I'm so old I remember a plan to spruce up the garages' retail spaces.... maybe 5 years or so ago? It's somewhere on this site. And I'm pretty sure they didn't even have Caleco's in their plans. Anyway, yeah, if they can't blow the hole thing up and do some mixed-use replacement, at least sprucing up the storefronts and the overall look a bit would be some progress.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Oct 13, 2021So out of the two Kiener garages, we are down to only one corner retail spot open out of eight (Hooters) and a handful of smaller things open in less prominent spots.
Maybe this will be the push the owners need to at least spruce the garages up
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Jimmy John's was garbage before COVID. They cut down their 10-15 open hours per week to zero due to COVID, so in that sense it was a COVID closure. But in a larger sense they had already shed most of their open hours before COVID existed without actually listing their hours anywhere. It was a mystery. And you couldn't go inside to order. There were no window signs listing hours, so it was impossible to even know when they were open. Their website was wrong. Google was wrong, etc.dbInSouthCity wrote:Jimmy Johns- covid closuremetzgda wrote: Retail businesses that I used to frequent are almost all gone and include: Panera, Jimmy Johns, Met Square food court, Starbucks on Olive, Kaldi's in City Garden, Crazy Bowls, ... I'm sure there are many more.
Much like Caleco's, it was barely surviving. COVID culled the herd of some poorly-run restaurants that were staggering around waiting to be put out of their misery.
Hello all.
I travel for a living and would like to pipe in a few observations on downtown STL and cities that I have visited recently.
I agree that downtown is lacking the street level activity and crowds. Just a few months ago during the summer it was better with visitors. I have to say that the activity om the streets due to the worker changes and lack of conventions is blatantly there. However, I do, on the other hand, I still see the work on buildings happening.
Let's face it... the pandemic has altered cities and we are still in a pandemic. Nearly 100,000 cases a day in the USA is *still* keeping employers scared and *still* keeping employees working remotely / differently.
Nashville is unique IMO. It is highly a vacation setting (especially for women travelers). Visiting there, most crowded areas of downtown are the tourists spots, other areas of the downtown core are not as busy pre-pandemic IMO. Nashville downtown core is also like rolling the CWE, Loop, and Downtown STL all together in Downtown STL. It is much more condensed and cohesive.
That being said...
Just returned from 4 days (weekdays) in Los Angeles. Talk about dismal. Downtown, Farmers Market, The Grove, and Hollywood... gone wrong. All of them are dismal with crowds, loss of amenities, closures and did I mention quiet? For LA, it was shocking. Traffic was almost a delight even in rush-hour for LA standards. There just isn't people getting back out to the city core. In all of the core districts forget anything that was once 24 hours. I couldn't find anything open after 9pm for food and most stores closed at 7pm. In addition.. what is going on in LA (and the other cities below) with the homeless tents, trash and graffiti issues. Seriously, I have never seen anything like this in this country. LA is plagued everywhere with homeless tents, campers, trash, graffiti. It looks like a third world country/city. Nothing seems to be getting better. The tents are literally along major interstates, streets and in front of stores, houses, apartments ...you name it. There seems to be no help for them, or removal of trash, feces or anything. It's shocking. If this was happening here.... it would be the end of the world I tell ya.
Side Note: Also went to Santa Monica downtown and pier. On a Friday, the pier was dead for what it usually is. The shopping district downtown was closed at 7pm. When I say closed... I mean closed. All major retailers closed at 7pm. Went to Cheesecake Factory (I know cliche but it was open til 9) and I would say it had 10 tables out of 100. It was DEAD! Friday night. There just isn't people out.
Portland. OR. See above. Same issue (even worse) as LA with tents, homeless and trash everywhere. The downtown is just sad. For a city that was on the upswing and vibrancy... the pandemic has sucked its soul out. Bordered up buildings and closures everywhere. The place is a disaster zone IMO and makes downtown STL look immaculate and vibrant.
Seattle, WA. See Portland. Much the same. Pikes Market was busy... the rest of downtown dismal Street traffic and life. Graffiti, trash, homeless tents everywhere as well.
Kansas City last week Tuesday before LA. Stayed downtown at the Phillips. Nice boutique hotel BTW. Downtown was dead all day. Quiet streets and very few people. The streetcar to Union Station had a fee people on it at lunchtime going northbound. Union Station was dead and the restaurant had closed that day inside due to no workers. But no homeless tents thankfully.
Tomorrow I head to downtown Atlanta. Will report.
Another note... look at NYC, ther are hurting so bad.
Until the pandemic is clearly "over" or we resume some kind of new "normalcy"... this is the status quo I am afraid. STL is not alone by any means. At least in my observations across the country within the past month.
I travel for a living and would like to pipe in a few observations on downtown STL and cities that I have visited recently.
I agree that downtown is lacking the street level activity and crowds. Just a few months ago during the summer it was better with visitors. I have to say that the activity om the streets due to the worker changes and lack of conventions is blatantly there. However, I do, on the other hand, I still see the work on buildings happening.
Let's face it... the pandemic has altered cities and we are still in a pandemic. Nearly 100,000 cases a day in the USA is *still* keeping employers scared and *still* keeping employees working remotely / differently.
Nashville is unique IMO. It is highly a vacation setting (especially for women travelers). Visiting there, most crowded areas of downtown are the tourists spots, other areas of the downtown core are not as busy pre-pandemic IMO. Nashville downtown core is also like rolling the CWE, Loop, and Downtown STL all together in Downtown STL. It is much more condensed and cohesive.
That being said...
Just returned from 4 days (weekdays) in Los Angeles. Talk about dismal. Downtown, Farmers Market, The Grove, and Hollywood... gone wrong. All of them are dismal with crowds, loss of amenities, closures and did I mention quiet? For LA, it was shocking. Traffic was almost a delight even in rush-hour for LA standards. There just isn't people getting back out to the city core. In all of the core districts forget anything that was once 24 hours. I couldn't find anything open after 9pm for food and most stores closed at 7pm. In addition.. what is going on in LA (and the other cities below) with the homeless tents, trash and graffiti issues. Seriously, I have never seen anything like this in this country. LA is plagued everywhere with homeless tents, campers, trash, graffiti. It looks like a third world country/city. Nothing seems to be getting better. The tents are literally along major interstates, streets and in front of stores, houses, apartments ...you name it. There seems to be no help for them, or removal of trash, feces or anything. It's shocking. If this was happening here.... it would be the end of the world I tell ya.
Side Note: Also went to Santa Monica downtown and pier. On a Friday, the pier was dead for what it usually is. The shopping district downtown was closed at 7pm. When I say closed... I mean closed. All major retailers closed at 7pm. Went to Cheesecake Factory (I know cliche but it was open til 9) and I would say it had 10 tables out of 100. It was DEAD! Friday night. There just isn't people out.
Portland. OR. See above. Same issue (even worse) as LA with tents, homeless and trash everywhere. The downtown is just sad. For a city that was on the upswing and vibrancy... the pandemic has sucked its soul out. Bordered up buildings and closures everywhere. The place is a disaster zone IMO and makes downtown STL look immaculate and vibrant.
Seattle, WA. See Portland. Much the same. Pikes Market was busy... the rest of downtown dismal Street traffic and life. Graffiti, trash, homeless tents everywhere as well.
Kansas City last week Tuesday before LA. Stayed downtown at the Phillips. Nice boutique hotel BTW. Downtown was dead all day. Quiet streets and very few people. The streetcar to Union Station had a fee people on it at lunchtime going northbound. Union Station was dead and the restaurant had closed that day inside due to no workers. But no homeless tents thankfully.
Tomorrow I head to downtown Atlanta. Will report.
Another note... look at NYC, ther are hurting so bad.
Until the pandemic is clearly "over" or we resume some kind of new "normalcy"... this is the status quo I am afraid. STL is not alone by any means. At least in my observations across the country within the past month.
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Matguy, thanks for the well-thought out post. Much-appreciated. As someone who has visited Austin recently I can also vouch for their homelessness problem. It shocks the eye.
I wanted to add my observations of DC last week. So this might be a good sub-thread - Post Pandemic City Observations? DC was utterly dead - K-Street, where I spent most of my time, had multiple boarded-up windows and lease or sale signs. This is "K"-Street!! Homeless people were everywhere. It reminded me of Pre-Pandemic Downtown Seattle, and people were openly using drugs in the parts a block away from the White House. As stated above, it was hard to find open restaurants near Capital Hill open. The only area of the District that was busy at night I saw was George Town and Navy Yard, which have large residential populations. It was effortless driving around the District without massive traffic jams, and I made it out to Dulles from Downtown in about 20 minutes on a Friday - unheard of Pre-pandemic.
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Speaking of Portland, the company at which I work has a large presence downtown, and I am hearing locals do NOT want to work in downtown Portland and we are seeing staff attrition. That surprised me.
Meanwhile we are working from home now until 1/10/2022.
Meanwhile we are working from home now until 1/10/2022.
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Walked around Downtown Chicago for a bit this weekend. What a fantastic downtown. While it was Sunday and obviously crawling with tourists, it was refreshing to see how many residents were out and about just enjoying the nice day.
As much as I love STL I would love to move there for a few years someday. Just to experience a level of urban vibrancy that STL simply can't provide anytime in the foreseeable future.
As much as I love STL I would love to move there for a few years someday. Just to experience a level of urban vibrancy that STL simply can't provide anytime in the foreseeable future.
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To echo MatGuy I was in Seattle the first week of September and agree that Pike Place was crowded but just two to three blocks away was hit or miss with some stuff open but some dead zones here and there. Now the Capitol Hill area--(CHOP or CHAZ as it's been called in the last 18 months or so) was pretty vibrant on a sunny 75 degree Tuesday. People at outdoor cafes and an art fair going on. As much as FOX News has convinced folks living in towns in Alabama or West Virginia with only a vape shop or Dollar General open in their central business district that it's an active war zone it seemed pretty quiet and pleasant. Yes our national problem of homelessness is definitely more evident in that city than some others.
Alki Beach and the West Seattle business district were quite busy as you'd expect a sunny Sunday. Of course the weather was a factor but the bridge connecting West Seattle is currently closed for repairs making access to the area more difficult.
Alki Beach and the West Seattle business district were quite busy as you'd expect a sunny Sunday. Of course the weather was a factor but the bridge connecting West Seattle is currently closed for repairs making access to the area more difficult.
Chicago is another one where the difference is night and day.
The Loop is a ghost town as downtown office workers still haven't returned. Many businesses are closed or on reduced hours.
The closed Macy's at Water Tower Place is jarring as are other Michigan Ave mainstays.
The number of homeless and daytime vagrants is greatly increased: especially on the lower/underpass streets where the sidewalks are unusable because of the encampments. They also love hanging out on the patios of closed restaurants. The Cantina Loredo on State Street is a party as the homeless drink 32oz ice beers while yelling at the women going by.
Dining options everywhere are greatly reduced as 9pm kitchen closing or full closing is the new norm.
We spent two days in the suburbs at a hotel in the middle of a suburban office park. There were maybe 15 cars total at the hotel and every office building (on three sides) were empty on a week day.
The same vehicular mayhem you see here in St. Louis happens up there. Dodge Challengers flying up streets at 80mph. Or they stop in the middle of traffic and start a party. Fireworks/roman candle wars happen on a normal September Friday night. Packs of motorcycles roaring everywhere. Cops not stopping anything.
We stayed at a Marriott Courtyard in the River North Area and their evening security is to lock the front doors with a physical key: you can't use your electronic key to open. So a security guard has to walk over to open the door, you have to show them you drivers license and they have to check against an approved list before you can come in.
The Loop is a ghost town as downtown office workers still haven't returned. Many businesses are closed or on reduced hours.
The closed Macy's at Water Tower Place is jarring as are other Michigan Ave mainstays.
The number of homeless and daytime vagrants is greatly increased: especially on the lower/underpass streets where the sidewalks are unusable because of the encampments. They also love hanging out on the patios of closed restaurants. The Cantina Loredo on State Street is a party as the homeless drink 32oz ice beers while yelling at the women going by.
Dining options everywhere are greatly reduced as 9pm kitchen closing or full closing is the new norm.
We spent two days in the suburbs at a hotel in the middle of a suburban office park. There were maybe 15 cars total at the hotel and every office building (on three sides) were empty on a week day.
The same vehicular mayhem you see here in St. Louis happens up there. Dodge Challengers flying up streets at 80mph. Or they stop in the middle of traffic and start a party. Fireworks/roman candle wars happen on a normal September Friday night. Packs of motorcycles roaring everywhere. Cops not stopping anything.
We stayed at a Marriott Courtyard in the River North Area and their evening security is to lock the front doors with a physical key: you can't use your electronic key to open. So a security guard has to walk over to open the door, you have to show them you drivers license and they have to check against an approved list before you can come in.
Posts like matguy's are what I think of when I hear people ranting about homeless problems in STL. We may have our issues, but they absolutely pale in comparison to other cities like the ones mentioned above. I don't know that any market has an idea on what the solutions are.
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We may have our issues, but they absolutely pale in comparison to other cities
HERE HERE!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg9Eavk-v4w
HERE HERE!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg9Eavk-v4w
Can't speak for LA but as a Cali/Bay Area resident speak to a few things that are probably true for other cities and unique to Cali.
The homeless is not nearly as common as when you get away from San Fran itself and some select areas of Oakland & Berkeley. In other words, my family visiting from Minnesota over Turkey day & attending 49er/Viking game will not see it as strikingly as say a tourist going into San Fran for the weekend to check out Fisherman's Wharf, etc. I assume that is is the case in most metro areas where you have concentration is urban centers for resources, places to stay warm and corners to duck into.
What unique to Cali, the weather warmer climate and sky high housing/rental prices is a recipe for my people able to survive on street and or cars & RVs. So out of nowhere in a lot of industrial areas you will see a line of RVs and cars parked at all times of the day. In addition, I understand that Caltrans can't legally remove homeless from their property unless it poses a hazard to themselves So a lot of large homeless encampments are literally at freeway intersections in open site to anyone who commutes or is coming/going in a car and the only time you see CHP get involved is when someone gets in the median. What is changing at a snails pace but have seen it is California state budget included a serious bit of coin to help Cities & Caltrans to clean up dumping grounds, abandon cars, and so forth. Not as much progress but have definitely seen some efforts on my commute to finally deal with trash & some of the freeway intersections that have gotten out of hand..
The homeless is not nearly as common as when you get away from San Fran itself and some select areas of Oakland & Berkeley. In other words, my family visiting from Minnesota over Turkey day & attending 49er/Viking game will not see it as strikingly as say a tourist going into San Fran for the weekend to check out Fisherman's Wharf, etc. I assume that is is the case in most metro areas where you have concentration is urban centers for resources, places to stay warm and corners to duck into.
What unique to Cali, the weather warmer climate and sky high housing/rental prices is a recipe for my people able to survive on street and or cars & RVs. So out of nowhere in a lot of industrial areas you will see a line of RVs and cars parked at all times of the day. In addition, I understand that Caltrans can't legally remove homeless from their property unless it poses a hazard to themselves So a lot of large homeless encampments are literally at freeway intersections in open site to anyone who commutes or is coming/going in a car and the only time you see CHP get involved is when someone gets in the median. What is changing at a snails pace but have seen it is California state budget included a serious bit of coin to help Cities & Caltrans to clean up dumping grounds, abandon cars, and so forth. Not as much progress but have definitely seen some efforts on my commute to finally deal with trash & some of the freeway intersections that have gotten out of hand..
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I spent nearly 3 weeks in San Diego between 9/12 to last week and in downtown San Diego itself there weren’t many homeless at all but plenty of tenants lining the I-5 at interchanges. Other notable thing was that downtown San Diego was no less or more busy then downtown stl on a normal covid week day morning. One thing that’s totally different is San Diego’s downtown would be like having CWE, S Grand, Grove all be part of neighborhoods that make up “downtown”
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While I may take some comfort in hearing about other cities struggling I just wish StL could be the exception to the rule for once….
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Union station had a ridiculous summer financially, city museums was as busy as ever, the downtown hotels too, ballpark village, restaurants that stayed open killed it this summer (rooster got a bigger space because it always had 25-40 people waiting for a table) and this is all with the Cardinals drawing 1m less fans this season.moorlander wrote: ↑Oct 19, 2021While I may take some comfort in hearing about other cities struggling I just wish StL could be the exception to the rule for once….
Downtown has many things to improve upon but this doom and gloom is just bizarre for someone that’s down here literally 24 hours a day and generally deals with numbers and not feelings
I was surprised (and encouraged) to see Bob O'Loughlin's name on the new $20 million facility SLU just announced. Obviously it's entirely anecdotal, but a good sign nonetheless that his empire is stabilizing from any Covid disruption.
I don't know what you are talking about. Just spent a week in NYC for work. I lived there for several years before moving to STL and to be honest I could not tell the difference. Crowded bars, parks, shops. Impossible to get a restaurant reservation, as usual (and they were always packed inside). Chatted with a few people who are retail execs over there and was told that the only major pandemic-related issue they are facing (besides the labor shortage that is a national problem) is lack of international tourists due to the Europe travel ban that is expiring in November anyway.matguy70 wrote: ↑Oct 19, 2021Another note... look at NYC, ther are hurting so bad.
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Lunchtime Live is back on Wednesdays at Post Office Plaza
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/10/20 ... ile-crime/
Magnificent Mile: More Trouble For Area That Was Once A Crown Jewel Of American Retail
Magnificent Mile: More Trouble For Area That Was Once A Crown Jewel Of American Retail
CHICAGO (CBS) — Chicago Police have issued a formal warning after continued robberies on and around the city’s Magnificent Mile, at a time when stores continue to leave while others fight to stay in business after big pandemic hits.
CBS 2’s Tara Molina reports that retail leaders say the problem is so bad, that new business is hesitant to move in. That hesitation stems not only from the continued retail theft and robbery issue here, and across the city, but the perception that the city isn’t a safe place to be right now.
A stretch of North Michigan Avenue remains vacant and locked up–telling of the struggle on the city’s Mag Mile. Former tenants like Macy’s and Disney are gone, and there are no plans for a new tenant for the old Macy’s space at the Water Tower Place anytime soon.
“I think it does not help in terms of the recovery for downtown Chicago,” said Robb Karr, president and CEO of the Illinois Retail Merchants Association. “The impression around the nation is that Chicago is not a very safe place to be. And the incidents we saw this morning, over the weekend, the episodes before that, only feed that.”
Karr said the sales tax loss related to these continued crimes hits the city, county, and state of Illinois.
With continued robberies in the area, Chicago police have issued a warning about suspects only described as young men, in their teens, robbing items on display. No one is in custody, and the robberies are still under investigation.
“It’s a serious problem, and we have to address it,” said Ald. Brian Hopkins (2nd), adding the impact on the city is much bigger than the police warning because shoppers and visitors aren’t the only people taking notice. “The commercial brokers tell us that when they get potential interest from a tenant, that’s one of the first questions they ask, is what’s happening in Chicago to stem the tide of retail shoplifting rings that have been operating with impunity downtown? And we don’t have a good answer right now for that.”
“We’re hopeful those vacancy rates will continue to decline.”
But it’s not just continued issues on and around the Mag Mile causing concern. At least three 7-Elevens were hit during the Monday morning commute, by crews of armed robbers downtown.
“The Police Department has to work in closer conjunction with the State’s Attorneys office, they’ve been very reluctant to prosecute retail theft,” said Hopkins.
Karr agreed.
“I think we have to look at prosecution,” he said. “Clearly there’s a feeling running through the criminal elements that there are no consequences here. We have to look to the courts, and I think we have to just look to all the players in this drama to get Chicago to what it once was.”
Hopkins said Chicago police are trying to take a proactive approach by acting on information from sources.
“We have a tactical plan in place to respond to any intelligence that comes our way about planned retail theft. There was a rumor one of the high end stores on Oak Street was going to get hit, yet again, this weekend,” he said. “We were able to deploy a force, including undercover resources. It didn’t happen, fortunately, but we were ready if it did.”
The Cook County State’s Attorney’s office released the following statement with regard to concerns on the Mag Mile:The State’s Attorney’s office said this year to date, its prosecutors have reviewed and issued charges for 38 retail theft cases in ZIP code 60611, which includes the Mag Mile and Streeterville. A total of 18 were approved for felony charges, 10 were prosecuted, and convictions were obtained for six.“We recognize community concerns around crime, and the impact it can have on one’s sense of safety as well as the economic stability of a business. We continue to prosecute retail theft cases as misdemeanors and felonies when appropriate to do so based on the facts and evidence.”
The State’s Attorney’s office also noted that in December 2016, State’s Attorney Kim Foxx increased the threshold for felony retail theft charges to $1,000, which the office said has allowed the prosecutors to focus on the drivers of violence rather than low-level nonviolent offenses. Prosecutors said misdemeanor charges are issued for some such thefts, but those are not included in the aforementioned data.
The State’s Attorney’s office also said this year to date, it has reviewed 82 gun cases in the 60611 ZIP code, approved charges on 70, prosecuted 29, and obtained convictions on 23.
Chicago Police did not respond to a request for comment.
Meanwhile, at least one Mag Mile store, Nieman Marcus, says it has no plans to go anywhere – despite the fact that the building that houses the store has been sold:“Neiman Marcus Group has no plans to close its Chicago location. Neiman Marcus is currently a tenant in this building, which is owned by the 737 North Michigan Avenue Investors LLC.”
One person shot at the parking across Reign and Burro Loco! That parking lot has become the hanging spot of thugs now! They broke one of the brick walls from the fencing and have made that parking lot inaccessible with the drug dealings and drug use!
Who own this parking lot?
Owner needs to be accountable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Who own this parking lot?
Owner needs to be accountable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It as if Missouri’s lax gun laws, local police being banned from working with fbi, atf and fed agencies on gun related crimes is the real problem and not a night club. Who would have guessed it?!?
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If Tishaura wants an easy political win and some positive national news coverage she would start cracking down on the owners of these surface lots downtown. Whether is be a use tax or other mechanism we need to make these less profitable to own and operate in our central core.
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Just a few posts above, we have an article slamming Chicago for a slew of gun-related issues in the heart of downtown.
Does Illinois have lax gun laws? Are their police banned from cooperating with federal agencies?
This is an American problem.
Does Illinois have lax gun laws? Are their police banned from cooperating with federal agencies?
This is an American problem.