor of settling. I just think if the NFL is going to expand to the UK (and they probably should) they should just go all in.
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I wonder how having teams in England would impact the NFL's anti-trust and general anti-municipality fudgery. Like, is the NFL gonna call the mayor of Manchester in 30 years and demand $4bil for a new stadium lest they move to Bristol, or will those tactics be reserved for state-side teams? Is Rodger Goodell going to have to marry a daughter off to Prince George of Cambridge to stave off regulatory disputes?
The NFL backed this guy, now they probably pay big time.....
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... /Rams.aspx
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... /Rams.aspx
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If the league owners continue to squabble about this, I do think St. Louis' chances for a massive payday, perhaps including an expansion franchise, grow.
Personally, I still don't want to see any settlement. I want to see this play out in court. The NFL is in the wrong and they've got blood on their hands.
BUT I will accept a settlement if it will serve as another dramatic hit for NFL ownership.
Personally, I still don't want to see any settlement. I want to see this play out in court. The NFL is in the wrong and they've got blood on their hands.
BUT I will accept a settlement if it will serve as another dramatic hit for NFL ownership.
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I'm getting to a point of disbelief over how much the League has screwed up and put themselves in the line of fire. StanK is absolutely the least ethical professional sports owner that has ever sat in a League owner's box. And there's no way on this side of Jerusalem where I'd see the Plaintiffs settling with StanK for $500-750MM, with the exception that they'd get at least that amount from every team owner as well.courtland wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021The NFL backed this guy, now they probably pay big time.....
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/D ... /Rams.aspx
You ever see the movie Mississippi Burning? Because I'd say the rattlesnakes are starting to commit suicide.
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Every time the NFL owners realize how awful Kroenke is, I can’t help but think…
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It's pretty revealing how much the number from Kroenke's side has already gone up. Last week it was 100m, now he is saying he can separately settle for 500-750m. I doubt the STL side would give you those same numbers. Kroenke is STL's undesirable number one, him getting off the hook for less than a billion seems unlikely.
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Tomorrow, there's to be a meeting between Team StanK and the Plaintiffs where StanK'll offer that $500-750MM settlement @courtland mentioned above. It could be quite consequential...
CBS Sports: Rams owner threatens NFL over St. Louis lawsuit and the league could be out billions if he follows through
If StanK settles for $500MM, then the League would be due to pay out $15.5BB.
If StanK settles for $750MM, then the League would be due to pay out $23.25BB.
Big numbers. No wonder CBS Sports lowered their math to $200MM, because those other numbers are just huge.
Same time, the overwhelming desire of STL is for a jury trial. After all, this is for a lot more than just an NFL franchise, but our City's reputation.
STL Post-Dispatch: McClellan: When it comes to the Rams lawsuit, can you put a price on dignity?
Side note: I normally can't stand Bill McClellan, and even this article isn't my thing. Same time, he's on board with looking forward to the trial.
I want trial by jury and the Inglewood Super Bowl to have the lawsuit's shadow over every down.
CBS Sports: Rams owner threatens NFL over St. Louis lawsuit and the league could be out billions if he follows through
By this math, a $200MM StanK settlement would mean $6.2BB for the Plaintiffs. (200MM x 31 other franchises)Rams owner Stan Kroenke probably isn't going to be a very popular person at the next NFL owners meeting and that's because he's basically issued a threat that could end up costing the other 31 owners billions of dollars if he follows through with it...
... Some owners are fearing that the judgement against them might end up being into the billions of dollars if the NFL loses the case. If the NFL doesn't agree to split the settlement with Kroenke, it's easy to see a situation where the Rams owner walks into the mediation room and offers a number under $500 million to settle the case while also telling the plaintiffs that they could get billions more when the lawsuit proceeds against the rest of the NFL. For instance, if Kroenke settles for $200 million, the plaintiffs could use that as a jumping off point for potential damages from each team at trial (If all 32 teams had to pay $200 million, that would be $6.2 billion for the plaintiffs).
If StanK settles for $500MM, then the League would be due to pay out $15.5BB.
If StanK settles for $750MM, then the League would be due to pay out $23.25BB.
Big numbers. No wonder CBS Sports lowered their math to $200MM, because those other numbers are just huge.
Same time, the overwhelming desire of STL is for a jury trial. After all, this is for a lot more than just an NFL franchise, but our City's reputation.
STL Post-Dispatch: McClellan: When it comes to the Rams lawsuit, can you put a price on dignity?
Side note: I normally can't stand Bill McClellan, and even this article isn't my thing. Same time, he's on board with looking forward to the trial.
I want trial by jury and the Inglewood Super Bowl to have the lawsuit's shadow over every down.
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I say bring on the trial.
I'm cynical enough to realize that "leaks" from the NFL owners are used to feel out settlement numbers and/or leverage in the lawsuit.
I'm also cynical enough to not trust a word from Kroenke about settling with just him at a lower number because there's more money on the horizon from the NFL settlement.
If the STL team truly has the leverage that is being reported, then I hope they tell Kroenke to pound sand.
I'm cynical enough to realize that "leaks" from the NFL owners are used to feel out settlement numbers and/or leverage in the lawsuit.
I'm also cynical enough to not trust a word from Kroenke about settling with just him at a lower number because there's more money on the horizon from the NFL settlement.
If the STL team truly has the leverage that is being reported, then I hope they tell Kroenke to pound sand.
Wow. Monumental settlement payouts could be possible.gone corporate wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2021Tomorrow, there's to be a meeting between Team StanK and the Plaintiffs where StanK'll offer that $500-750MM settlement @courtland mentioned above. It could be quite consequential...
CBS Sports: Rams owner threatens NFL over St. Louis lawsuit and the league could be out billions if he follows through
By this math, a $200MM StanK settlement would mean $6.2BB for the Plaintiffs. (200MM x 31 other franchises)Rams owner Stan Kroenke probably isn't going to be a very popular person at the next NFL owners meeting and that's because he's basically issued a threat that could end up costing the other 31 owners billions of dollars if he follows through with it...
... Some owners are fearing that the judgement against them might end up being into the billions of dollars if the NFL loses the case. If the NFL doesn't agree to split the settlement with Kroenke, it's easy to see a situation where the Rams owner walks into the mediation room and offers a number under $500 million to settle the case while also telling the plaintiffs that they could get billions more when the lawsuit proceeds against the rest of the NFL. For instance, if Kroenke settles for $200 million, the plaintiffs could use that as a jumping off point for potential damages from each team at trial (If all 32 teams had to pay $200 million, that would be $6.2 billion for the plaintiffs).
If StanK settles for $500MM, then the League would be due to pay out $15.5BB.
If StanK settles for $750MM, then the League would be due to pay out $23.25BB.
Big numbers. No wonder CBS Sports lowered their math to $200MM, because those other numbers are just huge.
Same time, the overwhelming desire of STL is for a jury trial. After all, this is for a lot more than just an NFL franchise, but our City's reputation.
STL Post-Dispatch: McClellan: When it comes to the Rams lawsuit, can you put a price on dignity?
Side note: I normally can't stand Bill McClellan, and even this article isn't my thing. Same time, he's on board with looking forward to the trial.
I want trial by jury and the Inglewood Super Bowl to have the lawsuit's shadow over every down.
I'm betting the carrot the NFL will dangle is to offer the expansion franchise in return for lower/no payments per Owner if Stan settles and leaves them to deal with STL alone.
I'm trying to process just what that sum of money could accomplish...
Say StanK settles for $500MM, other 31 NFL Owners settle for $200MM each, and NFL kicks an expansion franchise + Riverfront Stadium STL originally proposed.
Or if STL goes for all the cash possible, let's say the $500MM option is taken. What would STL realistically do with $23.25BB? Build the N/S MetroLink and then-some?
Per this STLToday article the N/S line AECOM in 2018 estimated at $667 million. Let's round that up to $1 Billion just to cover N/S. That's a project that's been out of reach / a pipeline dream for over a decade, and it'd barely put a dent in that potential payout.
What happens with the other ~$22.5BB? Another line connecting Chesterfield or extend the airport line to St. Charles? Let's put down another $1BB.
$21.5BB.
City purchases it's own NFL franchise and builds a state-of-the-art stadium with payout funds? -$2.5 Billion dollars.
$19BB. Still loads left.
Incentives for a major company to move HQ to STL and provide high quality jobs/build a new HQ Downtown?
Fix infrastructure?
Major vanity project?
Speed redevelopment of The Landing or Old North?
It is a wild amount of money, but with the history STL leadership has of shooting itself in the foot I am not confident STL citizens would see very much improved that actually helps the city or their day-to-day life.
I want the NFL to be EMBARRESSED by STL and how badly they screwed up. Whether it's by an astoundingly large payout that makes headlines everywhere, or through a Jury that exposes the dirty secrets and horrible business practices of all 32 Owners to the point that every US city thinks twice before ever negotiating with the NFL again.
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You're talking about the $750mm option GC stated above, and the total STL would receive would be $24bb, including Stank's initial $750mm.npav wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2021Or if STL goes for all the cash possible, let's say the $500MM option is taken. What would STL realistically do with $23.25BB? Build the N/S MetroLink and then-some?
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^^Reminder that it's not a good idea to count chickens before they hatch, that nothing is guaranteed to us. Meanwhile, I'm remembering how news came out recently that the League was anticipating damages of $8-12BB already. My conservative anticipation previously mentioned in this thread is for $10BB, that the Plaintiffs would total damages at $5BB which would be matched with $5BB in punitive damages. The 25-number has rattled in the back of my head, in case $5BB in damages is met with quadrupled punitive damages, but those numbers are too big to consider ahead of a verdict.
Perhaps unfortunately, STL County Council Chair Rita Days is already wanting to make settlement considerations a public process...
STL Biz Journal: St. Louis County lawmaker has idea for how to spend possible Rams settlement
Couple quick thoughts...
1. When considering how feasible these numbers are, here's a reminder...
Forbes: NFL, TV Networks Sign $105 Billion Broadcast Rights Deals
FYI That contract's for the 2023-2033 seasons across multiple media platforms. CBS, ABC/ESPN, NBC, and Fox will pay $89.5BB, a 108% increase from their previous contract. The rest will be paid by Amazon. This contract was announced in March 2021.
2. I'm thinking the Plaintiffs will use this very recent contract in their suit. I'm thinking the LA media market strongly led to that 108% increase in broadcasting rights revenues. That's definitely more motive for frauds having been committed right there.
3. Even with those numbers above, I can't imagine many, let alone any, NFL franchise owners have $500MM sitting around in free cash. There could be some serious franchise turnover.
4. I can't imagine a more hated NFL owner in NFL history than StanK. I can imagine another owner taking a swing at him.
5. I do anticipate the Plaintiffs hearing StanK's offer tomorrow, then telling him where he can stuff it, and that we'll see him again at trial.
6. If Plaintiff's Counsel does get attorneys' fees in the billions of dollars, I again anticipate they'll be the new owners of a new STL franchise, whether expansion or not.
Perhaps unfortunately, STL County Council Chair Rita Days is already wanting to make settlement considerations a public process...
STL Biz Journal: St. Louis County lawmaker has idea for how to spend possible Rams settlement
Counting chickens before they hatch.Days said in an interview that she'll push for a hearing next week to get more information about the Rams case from Page and his top attorney, Beth Orwick. Right now, Days said, she has no information about who will decide whether to settle and for how much.
"I think it would be nice to know what we're anticipated" to receive from the case, she said.
Couple quick thoughts...
1. When considering how feasible these numbers are, here's a reminder...
Forbes: NFL, TV Networks Sign $105 Billion Broadcast Rights Deals
FYI That contract's for the 2023-2033 seasons across multiple media platforms. CBS, ABC/ESPN, NBC, and Fox will pay $89.5BB, a 108% increase from their previous contract. The rest will be paid by Amazon. This contract was announced in March 2021.
2. I'm thinking the Plaintiffs will use this very recent contract in their suit. I'm thinking the LA media market strongly led to that 108% increase in broadcasting rights revenues. That's definitely more motive for frauds having been committed right there.
3. Even with those numbers above, I can't imagine many, let alone any, NFL franchise owners have $500MM sitting around in free cash. There could be some serious franchise turnover.
4. I can't imagine a more hated NFL owner in NFL history than StanK. I can imagine another owner taking a swing at him.
5. I do anticipate the Plaintiffs hearing StanK's offer tomorrow, then telling him where he can stuff it, and that we'll see him again at trial.
6. If Plaintiff's Counsel does get attorneys' fees in the billions of dollars, I again anticipate they'll be the new owners of a new STL franchise, whether expansion or not.
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I too believe there exists a real possibility that Bob Blixt is majority owner of an STL team. And I hope he has the ballz to put that stadium in St, Chuck. The county and the city don’t deserve it.