Yes, I know a company that is considering a new location but I can not say more at this time because I am not technically 'in the know' but I am aware of this confidential change.
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2019, pre covid the vibrancy was better then any other year since ive worked and/or lived here since 2011soulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Downtown St. Louis' biggest problem is Downtown Clayton as a rival. Sure, Covid and all, but the central business district vibrancy of downtown St. Louis has never been worse in my 25 years of working there. Clayton is the CBD for the region. DT St. Louis, #2.
What cities of our size have another CBD that so directly competes with downtown? Imagine all those Clayton businesses and workers in DT St. Louis - different place. With that said, horse is out of the barn.
Be all that as it may, I'd be curious on a direct comp on crime stats in DT STL, DT PIT, DT KC, DT CIN, etc. get a true sense of it.
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Clearly I’m talking about the Jones administration. Good lord.kipfilet wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021What exactly are these strides? Has there been any policy at the federal level that has meaningfully contributed to a decline in crime in cities such as St. Louis? At this point we all understand that 2020 was a massive outlier for most US cities. As life normalizes to an extent in 2021, crime is going back down, but I am cautious when it comes to reading downward trends (unlike others on this thread). So far, it is slightly lower than in the pre-2020 trend but the difference doesn't seem to be significant enough for that to constitute a trend.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Agreed, DB! It’s just such a harmful thing to print with so little to substantiate its claims. Furthermore, it undermines the strides our new administration is making in protecting us from violent crime.
Any policies that may have made a difference at the city level seem to have been promoted by the new mayoral administration, not the federal govt. Unless I am missing something.
^my bad, since you did not specify which administration it I assumed you were talking about federal.
Still, and in spite of the fact that I think the current mayoral administration is moving things in the right direction, my main points stand:
i) year-on-year comparisons are useless because 2020 was such an abnormal year;
ii) still not convinced of a downward trend compared to the pre-2020 period. As we collect more data, I may change my mind.
Still, and in spite of the fact that I think the current mayoral administration is moving things in the right direction, my main points stand:
i) year-on-year comparisons are useless because 2020 was such an abnormal year;
ii) still not convinced of a downward trend compared to the pre-2020 period. As we collect more data, I may change my mind.
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kipfilet wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021^my bad, since you did not specify which administration it I assumed you were talking about federal.
Still, and in spite of the fact that I think the current mayoral administration is moving things in the right direction, my main points stand:
i) year-on-year comparisons are useless because 2020 was such an abnormal year;
ii) still not convinced of a downward trend compared to the pre-2020 period. As we collect more data, I may change my mind.
You seem to be conflating homicides and total crime. Total crime as even down in 2020. It’s been on the same downward trajectory since the 90s
Yes, I meant homicides, which is what matters mostly at the end of the day for matters of perception (and which is the trend we were talking about on this thread). My main points stand.
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Right, we’ll find out in the next 4 months and the first 6 of 2022 if we are on a meaningful pre 2015 trendkipfilet wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Yes, I meant homicides. My main points stand
July 2021 to June 2022 should be a good comp
To be more clear, I am talking daytime, foot-traffic from office workers in the true core of downtown. (I'll make that B3 to the South, Wash Ave to the north, Arch east and 14th west. So, that removes Ameren, Purina and Well Fargo workers from my POV.)dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 09, 20212019, pre covid the vibrancy was better then any other year since ive worked and/or lived here since 2011soulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Downtown St. Louis' biggest problem is Downtown Clayton as a rival. Sure, Covid and all, but the central business district vibrancy of downtown St. Louis has never been worse in my 25 years of working there. Clayton is the CBD for the region. DT St. Louis, #2.
What cities of our size have another CBD that so directly competes with downtown? Imagine all those Clayton businesses and workers in DT St. Louis - different place. With that said, horse is out of the barn.
Be all that as it may, I'd be curious on a direct comp on crime stats in DT STL, DT PIT, DT KC, DT CIN, etc. get a true sense of it.
I've seen fewer and fewer workers.
I wish I could more easily find data to back this opinion, but the only thing I can find is downtown booster bullsh*t from Downtown Inc (or whatever we're calling it now). And, they'll absolutely include the entirety of downtown to inflate the numbers. (come on, you think Wells Fargo workers are walking to 7th and Washington to eat lunch?)
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This isn’t a downtown stl issue- it’s a downtown issue all over the place since last March, I’ve been to 25 cities this year for work and it’s the same- at best about 25% of workers are back at officessoulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021To be more clear, I am talking daytime, foot-traffic from office workers in the true core of downtown. (I'll make that B3 to the South, Wash Ave to the north, Arch east and 14th west. So, that removes Ameren, Purina and Well Fargo workers from my POV.)dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 09, 20212019, pre covid the vibrancy was better then any other year since ive worked and/or lived here since 2011soulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Downtown St. Louis' biggest problem is Downtown Clayton as a rival. Sure, Covid and all, but the central business district vibrancy of downtown St. Louis has never been worse in my 25 years of working there. Clayton is the CBD for the region. DT St. Louis, #2.
What cities of our size have another CBD that so directly competes with downtown? Imagine all those Clayton businesses and workers in DT St. Louis - different place. With that said, horse is out of the barn.
Be all that as it may, I'd be curious on a direct comp on crime stats in DT STL, DT PIT, DT KC, DT CIN, etc. get a true sense of it.
I've seen fewer and fewer workers.
I wish I could more easily find data to back this opinion, but the only thing I can find is downtown booster bullsh*t from Downtown Inc (or whatever we're calling it now). And, they'll absolutely include the entirety of downtown to inflate the numbers. (come on, you think Wells Fargo workers are walking to 7th and Washington to eat lunch?)
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Your points do not stand. The new administration took control in April. Since then, homicides are down significantly from the 2016-2019 pacekipfilet wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021^my bad, since you did not specify which administration it I assumed you were talking about federal.
Still, and in spite of the fact that I think the current mayoral administration is moving things in the right direction, my main points stand:
i) year-on-year comparisons are useless because 2020 was such an abnormal year;
ii) still not convinced of a downward trend compared to the pre-2020 period. As we collect more data, I may change my mind.
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I would agree this isn't just St. Louis - but we already had a crime issue and this just makes it worse. Less foot traffic due to the pandemic has not helped. We were due to go back into the office September but this was delayed.
Aside from this happening everywhere, what are we going to do to put an end to this gun violence and change the perception of our city?
Aside from this happening everywhere, what are we going to do to put an end to this gun violence and change the perception of our city?
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It was bad before Covid, and it's worse now. My frame of reference goes back to the late '90s - downtown was in decline then, but it was so much more vibrant during the day than it is now. To me, the emptying of the Railway Exchange from the loss of May Co. and the closing of the Famous-Barr/Macy's has been the biggest blow in my time downtown, although we've also lost a few big law firms to Clayton (and consolidation), Ernst & Young left, the AT&T tower is now vacant, Arthur Andersen went out of business, etc.soulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Sure, Covid and all, but the central business district vibrancy of downtown St. Louis has never been worse in my 25 years of working there.
@bellavilla: one data point does not constitute a trend. I will shut up when I see 2022 data.
As I wrote originally, ("Sure, Covid and all.."), my observations are pre-Covid.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021This isn’t a downtown stl issue- it’s a downtown issue all over the place since last March, I’ve been to 25 cities this year for work and it’s the same- at best about 25% of workers are back at officessoulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021To be more clear, I am talking daytime, foot-traffic from office workers in the true core of downtown. (I'll make that B3 to the South, Wash Ave to the north, Arch east and 14th west. So, that removes Ameren, Purina and Well Fargo workers from my POV.)dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021
2019, pre covid the vibrancy was better then any other year since ive worked and/or lived here since 2011
I've seen fewer and fewer workers.
I wish I could more easily find data to back this opinion, but the only thing I can find is downtown booster bullsh*t from Downtown Inc (or whatever we're calling it now). And, they'll absolutely include the entirety of downtown to inflate the numbers. (come on, you think Wells Fargo workers are walking to 7th and Washington to eat lunch?)
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Anyway, if DT businesses are considering not re-upping in their current buildings, it’s because Carondalet Plaza, 8000 Forsyth and 8020 Forsyth are about to come available
Agree!BellaVilla wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Anyway, if DT businesses are considering not re-upping in their current buildings, it’s because Carondalet Plaza, 8000 Forsyth and 8020 Forsyth are about to come available
While I fully believe that DT STL crime is way too high, I also strongly suspect that the story was seeded by the DT STL companies who are negotiating leases to get a better rate.
Companies told Coatar, Coatar went the press, press knows Waldrop likes to be quoted complaining... bam, story.
Again, DT Clayton is the worst thing to happen to ever happen to DT St. Louis.
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Yeah and Clayton may be about to get a serious taste of its own Medicine as Chesterfield tries to build a CBD. Say what you will about Chesterfield (and I’ve said a lot), at least it’s a community that seems to be embracing a mix of uses, all be them on auto centric islands, that will attract young workers.soulardx wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Agree!BellaVilla wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021Anyway, if DT businesses are considering not re-upping in their current buildings, it’s because Carondalet Plaza, 8000 Forsyth and 8020 Forsyth are about to come available
While I fully believe that DT STL crime is way too high, I also strongly suspect that the story was seeded by the DT STL companies who are negotiating leases to get a better rate.
Companies told Coatar, Coatar went the press, press knows Waldrop likes to be quoted complaining... bam, story.
Again, DT Clayton is the worst thing to happen to ever happen to DT St. Louis.
^ Except Clayton has dense walkable prewar neighborhoods connected to good transit. I live in the Moorlands and can walk to my dentist, dry cleaners, hair salon, several restaurants, delis, a florist, a physical therapy place, the MetroLink, etc. I could take a short safe bike ride to Forest Park... These little greenfield CBD's in Chesterfield still won't be able to compete with that.
I love the Clayton hate lol. If St. Louis was growing even half as much as some of it's peers there would be enough to go around for all of these places. Instead of improving that we just stand here in a circular firing squad.
I love the Clayton hate lol. If St. Louis was growing even half as much as some of it's peers there would be enough to go around for all of these places. Instead of improving that we just stand here in a circular firing squad.
I want to be very clear on my Clayton POV - I am only talking DT Clayton being a competitor (and winner) as a CBD vs. DT STL.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2021^ Except Clayton has dense walkable prewar neighborhoods connected to good transit. I live in the Moorlands and can walk to my dentist, dry cleaners, hair salon, several restaurants, delis, a florist, a physical therapy place, the MetroLink, etc. These little greenfield CBD's in Chesterfield still won't be able to compete with that.
I love the Clayton hate lol. If St. Louis was growing even half as much as some of it's peers there would be enough to go around for all of these places. Instead of improving that we just stand here in a circular firing squad.
Cities the size of STL do not have enough big businesses to demand two, competing CBDs. I think that's unique to STL and makes our challenges unique. More businesses in a CBD, more foot traffic, more activity, more investment in infrastructure, less crime.
Clayton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chesterfield
probably shouldn't be on the crime thread now.
^ If the St. Louis region was growing and getting bigger it would, which is the point. Denver added half a million people in the last 10 years. If St. Louis had added just 100,000 people things would be vastly different. Clayton is there, it's not going anywhere. Now is the time to try and improve regional growth to support both business districts. Not having this repeated argument about Clayton vs. Downtown. It's pointless.
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Downtown "crime" issues never bothered me. What always bothered was that it just kind of sucks. It's been close a few times but always gets derailed somehow. I accept it for what it is. I can see how it would be kind of fun for an out of towner though. I desperately wanted to get back to work downtown initially but it appears that won't be happening at all, ever, in downtown or Clayton or anywhere. Whatever.
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Touchy touchy lol
I didn’t say Clayton sucks. I said it does not embrace a mix of uses (fact. They rejected a live music venue) and that they will lose office tenants to a chesterfield CBD (fact). So chill out.
I didn’t say Clayton sucks. I said it does not embrace a mix of uses (fact. They rejected a live music venue) and that they will lose office tenants to a chesterfield CBD (fact). So chill out.
^ What lol?
Pointing out that Clayton has dense, walkable, mixed-used neighborhoods that Chesterfield won't be able to compete with makes me "touchy?" Lighten up, man. I didn't say you said anything sucks. What I said is true...St. Louis could support all of these places if we had better population growth.
Chill out.
Pointing out that Clayton has dense, walkable, mixed-used neighborhoods that Chesterfield won't be able to compete with makes me "touchy?" Lighten up, man. I didn't say you said anything sucks. What I said is true...St. Louis could support all of these places if we had better population growth.
Chill out.
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Idk if you’ve noticed but like 75% of the metro couldn’t give a damn about walkability, so pointing it out isn’t really moving the needle for Clayton in a competition against Chesterfield for jobs.
Mods feel free to move to a Clayton thread
Mods feel free to move to a Clayton thread