urbanSTL

Me and the Gf are actually looking to buy a condo downtown in the coming months.  But that aside it seems right when DT starts to gain steam Something happens like the 2008 recession or 2020 pandemic.  The city really needs to find a way to have momentum acierate faster before down turns happen.  

Thatguy644 wrote: ↑

Oct 15, 2021

Me and the Gf are actually looking to buy a condo downtown in the coming months.  But that aside it seems right when DT starts to gain steam Something happens like the 2008 recession or 2020 pandemic.  The city really needs to find a way to have momentum acierate faster before down turns happen.  

We are looking for a multi use building where my partner can have her firms HQ on first floor and ideally we have 2nd and 3rd floor for living space. It’s going to be a hard find but we have a few locations to explore in downtown west.

I think of Downtown as being in a moment of transition, and it has been in transition for decades now. 

In the past it was a classic 50s CBD. Filled with marquee shopping and the center for the white collar workforce. We all know the story of what happened next: Suburban malls stole the retail away and Clayton and the 64/270 corridors stole the commuter offices. It was bad planning but it happened, and because it did the Downtown economic landscape has completely changed. 

It takes time to completely transition the uses of a neighborhood as complex as downtown, especially in a slow growth region. Downtown still needs to work on bringing in more workers and filling office leases, but I am far more excited when I see things like new residential units and hotel rooms open. That is a much more stable framework in this economic climate to get people on the streets, filling up restaurants, and hopefully patronizing future retail options.

 Hmmmmm a moment of transition multiple decades long...  True.  Twenty, fifty, one hundred years?  All just a blink of an eye when compared to the history of the universe I suppose.

This reminds me of something I've been doing lately to pacify myself when I'm dismayed by the destruction of historic development for something like a QT: I start to take a MUCH longer view on things.  I realize sooner or later the reset button is gonna get pressed on this whole thing.  I mean, whether it's climate change or a meteor or something else its gonna happen maybe as soon as within 100 years from now,  maybe not for 1,000 or maybe not for 500,000 years from now.  But it's gonna happen and "nature" will reclaim it all.

Have a great weekend guys!!!  LOL

^ Indeed. We (and everything we build) is not long for this world. But, let's at least try to make it a less miserable place while we're here

Just took a walk downtown on my lunch break, and I have to say, it's just at historic depressing levels.  Even for downtown St. Louis.  COVID-19 has just sucked whatever daytime life there was out of downtown on a weekday.
Retail businesses that I used to frequent are almost all gone and include: Panera, Jimmy Johns, Met Square food court, Starbucks on Olive, Kaldi's in City Garden, Crazy Bowls, ...  I'm sure there are many more.
COVID challenges are not unique to STL or the fault of anyone.  However, it magnifies how fragile of a framework our region has allowed downtown to work within.  A fraction of the pre-COVID employment (and might not jump back much), minimal residents, disconnection from surrounding neighborhoods, aging infrastructure, and inability to keep a pleasurable walking experience.

One thought I had, was for the city to formalize one or two retail / pedestrian alleys through downtown.  This has been talked about before on 7th Street I think?  But put tax incentives in place to encourage businesses to open or relocate along one or two corridors (thinking 7th Street and Washington Avenue), and focus on the pedestrian experience.  STL downtown as it is has too many blocks, and too many breaks.  If we could do something like this, it would encourage density which in turn should create a safer and more pleasurable environment for tourists and locals alike.

metzgda wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

Retail businesses that I used to frequent are almost all gone and include: Panera, Jimmy Johns, Met Square food court, Starbucks on Olive, Kaldi's in City Garden, Crazy Bowls, ...  I'm sure there are many more.

Welcome back, some info on those

Panera closed before covid because their new model focuses on drive thru
Jimmy Johns- covid closure
Met Square Food Court-  USDA signed a 20 years $72,000,000 lease that required lab space, this was the solution 
Stabacks on Olive- as you noticed it was replaced by 2nd location of Park Ave, Starbacks relocated to a bigger space in new office building in Ballpark village 
Kaldis - closed temp bc of covid and said will re open this fall
Crazy Bowls- closed to make space for the New downtown DGX store 

new to downtown-  Havana's cuban on Wash Ave, Whisky On Washington, Ukraft in Peabody building, Prime 55 in Le Méridien hotel,  a Mexican restaurant slated for on Caruso's on Wash Ave and another restaurant slated for Bobbys place,  Salt and Smoke at new ballpark village residential tower  

Just leaving a 2-day jaunt in Nashville. All I can say is we’re being punked by our political and business leaders. What a sad sad downtown we have and don’t deserve. It’s high time STL pulls it’s head out of its azz, quit voting for leaders who only care about social equity, and get our downtown to respectability.

They have no post-Covid issues there missing workers and people downtown. Such a joke.

STL needs to make Downtown a Tax-Free zone for retail and restaurants! Something to attract more businesses! Yes there’s new businesses opening but we need them at a faster pace! Give those huge tax abatement credits to people that will buy Downtown. It is pretty empty for a Downtown its size! It felt like a real city when the 20k Convention came to town. Yes Covid stopped the momentum it had but city leaders need and are required to be more creative. People hate when I say this but we can’t help communities in need if our backbone (Downtown) is not taken cared off. We need to generate more revenue to be able to help the communities in need. That’s just my PO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And get rid of the earnings tax. Lower it 1/10 for 10 straight years.

taxes are not the problem, as is demonstrated by every other city on the planet. the problem is 70+ years of clearance for automobiles, and a population that can't fathom any other way of living.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

And get rid of the earnings tax. Lower it 1/10 for 10 straight years.

earnings tax has be an obstacle to absolutely nobody.  Paul Larson, whos firm just invested $30M in downtown and moved its HQ from Chesterfield to Downtown gathered a group of 30-40 Mid level company CEOs to explain the math and how much financially sense it made to move from the county to the City.   Dont be surprised to hear about many more making the move after hearing from him 

Nashville convinced Alliance-Bernstein to move its HQ from Manhattan to Nashville and you want to talk about Larson. Hilarious, keep aiming high.

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

Nashville convinced Alliance-Bernstein to move its HQ from Manhattan to Nashville and you want to talk about Larson. Hilarious, keep aiming high.

the point of discussion was e-tax and how its not an obstacle. 

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

taxes are not the problem, as is demonstrated by every other city on the planet. the problem is 70+ years of clearance for automobiles, and a population that can't fathom any other way of living.

I would agree with urban as well in regards to the city earnings taxes (my wife paid it several years while working ATT Tower).   St. Louis City is in a low tax low service state that supports very little at local government so somehow services will need to be supported which is very different than my current situation in the Bay Area.   

Yes, auto's give our society amazing amount of convenience  as it has been for seventy some years now.  The reality is that high oil prices or even a carbon tax will not change this reality much going forward as EVs which can be built more cost effectively & will simply replace a gas car in time.   

What I would is that it also matters a lot on how things are governed and how those taxes are spent.    I think their is legit argument that city leadership has done less then a stellar job over the recent decades relative to other cities.   Maybe, just maybe some much needed regional focus by regional business leadership and a desire to invest in quality of life issues will finally be on front end instead of silver bullet projects will gets on a good trajectory.  As noted by building permits alone and the brickline things are happening.  

dweebe wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

Last night wasn't bad downtown. Probably first time in 18 months with events going on at both Stifel and Enterprise. The Blues home opener on Saturday should be nice.

Now if we can just get The Note in the Parc Pacific building to reopen as a pre-game option.

The Note (and its cousin, the Mexican food place) are not re-opening but others have shown interest, although i wouldn't expect anything until 2022 

Seems like there’s tons of great momentum in the Downtown West area, which should only continue to grow for the foreseeable future with a focus more on residential than office. That said, there’s still an abundance of developable land/buildings there, so I’d love to see Greater StL types really make a big push with developers in that area. It’s been said before here, but it would be great to see attached 3 story row houses get built there.

How do you get 3-story row houses when land speculators think their land is worth millions?

Massive tax on undeveloped or underdeveloped (ie surface lot) land in certain designated areas such as DT and DT West???

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

whitherSTL wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

And get rid of the earnings tax. Lower it 1/10 for 10 straight years.

earnings tax has be an obstacle to absolutely nobody.  Paul Larson, whos firm just invested $30M in downtown and moved its HQ from Chesterfield to Downtown gathered a group of 30-40 Mid level company CEOs to explain the math and how much financially sense it made to move from the county to the City.   Dont be surprised to hear about many more making the move after hearing from him 

I hope so.  Because the situation is pretty dire right now.

Dweebe’s post is complete BS. Do better. And the Alliance post about moving to Nashville was because Tennessee has no state income tax…..

quincunx wrote:How do you get 3-story row houses when land speculators think their land is worth millions?

This is downtown’s single biggest problem in my mind. Every parking lot owner thinks a 30 story tower belongs on their lot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SouthCityJR wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2021

Massive tax on undeveloped or underdeveloped (ie surface lot) land in certain designated areas such as DT and DT West???

My thought is you can get two extremes and neither are constructive measures.   On one end, you got the capitalist extreme which is land banking because  values are so cheap that you could wait years hoping for the big cash pay out.. I think is this in line with Seattlenative's post.  On the other end, I also think extreme taxation one way or another hurts as eventually you will get to a place of our convoluted tax system as it is.   So some capital will bail and the city owns more non tax generating property while others game the system and somehow not pay out.   

Where is the middle ground? not sure but downtown's really need all sorts of inputs from residential, from visitor/tourism, to event space to office.  I think downtown is relatively big piece of real estate to fill in as others noted and has the bones as a lot more is happening than what is given credit for.   In the end, I think the city is much better offer incentivizing development then trying to punish private property through taxation.