urbanSTL

According to the Assessor
Rally's appraised value $331,900 - > $8,080 in property taxes
Captain D's $590,000, $11,933
Suck it schools kids! 
SLPS does have a 2/3% sales tax, but c'mon.

2020STL wrote: ↑

Aug 16, 2021

Really awesome to see continued development... any ballpark on the groundbreaking of this project?

Sometime this Fall. I once heard October as the start timeframe, but we'll see about that.

sc4mayor wrote:^ Didn’t they squeeze a drive-thru into Link on the Loop?  Granted that’s a CVS, bit nicer than a fast food joint (and also not apartments), still seems like it could be done.

Though I’d agree it seems unlikely anyone would want a super busy Rally’s or Captain D’s under their building.

They could always incorporate it it into the garage like they did the garage on tucker. Point is. If it really is something that the developers wanted to accomplish they could do it. Make a play now. I just don’t see it becoming any easier to obtain down the line as more is built around them and the property value increases.


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sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Aug 16, 2021

_nomad_ wrote: ↑

Aug 16, 2021

It would be nice if there were a stair connecting Gratiot to Grand to cut a block off the walk from these Steelcote buildings to points north (mainly thinking metrolink and SLU). It might not seem like much, but if you're walking it everyday, shortcuts like that makes a place more livable and pedestrian-friendly in my opinion.

I think there is one.  Not quite at the corner of Grand and Gratiot, but fairly close:

From the north elevation, that stairway does not connect to Gratiot, at least not on the exterior, so it's probably just an emergency exit or key card garage access for residents, and not a public stairway.



What I cannot figure out is: why is there a railing along the whole width of that lower terrace at the bottom of the stairs?  Now maybe the garage extends under that terrace, but still...

Gotta have lots of parking near a Metrolink station, the most frequent bus line and loads of jobs within walking distance.

I said it a couple of days ago, but I'm willing to say it again: I'm really excited about this immediate area of St. Louis. 

Between the Armory, Steelcote Phase 4, any future Iron Hill site development, and the new SLU hospital building, commuters that take the Grand Ave viaduct will have plenty of projects to watch. Top Golf would also be visible from the viaduct. Not sure about the Foundry apartments/offices. 

My hope is that this momentum only accelerates and that the viaduct continues to become a short "scenic drive" for urban development fans.

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Aug 18, 2021

I said it a couple of days ago, but I'm willing to say it again: I'm really excited about this immediate area of St. Louis. 

Between the Armory, Steelcote Phase 4, any future Iron Hill site development, and the new SLU hospital building, commuters that take the Grand Ave viaduct will have plenty of projects to watch. Top Golf would also be visible from the viaduct. Not sure about the Foundry apartments/offices. 

My hope is that this momentum only accelerates and that the viaduct continues to become a short "scenic drive" for urban development fans.

Okay...if you define "urban development" as "any large, shiny, new construction project which happens to occur in an urban area".  Admittedly, this does seem to be the case for most freshly-hatched urban "fans".  And increasingly so, for some strange reason...

For old-school fans of sound urban design and planning, however, so far the drive through the Grand and Chouteau area seems to becoming something akin to a precautionary case study.

Planning Commission approved the rezoning request 7-1. It moves on to the Board of Aldermen (I think that's where it goes).

Jake Banton asked questions about the parking lot, parking, and blank wall on Grand. Pier Property Group's Michael Hamburg responded to those questions.

• On the issue of the small parking lot fronting Papin: Building, and retail space, cannot be moved or extended to Papin because the user for the retail space would back away and with the size of the building, losing the tenant would make it hard to subdivide the space. The small parking lot will be for curbside pickup, and quick stop-ins to the store and includes landscaping and numerous crosswalks for pedestrians. 
• On the issue of the blank wall on Grand: It's likely to be a spot for an artist to put a mural up and some storefront glass could be added.
• On the issue of the 250 parking spaces in the structured garage for 196 apartments: Parking is one of the most utilized things at other PPG properties including the Steelcote Lofts and Crossing. The extra parking spaces allows them to tweak the space in the event more loading dock space is needed for the retailer.
• The extension of Papin will be the first portion of a new intersection on Grand to coincide with whatever is built at Iron Hill.

Details such as who the tenant will be and so on were not disclosed because that deal is still being worked on, but it is getting close.

chriss752 wrote: ↑

Aug 19, 2021

• On the issue of the blank wall on Grand: It's likely to be a spot for an artist to put a mural up and some storefront glass could be added.

Sneak peek of the two huge Grand Avenue blank wall "mural" finalists:



Vote for your fav! 

Lol! But would a City Target even fit in that retail space?

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^ Love Target, so I'd be all for it

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I don't mind the blank wall on Grand so much considering it's to allow a stairway going connecting Grand to Gratiot. Pretty important connection IMO.

Also that curbside space is really making me think Target. It would be a perfect location for one.

I think having a Target there would only accelerate the development of the Steelcote/Iron Hill/Foundry/Armory areas, but it would benefit a pretty large area of the city beyond that, too. 

The entire Central Corridor would go to this Target over the one at Hampton/Chippewa. 

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Aug 20, 2021

I think having a Target there would only accelerate the development of the Steelcote/Iron Hill/Foundry/Armory areas, but it would benefit a pretty large area of the city beyond that, too. 

The entire Central Corridor would go to this Target over the one at Hampton/Chippewa. 

Agreed and would prolly pull some people from the one at the Brentwood Promenade.  Which would also put keep some city tax monies in the city.  

I would love it and it could be… but I don’t know if Gratiot and Theresa could handle the traffic a Target would generate. It looks like all cars would need to go Chouteau > Theresa > Gratiot?

Also, two loading docs with a very tight auto-turn analysis (see first floor plan shared by Chris)?

Also… if they know another development is coming across the street, why would they choose here? The retail space is behind the apartment when looking from Chouteau and below site line on Grand

Urbanitas are you hinting/teasing/speculate at what the new Iron Hill development might include?   That is how i take your post not so much on what it going to happen on the east side of Grand/Steelcote developments but what might happen on the West side of Grand.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Aug 20, 2021

I would love it and it could be… but I don’t know if Gratiot and Theresa could handle the traffic a Target would generate. It looks like all cars would need to go Chouteau > Theresa > Gratiot?

Also, two loading docs with a very tight auto-turn analysis (see first floor plan shared by Chris)?

Also… if they know another development is coming across the street, why would they choose here? The retail space is behind the apartment when looking from Chouteau and below site line on Grand

Seemed to me retail customers bringing cars would use Papin and park in the surface spots and access the store from there.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Aug 20, 2021

I would love it and it could be… but I don’t know if Gratiot and Theresa could handle the traffic a Target would generate. It looks like all cars would need to go Chouteau > Theresa > Gratiot?

Also, two loading docs with a very tight auto-turn analysis (see first floor plan shared by Chris)?

Also… if they know another development is coming across the street, why would they choose here? The retail space is behind the apartment when looking from Chouteau and below site line on Grand

Cars for the retail space would use the two surface lots because of the potential headache of getting customers to drive down Gratiot from either Spring or Theresa. It wouldn't be that much of a headache, but for some it would be.

The loading docks are in a strange location but I assume they have that worked out one way or another. This updated first floor plan was shared at the Planning Commission meeting the other night and shows the route trucks would take.

As for why a potential Target would choose Steelcote Phase 4 over whatever happens at Iron Hill, it sort of makes sense with the background. Steelcote Phase 4 could be a potential Midtown Target's 4th location. The space is large enough for them as proposed and a groundbreaking is fairly close. So if Target, or whoever, could just hop into a new project that has enough retail space and is ready to go, why would they wait? And I get that it's not ideal since the retail space sits slightly below grade from Grand, but signage and all of that would help people find it pretty easily.

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Aug 20, 2021

I think having a Target there would only accelerate the development of the Steelcote/Iron Hill/Foundry/Armory areas, but it would benefit a pretty large area of the city beyond that, too. 

The entire Central Corridor would go to this Target over the one at Hampton/Chippewa. 

Agree. I’d love to have another Target option besides the Hampton store. That one is overcrowded and understaffed which often means bare shelves and a dirty store.