Crime Thread

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostSep 10, 2021#82262021-09-10T14:03+00:00

I would be fine with a downtown curfew for kids under 18. We had one in downtown kirkwood and while I hated it at the time it was pretty effective at keeping us in check.

The real long term solution here though is exactly what Tishaura said, we need to give these kids something to do at night. It's not a one size fits all thing and needs to be attacked from every angle. Libraries do lock ins, churches have youth events, sports leagues focus even more on involving kids living in poverty.

Hell a city program that lends Xboxes to our poorest kids would probably be worth its weight in gold. I bet if somebody spoke to the right person at Microsoft you could get them donated. Granted they would also need to be connected to broadband but you could kill two birds with one stone.

BellaVilla · PostSep 10, 2021#82272021-09-10T14:05+00:00

pappysoulard wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
BellaVilla wrote:
pappysoulard wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
This comment by the mayor will only further divide our community into the haves and haves not. People with families and property that want to protect their livelihoods and have the means will ultimately go through private means to secure these rights. What will end up happening is the less fortunate will not have these options and will be stuck with an ever dwindling public police force with fewer and fewer resources. Or these haves will move out. Both of these options are unacceptable on any terms if you are the mayor. You abandon tax paying individuals and you abandon the poorest communities.
Funny that you come here to call out our black, female Mayor for causing division but not the white alderman and white parking garage owner who basically fabricated the initial story.
Please clarify what is fabricated? Why would I call out the alderman for passing along concerns of his AND the mayors tax paying constituents? All the while the mayor deflects the concerns?

This isn’t a white/black issue. It is a STL issue and the end game is everyone loses, especially the poor black community who is dependent on public services, namely the police.

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Ok, sure, right. Race ISNT the issue in the former slave-Jim Crow-1919 massacre-red lined city. Sure thing, boss.

JJ Rivera · PostSep 10, 2021#82282021-09-10T14:19+00:00

BellaVilla wrote:
pappysoulard wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
BellaVilla wrote: Funny that you come here to call out our black, female Mayor for causing division but not the white alderman and white parking garage owner who basically fabricated the initial story.
Please clarify what is fabricated? Why would I call out the alderman for passing along concerns of his AND the mayors tax paying constituents? All the while the mayor deflects the concerns?

This isn’t a white/black issue. It is a STL issue and the end game is everyone loses, especially the poor black community who is dependent on public services, namely the police.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok, sure, right. Race ISNT the issue in the former slave-Jim Crow-1919 massacre-red lined city. Sure thing, boss.

Is not! Is there racism of course I’ve lived it as a minority but stop leaving in the past and concentrate in the present to make the future better! Has blaming everything on race made it better for blacks? I don’t think so! Has it made it better for my people in Philadelphia? I don’t think so! Problem is that most of the ones committing all these crimes and breaking the laws are blacks. Do we need to find a solution and work on it of course we do! But stop hiding on the race card when reality is reality! Does it bother to blame a race or specific ethnicity of course it does but we need to accept reality and African American communities need to stop blaming others and unite! Unite, create jobs, credit unions, shoot I went to Jersey and saw a Polish community and they had banks, stores, and a community organization. In Chicago us Puerto Ricans created our own stuff as well. Ya’ll remember the Chicago and New York Young-lords we took care of our people and now because of our unity I became someone, my friends kids are professionals as well. Until the African American community doesn’t unite as one they will continue to suffer as others won’t care. Atlanta is a great example of African American progress! They united, they created a structure, they created jobs, unions, credit unions, and most of them are thriving in a city that 51% black. Saint Louis loves to find excuses rather than finding solutions.

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pattimagee · PostSep 10, 2021#82292021-09-10T14:22+00:00

That XBOX idea is pretty awesome... I wonder if you couldn't pair that with a few great educational games like Minecraft, SimCity, Civilization, etc.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 10, 2021#82302021-09-10T14:42+00:00

I guess this is a good thread for this- as you all saw Police Chief Hayden is retiring.
I talked to a few cops this morning- all said the same thing - it’s a good thing. Not because Hayden was a bad Chief or anything but because he was too nice, they said he wouldn’t hurt a fly. He was very Indecisive and didn’t lead so other senior leadership kinda did their own thing

As far as replacement they said the mayors preference is a women of color. Internally there is one that could be but they think she hasn’t been at her current job long enough to make the jump to Chief. Although Chief is a mayoral appointment so there isn’t really a barrier there, Slay appointed Sam Dotson with thinner experience

soulardx · PostSep 10, 2021#82312021-09-10T15:30+00:00

Put $$ on Shawn Dace or Ryan Cousins being the next chief. Not a given, but strong strong favorites.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 10, 2021#82322021-09-10T15:32+00:00

soulardx wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
Put $$ on Shawn Dace or Ryan Cousins being the next chief. Not a given, but strong strong favorites.

Absolutely not. I’d rank them in like tier 3…like 6 people would need to pass on the job before they’re considered

soulardx · PostSep 10, 2021#82332021-09-10T15:59+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
soulardx wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
Put $$ on Shawn Dace or Ryan Cousins being the next chief. Not a given, but strong strong favorites.
Absolutely not. I’d rank them in like tier 3…like 6 people would need to pass on the job before they’re considered

We'll see, but I trust my sources. Haven't been wrong yet. Mayor has strong affinity to both commanders.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 10, 2021#82342021-09-10T16:09+00:00

City homicides are at 127 through yesterday and clearance rate is at 60%

2020 rate 29%
2019 rate 31%
2018 rate 41%
2017 rate 37%

What’s really remarkable is the job that the Mayors public safety team has done since she took over

After the first 4 months of 2021 we were on pace to exceed 2020 homicides
First 4 months
2020: 49
2021: 62
Next 4 months (New admin starts at end of April)
2020: 136
2021: 61! (-55%)

leeharveyawesome · PostSep 10, 2021#82352021-09-10T16:34+00:00

I predicted ten years ago that County homicides would eventually surpass City homicides. It will happen at some point. As people move so does crime.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 10, 2021#82362021-09-10T16:37+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
I predicted ten years ago that County homicides would eventually surpass City homicides. It will happen at some point. As people move so does crime.

Related- crime rate is a factor of population as you know. So on Monday’s road rage murder on wash Ave and 4th- the shooter and the victim were county residents, do we add that murder to county’s total or do we all these 2 to city’s population to figure out the rate?

JJ Rivera · PostSep 10, 2021#82372021-09-10T16:39+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:
leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
I predicted ten years ago that County homicides would eventually surpass City homicides. It will happen at some point. As people move so does crime.
Related- crime rate is a factor of population as you know. So on Monday’s road rage murder on wash Ave and 4th- the shooter and the victim were county residents, do we add that murder to county’s total or do we all these 2 to city’s population to figure out the rate?

In my opinion should fall under County’s if the shooter was from the county.

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BellaVilla · PostSep 10, 2021#82382021-09-10T17:01+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
City homicides are at 127 through yesterday and clearance rate is at 60%

2020 rate 29%
2019 rate 31%
2018 rate 41%
2017 rate 37%

What’s really remarkable is the job that the Mayors public safety team has done since she took over

After the first 4 months of 2021 we were on pace to exceed 2020 homicides
First 4 months
2020: 49
2021: 62
Next 4 months (New admin starts at end of April)
2020: 136
2021: 61! (-55%)

So, while the nation continues to see homicide rates climb from their already disturbing levels in 2020 (https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/29/us/homic ... index.html) in 2021, St. Louis has seen its homicide rate fall to 2013-2014 rates since the Jones-Isom regime took over? That's incredible news.

The clearance rate is also surprising and suggests to me that the new admin is excelling at repairing the community-police relationships that have been in shambles for years. They could also just be putting more resources towards detectives - any insight DB? 60% puts StL close to the National average of 69% (nice) and surpasses many peers

gone corporate · PostSep 10, 2021#82392021-09-10T21:52+00:00

The drop in homicides YTD 2021 is quite positive, and I hope it continues its year/year decline throughout 2021 and then into next year. This is in conjunction with the multiyear overall drop in crimes in the City. Positive momentum is truly manifesting itself. Credit to Mayor Jones is definitely due, as well as to Public Safety Director Dan Isom, of whom I have a very high personal opinion.

Regarding Downtown and the week's conversation thus far, I think we're getting off-point. The only color that matters within the Central Business District is green. If Downtown STL loses businesses for Clayton and the County, then those tax-paying entities are withdrawn from the City's coffers. That would also further cascade the decline of the professional business community, and the City cannot afford to see more corporate decline. Police exist to protect and defend not only civilians but entities like businesses, whether keeping John Dillinger from robbing banks to keeping one's employees safe from muggers and jackers when heading to their cars.

Maybe a bad analogy, and without any intention to be perceived inconsiderate towards any fellow Saint Louisans of different socioeconomic or, more particularly in this thread, ethno-demographic backgrounds... It sucks if a crime happens in your home and anything is damaged. Same time, you don't keep your priceless heirlooms, jewelry, and certificates sitting open in the living room. You keep those in the safe. If your house is robbed, and they grab the lawn furniture, that sucks. If they break in and grab the electronics, that's terrible. If they run off with the safe, that's potentially ruinous.

The City's largest revenue generators - our corporations - need to be kept in a safe.

I want more police in Downtown. I want less crime in Downtown. I want more professional businesses in Downtown that will best add to tax coffers. The Mayor's new administration has more time to act, and I look forward to seeing new solutions put into effect. And yes, I recognize that I'm armchair quarterbacking here, like all of us here.

I also really like that XBox idea. How can we make that happen?

Addendum, now that I'm on a rant here: Is that stupid Ride of the Century going on this weekend? Good God, I want to see some of those asshats seriously ticketed. I really, really hope that we bring in the State Highway Patrol to help keep those dudes in check.

BellaVilla · PostSep 10, 2021#82402021-09-10T22:17+00:00

You cannot disentangle race from policing, not in America and certainly not in St. Louis.

kipfilet · PostSep 11, 2021#82412021-09-11T06:20+00:00

Yep ride of the century happening, got out of downtown as soon as I could this afternoon and saw a bunch of them on the 70 ramp by the bridge. Not that I expect our ineffectual police force that does nothing about idiot drivers ignoring red lights to do anything about these people.

sc4mayor · PostSep 11, 2021#82422021-09-11T14:16+00:00

^ I was at the ballgame last night and while I didn’t have any issues getting around downtown, when standing at a Busch Stadium bar near 40 you could hear and see hundreds of them rolling into downtown on the Poplar. I could see them doing wheelies on the viaduct while I waited in line for a drink.

symphonicpoet · PostSep 11, 2021#82432021-09-11T16:54+00:00

^There were a few doing wheelies down Grand yesterday when we went out to dinner. Must have been spillover from the event. (Though to be fair, I see that from time to time anyway.)

bwcrow1s · PostSep 13, 2021#82442021-09-13T12:31+00:00

kipfilet wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
Yep ride of the century happening, got out of downtown as soon as I could this afternoon and saw a bunch of them on the 70 ramp by the bridge. Not that I expect our ineffectual police force that does nothing about idiot drivers ignoring red lights to do anything about these people.

The MOSHP should be stepping in at this point. Create choke points for state highways entering the city.

But, yet again, every year, nothing is done.

kipfilet · PostSep 13, 2021#82452021-09-13T13:59+00:00

How can the city leadership prepare itself for an event that happens every year at roughly the same time? Absolutely impossible!

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 13, 2021#82462021-09-13T14:38+00:00

^ it’s a tough thing to deal with. Riding a motorcycle isn’t illegal until they do something illegal like reckless riding but police cannot do much even when that happens because these riders will just step on it and chasing becomes a danger to other people on the road and pedestrians.

robertn42 · PostSep 13, 2021#82472021-09-13T15:48+00:00

Unfortunately my old Jeep Wrangler broke down at 44 and Kingshighway Friday night around 6:30. As I scrambled to get the vehicle off the road and into a somewhat safe place, literally hundreds if not a thousand of theses came roaring down 44, boxing in cars, pushing vehicles off the road, hanging off off ATVs and trucks to video stunts. It was a scary situation. Given the scale of it, I was shocked and disappointing at the utter lack of police presence from both the city and state. I have to ask, are they really doing what they can to serve and protect? Especially when they knew this was coming.

gone corporate · PostSep 13, 2021#82482021-09-13T18:38+00:00

BellaVilla wrote: ↑
Sep 10, 2021
You cannot disentangle race from policing, not in America and certainly not in St. Louis.

I very much agree to this, no doubt. What I'm thinking, however, is that it is possible to separate policing that protects individual people and policing that protects non-human assets, such as a bank, a business, a park, or a building. Where concern reemerges for protecting Downtown, I look for policing that primarily protects the business district as well as people.

Perhaps there just needs to be more policing done that's paid for by the Downtown community. Where we already have multiple neighborhoods that have supplemental security (including off-duty police working extra hours), maybe the Downtown neighborhood can increase the police they have by such means. Assuming it's already underway, perhaps we just need to have more of them specifically focused on Downtown's hard assets. Long story short, if the Central Business District itself is safer, perhaps businesses will return to it rather than talk about leaving it.

dbInSouthCity · PostSep 13, 2021#82492021-09-13T19:07+00:00

^ we do. We spend like $1,000,000 a year in CID money on secondary that’s staffed by TCF (mostly off duty SLMPD) but the City knows this so they allocated officers to areas with actual crime issues that would generally be assigned to downtown

But if you want that to be cut in half, support Citizens For Greater Downtown proposed replacement CID, they plan to cut safety and security spending to $1.5m over 3 year or $500 k a year. Ask Les Sterman or Dan Pistor why

dweebe · PostSep 13, 2021#82502021-09-13T19:11+00:00

robertn42 wrote: ↑
Sep 13, 2021
Unfortunately my old Jeep Wrangler broke down at 44 and Kingshighway Friday night around 6:30. As I scrambled to get the vehicle off the road and into a somewhat safe place, literally hundreds if not a thousand of theses came roaring down 44, boxing in cars, pushing vehicles off the road, hanging off off ATVs and trucks to video stunts. It was a scary situation. Given the scale of it, I was shocked and disappointing at the utter lack of police presence from both the city and state. I have to ask, are they really doing what they can to serve and protect? Especially when they knew this was coming.

We were on westbound on Choteau around 1pm Sunday. A pack of about 30 of them around us on both sides doing their tricks and revving their engines. Not one of the bikes had plates of any sort. They ran the red light at Tucker but then slightly paused for NB/SB traffic on Tucker and then Truman. We caught up to them once again at Jefferson as the light was red and too much traffic for them to run it. But once it was clear (before it went green) they all ran the red again.

Two city cops going eastbound on Choteau saw this an did nothing.

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