urbanSTL

^ The amount of damage the legislature has done to the quality of life and economic development in Missouri is astounding. I'm really concerned for the future of the state. Definitely a race to the bottom and there seems to be little people in St. Louis can do about it. It's like Missouri is getting the worst combination of backwards economic and social legislation in the country. If they're going to have these wacked out culture war laws atleast be good at economic development. Instead it seems Missouri has all the social stigma of the Deep South with the economic outlook of the Rust Belt.

^This. The MoLeg isn't even good at being republicans. Despite terrible services, our taxes remain middle of the pack. They're truly awful

BellaVilla wrote:^This. The MoLeg isn't even good at being republicans. Despite terrible services, our taxes remain middle of the pack. They're truly awful

I think part of the reason why is that there literally is no ideology.

They're consumed with culture war bullsh*t, elected on culture War bullsh*t, and end up dying on the hill of culture war bullsh*t.

The legislators are way more concerned with bullying trans kids than any sort of broader economic or civic set of policies.

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BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

^This. The MoLeg isn't even good at being republicans. Despite terrible services, our taxes remain middle of the pack. They're truly awful

You're right that MO's individual income taxes are middling, but the corporate tax rate is 75% of what citizens pay. Depending on how you look at it, MO has the second (after NC) or fourth (after NC, SD and WY) lowest corporate tax rate in the country.  What's the point of having a low corporate tax rate if your other policies deter and disoblige your largest corporations? That ends up being corporate welfare without the corporations.

Since the discussion is focused on Medicaid expansion, is that the assumed main reason (besides incentives from NC) that Centene is likely/possibility making this move?

wabash wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

^This. The MoLeg isn't even good at being republicans. Despite terrible services, our taxes remain middle of the pack. They're truly awful

You're right that MO's individual income taxes are middling, but the corporate tax rate is 75% of what citizens pay. Depending on how you look at it, MO has the second (after NC) or fourth (after NC, SD and WY) lowest corporate tax rate in the country.  What's the point of having a low corporate tax rate if your other policies deter and disoblige your largest corporations? That ends up being corporate welfare without the corporations.

I say this all the time - you have to choose - red state model with no income taxes or blue state model with higher taxes publicly funded services like ACA expanded medicaid. Instead, Missouri gets the worst of both worlds. 

If they just increased gas, alcohol and cigarrette taxes you could really decrease the income taxes. It's really frustrating and sad to see. 

^ Agree with comments on what path MO has taken but don't necessarily see economic success as a red state or blue state model.  I see income & corporate taxes  and services more or less fall on that idealogy.    However, economic success is more an investment model where as the states who find ways to make such investments are much more likely to succeed.    Even more so if those investments are in transportation, education and health.

NC is a good example, or to the north in MN/Twin Cities, or say purple states such VA & CO.     NC inclined to be red state in terms of low income & corporate taxes, less services and regulations.  However, NC if not mistaken has embraced medicare/medicaid expansion as well as embraced in gas and cigarette tax increases in recent years to support infrastructure, health and education investment.   The same for MN, they have been more inclined to to blue state in terms of higher income & corporate, more services and regulations.  But MN has made heavy investments as well.  
 
Whereas MO as a state has done the opposite and willfully chosen to invest in nothing model and the only reason why it has a half decent economy is two metro areas with some pretty decent private institutions and corporate anchors (maybe Centene is not one of them but still got a pretty strong list)

It's not like the North Carolina legislature is known as s bastion of progressive politics.

dredger wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

^ Agree with comments on what path MO has taken but don't necessarily see economic success as a red state or blue state model.  I see income & corporate taxes  and services more or less fall on that idealogy.    However, economic success is more an investment model where as the states who find ways to make such investments are much more likely to succeed.    Even more so if those investments are in transportation, education and health.

NC is a good example, or to the north in MN/Twin Cities, or say purple states such VA & CO.     NC inclined to be red state in terms of low income & corporate taxes, less services and regulations.  However, NC if not mistaken has embraced medicare/medicaid expansion as well as embraced in gas and cigarette tax increases in recent years to support infrastructure, health and education investment.   The same for MN, they have been more inclined to to blue state in terms of higher income & corporate, more services and regulations.  But MN has made heavy investments as well.  
 
Whereas MO as a state has done the opposite and willfully chosen to invest in nothing model and the only reason why it has a half decent economy is two metro areas with some pretty decent private institutions and corporate anchors (maybe Centene is not one of them but still got a pretty strong list)

Yes, I would define Missouri as being economically libertarian at this point. While socially it is definitely being dominated by the evangelical right. That has to be one of the worst recipes ever. So basically you don't want to invest in infrastructure, education, or healthcare, but simultaneously promote a culture of violence, religious fundamentalism, and racism. Basically, Missouri is creating the American equivalent of an ISIS state.

framer wrote: ↑

Apr 22, 2021

It's not like the North Carolina legislature is known as s bastion of progressive politics.

Nor is Centene's CEO known for being particularly reticent in making their concerns/desires/demands public.

^I doubt even a tenth of Republican voters would think St. Louis losing a company in any way hurts the state. Most of the outstate voters will probably take it as a "mission accomplished" moment. A few suburban swing  voters will notice, but probably not enough to make a difference.

Welp

One year before a senate race seems like a bad time to piss off a wealthy politically informed CEO. I hope he goes out swinging. Drop names. Make a huge ad buy.

There is no path to the 21st century in Missouri.


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Centene is using the State's failure to implement Medicaid Expansion as a reason to leave St. Louis, which I find laughable. If they really cared about that issue, they'd be moving to Sacramento over North Carolina. North Carolina hasn't implemented anything regarding Medicaid Expansion despite a push by their Governor. North Carolina offered Centene up to $900 Million for them to set up a base there. $900 Million in free money sent their way to bring jobs to the Charlotte area. And considering Centene's past moves here, the threats coming out of Niedorff's mouth are empty to me. They knew they were going to leave for months, even years now. Their actions show it...

1. Cancellation of additional phases of the Centene Clayton campus. This was clear the moment when the auditorium hole started filling in and the condo/apartment building on Carondelet was trashed.
2. The announcement of the $1 Billion Charlotte Campus and praise by Corporate Executives as a result of that.
3. The rumor posted on this thread about a hiring freeze about certain positions in Clayton/St.Louis.
4. Niedorff previously complained about the lack of Regional Coordination and Crime and how it bothers their recruiting of new talent. 

I'm not writing-off the failure to expand Medicaid as a reason for them to leave, but the fact they'll leave has been pretty clear for a while now. They'll probably keep offices here and what not, but their C-Suite and upper-tier employees and executives would move to North Carolina or Sacramento, resulting in the HQ being lost. If the state comes calling, and incentives are waved as a bribe to stay, Centene would probably accept if they were at the level of North Carolina. Centene could make a push for Medicaid expansion here again by the legislature, but if expansion failure is why they want to leave, then why continue building their Charlotte campus?

So yes, let's blame outstate Republicans for causing just another issue that pisses Centene off when in fact it's the St. Louis Region and the bribes sent out by the State of North Carolina and Charlotte that led to Centene's departure here. The failure to expand Medicaid is just the straw that broke the horse's back. As long as we can preserve the hundreds, if not thousands of standard office jobs here in St. Louis, I'm fine with losing the Executives to North Carolina. We can still be a major job center for them, and most likely will be, because I doubt they'd fire their employees or force them to move out of St. Louis.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brie ... ctive-map/

Centene Ceo told a national healthcare publication that Missouri is an embarrassment and anti democratic and that the governor will probably call him once he hears that Centene is leaving Missouri

Also, just last week the governor of Tennessee signed into law another one of those infamous "Bathroom Bills", yet I bet you won't see any slow-down in Nashville's growth. Actually, aren't most of the high-growth Southern states largely controlled by Republicans?  

Fine, I admit the mistake of $900 Million for $450 Million. I read a BizJournal story wrong and places the $900 million offer for Centene from South Carolina and York County. I thought that was from North Carolina. Still though, $450 Million is a ton of free money to be throwing around.

I'm not trying to wave it away because I know it's a big deal, just I don't see the St. Louis Region and State making an adequate pitch at this point to keep Centene from leaving. If they do, I'll be shocked. Plus it's better to be left with scraps than absolutely nothing. Retaining jobs is a far better outcome than losing them all. Would it be bad to lose a Fortune 50 company? Sure. But losing the thousands of jobs connected to that company here would be far worse for our image, local economy, Clayton office market, and more. It would be a domino effect in a way.

But I still can't get over how people are outraged over their departure now when it was known for a while that it was coming. The St. Louis Region, and even the State, were told before by Neidorff about the crime issue and lack of regional coordination. That was a not so subtle hint to get our act together. It seems we ignored that completely, so when Medicaid Expansion came up and failed at the Legislative level, the talks about leaving St. Louis again would start back up, just more serious. We were told before to get out act together and we ignored it. Actions have consequences.

So in this case, I do blame the State Government, in particular the Party I'm registered with, the Republicans, but I also blame the St. Louis Region for failing to at least make an attempt to address the previous issues highlighted by Neidorff. We can salvage this but it will be hard. I'm just waiting for the official-official departure announcement at this point.

framer wrote: ↑

May 19, 2021

Also, just last week the governor of Tennessee signed into law another one of those infamous "Bathroom Bills", yet I bet you won't see any slow-down in Nashville's growth. Actually, aren't most of the high-growth Southern states largely controlled by Republicans?  

That depends, the growth is in blue cities in red states.

Finally, Nierdorff speaks! His silence has been deafening. At this point, my concern is that Centene won't just move their HQ but will gut their ops in StL just to make a point.