There's something similar in the plans above, but man, it'd be neat to have a park like this:
Is there some sort of reason why we feel the need to even hang onto LKS?GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jun 25, 2021GRG has all of these lots included in their master plan from 2017. Not sure how much is still on the table but it's pretty ambitious.
What's the functional purpose of it? Turn it into bikes only. Especially if the dumbasses in traffic are just going to keep putting up barriers and closing access to it. Kill the damn thing.
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There was something like this in Hoboken, New Jersey that I thought was really neat.
It's called Pier-C Park
It's called Pier-C Park
After the Arch grounds were completed, it was there to feed the two parking garages, all of the parking lots on the levee itself, and the floating restaurants and tourist attractions. Last time I was down there though, there were no cars parked on the levee, but that is probably just a "temporary" thing for cruising and crime suppression.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jun 26, 2021Is there some sort of reason why we feel the need to even hang onto LKS?GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jun 25, 2021GRG has all of these lots included in their master plan from 2017. Not sure how much is still on the table but it's pretty ambitious.
What's the functional purpose of it? Turn it into bikes only. Especially if the dumbasses in traffic are just going to keep putting up barriers and closing access to it. Kill the damn thing.
I also recall seeing tour buses drop groups off at the base of the Arch steps, but that was a while ago. I assume they all drop off on Memorial now, post-expansion.
It's neat, but note the $400 million private donation. Plus, it's not like we have a shortage of riverfront here to justify it, when you could build an equivalent and much cheaper green space on dry land.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Jun 26, 2021There's something similar in the plans above, but man, it'd be neat to have a park like this:
An island built on piers wouldn't be feasible in the Mississippi River anyway, for multiple reasons. But a much simpler and cheaper floating platform using a few repurposed connected barges, to create sort of a boardwalk or pier-type feature, may be.
It would provide a more direct river experience that can move with the dramatically-changing river level and waterline location, at least during normal river levels. It would also allow for a more permanent infrastructure investment, i.e. something that won't be destroyed every few years when the river is at flood stage...
There was an island built on a pier in the Mississippi River while they were constructing the Eads Bridge. It may be cost prohibitive, but appears proven to be feasible.
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Right, the price was pretty high on that one, and I'm not saying that STL needs something like that or that it has to be built the exact same way, but that it would be cool to have a park similar to that.urbanitas wrote: ↑Jun 26, 2021It's neat, but note the $400 million private donation. Plus, it's not like we have a shortage of riverfront here to justify it, when you could build an equivalent and much cheaper green space on dry land.
An island built on piers wouldn't be feasible in the Mississippi River anyway, for multiple reasons. But a much simpler and cheaper floating platform using a few repurposed connected barges, to create sort of a boardwalk or pier-type feature, may be.
It would provide a more direct river experience that can move with the dramatically-changing river level and waterline location, at least during normal river levels. It would also allow for a more permanent infrastructure investment, i.e. something that won't be destroyed every few years when the river is at flood stage...
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They really need to chose one way or another. I'm not against reopening the strip, it is a useful street for the reasons above. Perhaps this would be a good candidate for some speed bumps. It's not a commuter corridor so I don't see a reason to cater the street to driving over 15mph.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jun 26, 2021Is there some sort of reason why we feel the need to even hang onto LKS?GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jun 25, 2021GRG has all of these lots included in their master plan from 2017. Not sure how much is still on the table but it's pretty ambitious.
What's the functional purpose of it? Turn it into bikes only. Especially if the dumbasses in traffic are just going to keep putting up barriers and closing access to it. Kill the damn thing.
If it's "cost-prohibitive", then it's not feasible. I think you meant that it appears proven possible, i.e. capable of being designed and built. "Feasibility" encompasses additional considerations, including your cost caveat.wabash wrote: ↑Jun 27, 2021There was an island built on a pier in the Mississippi River while they were constructing the Eads Bridge. It may be cost prohibitive, but appears proven to be feasible.urbanitas wrote: ↑Jun 26, 2021An island built on piers wouldn't be feasible in the Mississippi River anyway, for multiple reasons.
Anyway - not that there is any similarity in the two construction methods, but - sure, it's possible. 15 workers also died digging sediment from the bottom of the Mississippi to build those piers, and I don't think a similar technique under equivalent conditions has been attempted since.
Besides, the stone piers for Eads Bridge are two or three orders of magnitude larger in diameter than the piers on the "Little Island". If you were going to construct a foundation that massive along the waterline, then instead of an "island" on piers, why not just build a peninsula that juts out into the river with retaining walls? Fill it with rock, and build your park on top of that...
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Plus the Mississippi River is a major shipping channel now, with barge traffic almost making it impossible for there to be a major entertainment pier. If there was some private benefactor who is willing to spend $400M on a project like this (and there's not)... well, the city and region could get a LOT more bang for the buck putting those resources elsewhere.
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^I don't think an entertainment pier would necessarily need to block the shipping channel. The riverfront near the arch used to be, in essence, an entertainment pier. There were several restaurants, a theatre, helicopter and boat rides, and a historic boat tour. At its peak there were perhaps eight or more barges and boats tied up there. Didn't interfere with shipping one iota since it was all by definition outside the channel at an anchorage. There's really no way you can use that anchorage for anything other than entertainment now, so you might as well embrace it. That was and should be again our version of Navy Pier. Given the vagaries of the river you have to put it on things that float and can move some, but . . . we've done it before. We can do it again.
I think the repurposed barges in the renderings are more than fine. They could shift with flood waters, they wouldn’t block the shipping channel, they could be moved, etc.
There was a barge based floating casino down there for decades. A floating barge park seems easy enough. Just gotta find someone to pay for it…
There was a barge based floating casino down there for decades. A floating barge park seems easy enough. Just gotta find someone to pay for it…
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^Encouraging barge based entertainment businesses seems like a no brainer to me. No, it's not swimming pools and parks. But it could potentially be a destination. We could really use a river museum too. We need to find a way to get some historic boats back down on the riverfront and open for tourists.
If I had a spare 50 million or so, I'd build a re-creation of the Admiral, complete with big-band music and everything.
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I don't know that we need a barge park, but a barge beer garden sure would be a nice spot to enjoy a beverage.
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There are currently boat / helicopter tours at the arch grounds riverfront, and I recently discovered the boat tour barge has a small cafe/beer patio restaurant called the Paddlewheel Cafe: https://www.gatewayarch.com/experience/ ... de-events/
It's fairly bare bones but I'd love to see a full fledged barge restaurant down there, a Landry's Seafood or maybe a local place like Urban Chestnut, or similar would be awesome. Or even better bring back a riverboat recreation like The Admiral as a eatery and really sell the history aspect.
Empress Lily Crab House in Disney.
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Lit up at night
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It's fairly bare bones but I'd love to see a full fledged barge restaurant down there, a Landry's Seafood or maybe a local place like Urban Chestnut, or similar would be awesome. Or even better bring back a riverboat recreation like The Admiral as a eatery and really sell the history aspect.
Empress Lily Crab House in Disney.
Lit up at night
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I'd argue that more unique experiences isn't what St. Louis needs - it has plenty of those already for tourists. What the city needs is to focus on crime reduction so that people outside the region don't associate it with being dangerous. That would have a much larger impact on St. Louis becoming a "destination city" over adding another silver bullet entertainment concept.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2021What would make St Louis more of a destination city like say New Orleans or Nashville? What unique experiences?
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Fully agreed. There are already tons of touristic attractions. We need to get people to move to the city so as to make it denser and more interesting to walk around, not just driving to a parking lot Downtown, walking around the Arch and City Museum and then driving back to your Holiday Inn in Chesterfield.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2021I'd argue that more unique experiences isn't what St. Louis needs - it has plenty of those already for tourists. What the city needs is to focus on crime reduction so that people outside the region don't associate it with being dangerous. That would have a much larger impact on St. Louis becoming a "destination city" over adding another silver bullet entertainment concept.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2021What would make St Louis more of a destination city like say New Orleans or Nashville? What unique experiences?
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I'm on board with this, it's always fun to talk about new entertainment options / destinations, but STL already outclasses just about any city of comparable size in the Midwest in it's offerings of entertainment, food, museums, festivals, city parks, sports (Kroenke Sucks), and history.Laife Fulk wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2021I'd argue that more unique experiences isn't what St. Louis needs - it has plenty of those already for tourists. What the city needs is to focus on crime reduction so that people outside the region don't associate it with being dangerous. That would have a much larger impact on St. Louis becoming a "destination city" over adding another silver bullet entertainment concept.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2021What would make St Louis more of a destination city like say New Orleans or Nashville? What unique experiences?
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The region's overall numbers will continue to be stagnate, and much of the growth seen in some areas are often only at the expense of other local areas on the downturn. I think some of it is a perception issue, but one way or another the numbers need to go down before people nationally or businesses looking to start/relocate will consider STL a hot destination.
City/County merger would be a huge step and a great way forward, but I'm not sure we'll ever see it actually happen in a meaningful way.
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If I were picking my tourist attractions... I would turn Eads bridge into a full/partial pedestrian bridge (or maybe close down two lanes, no 18-wheelers) and turn it into a really nice outdoor museum, maybe keep a lane open for tourist bus, bikes, etc. Its such an icon it feels weird being a low trafficked bridge.
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A few years ago, they would periodically close the Eads for pedestrian use, bringing in food vendors and setting up tables so people could dine on the bridge (this was pre-food trucks). I don't know why they stopped doing that - it seemed like a good idea.pattimagee wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2021If I were picking my tourist attractions... I would turn Eads bridge into a full/partial pedestrian bridge (or maybe close down two lanes, no 18-wheelers) and turn it into a really nice outdoor museum, maybe keep a lane open for tourist bus, bikes, etc. Its such an icon it feels weird being a low trafficked bridge.
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I would love to see the East Riverfront developed into a moderately dense TOD village (with some of the best views of downtown in the region)
Then turn the Eads Bridge into a linear park with shade trees connecting the East Side to downtown and the Landing. It would actually give people a reason to walk across the bridge.
Right now pedestrians have nowhere to go, and are walking on a narrow sidewalk covered in broken glass next to traffic traveling 60+ mph. The bridge is already mostly redundant and would probably last longer without auto traffic, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep closing it to cars eventually.
Then turn the Eads Bridge into a linear park with shade trees connecting the East Side to downtown and the Landing. It would actually give people a reason to walk across the bridge.
Right now pedestrians have nowhere to go, and are walking on a narrow sidewalk covered in broken glass next to traffic traveling 60+ mph. The bridge is already mostly redundant and would probably last longer without auto traffic, so I wouldn’t lose too much sleep closing it to cars eventually.
I don’t think the right people will ever be convinced to remove all the traffic lanes on the Eads. Not even sure I would support it. I’ve used it close to 10 times in the last month.
But putting a barrier wall down the center and closing down two lanes and narrowing the remaining two to 10 feet in width to slow traffic would be ideal. Use the remaining space for a large promenade across the river and into East St. Louis.
I don’t think car traffic has anything to do with the bridge’s longevity…the car deck is only from 2003.
But putting a barrier wall down the center and closing down two lanes and narrowing the remaining two to 10 feet in width to slow traffic would be ideal. Use the remaining space for a large promenade across the river and into East St. Louis.
I don’t think car traffic has anything to do with the bridge’s longevity…the car deck is only from 2003.
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Yeah - and you could just slowly transition to test the popularity of giving more of that space to pedestrians. Its currently 2 pedestrian sidewalks and 4-car lanes. Just taking those 2 lanes on the south side would be enough to make a huge pedestrian space - its so long.
And I would bet making it look like a mock lesser high-line it would increase car traffic on it, lol.
And I would bet making it look like a mock lesser high-line it would increase car traffic on it, lol.