Agreed. And a terminus stop at Fine Arts Drive & Government Drive serving the Zoo would be about a 4 min walk to the Art Museum.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 30, 2021I'd do Visitor's Center, Muny, Boat House/World's Fair Pavillion, and the Zoo. Avoid the hill
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^I want it to go to all of those things and then head into the Central West End.
Putting the Loop on one side of a trolley that connects to the zoo, art museum, etc., and then to the Central West End on the other end, seems like a way to make this work.
It won't ever happen, but it would be sweet if it could enter the CWE at Pine, take Euclid north, and then take Delmar west back to the existing tracks.
You would add the Euclid corridor, Delmar Divine, the Maker District, and it would run through several rebounding north city neighborhoods. If the trolley were free, I bet you'd see residents in Academy or Lewis Place taking it to work in either of the two entertainment districts or somewhere in the park.
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Putting the Loop on one side of a trolley that connects to the zoo, art museum, etc., and then to the Central West End on the other end, seems like a way to make this work.
It won't ever happen, but it would be sweet if it could enter the CWE at Pine, take Euclid north, and then take Delmar west back to the existing tracks.
You would add the Euclid corridor, Delmar Divine, the Maker District, and it would run through several rebounding north city neighborhoods. If the trolley were free, I bet you'd see residents in Academy or Lewis Place taking it to work in either of the two entertainment districts or somewhere in the park.
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Stltoday - Loop Trolley seeking $1.26 million more in federal money to help restart
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 7.amp.html
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 7.amp.html
Really would be better if they waited to open until spring/summer 2022
Is there any truth to the rumor that the recent Federal Stimulus Package provides "millions" of dollars for the Loop Trolley?
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Waiting til the projects on DeBaliviere finish is their best shot.ldai_phs wrote:Really would be better if they waited to open until spring/summer 2022
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No. When it was announced STL was getting a bunch of money I heard/saw a bunch of dumb comments about the Loop Trolley. The region could decide to use some of that money for it if they so choose...but there aren’t any specific earmarks in the bill for certain projects.
Prior to the pandemic relief bill, EWG was exploring using some left over federal grant money to provide some funding for the Trolley...I doubt any decisions will be made until after EWG decides on that.
Although...transit agencies are due their own funds from this bill. Though they were the first time too and I don’t recall the LT getting any money then.
But this bill is more generous...does the trolley technically qualify as transit? I wouldn’t consider it as such...but it may. Though it was shut down before the pandemic...so it’s not like they could make the argument the pandemic caused them their problems.
The LT is plenty popular for clickbait...you’d think we’d have heard by now if they were getting something.
But this bill is more generous...does the trolley technically qualify as transit? I wouldn’t consider it as such...but it may. Though it was shut down before the pandemic...so it’s not like they could make the argument the pandemic caused them their problems.
The LT is plenty popular for clickbait...you’d think we’d have heard by now if they were getting something.
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Just reading the article that Quicken Mortgage is rebranding as part of Rocket Mortgage which is another division of Quicken. The piece noted:
"Quicken Loans bought the naming rights for the streetcar line that runs along Woodward Avenue in a $5 million, 10-year deal in 2016. The QLine, which has been idle since March 2020 amid the coronavirus pandemic, is expected to restart operations this summer."
Can our trolley sell naming rights? How about to Enterprise to become the E-line.
"Quicken Loans bought the naming rights for the streetcar line that runs along Woodward Avenue in a $5 million, 10-year deal in 2016. The QLine, which has been idle since March 2020 amid the coronavirus pandemic, is expected to restart operations this summer."
Can our trolley sell naming rights? How about to Enterprise to become the E-line.
Or to Ameren to become the eLine?gary kreie wrote: ↑May 12, 2021Just reading the article that Quicken Mortgage is rebranding as part of Rocket Mortgage which is another division of Quicken. The piece noted:
"Quicken Loans bought the naming rights for the streetcar line that runs along Woodward Avenue in a $5 million, 10-year deal in 2016. The QLine, which has been idle since March 2020 amid the coronavirus pandemic, is expected to restart operations this summer."
Can our trolley sell naming rights? How about to Enterprise to become the E-line.
-RBB
Not naming rights exactly, but clearly signage rights was part of Clayco's deal that helped get the trolley over the hump to get up and running. Hence "Clayco" being on the bumpers of the trolleys.gary kreie wrote: ↑May 12, 2021Can our trolley sell naming rights? How about to Enterprise to become the E-line.
Along with Detroit's QLine are the Cincinnati Bell Connector (named for/by the telephone company) and Tampa's TECO Line Streetcar (named for/by the electric company).
OOOPs, FYI, the Trolley is DEAD!! and the tracks embedded in the street cause alot of confusion..and we need a real TRAM..or need to rip the tracks out and widen the street..as the huge space alotted for fun and happy trolley waiters, and benches, should return back to Debaliviere.
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I’m not sure the trolley is dead. Maxine Clark mentioned in her interview that it is going to be a part of the future of the area, and I think the trolley co has made it clear they plan to bring it back (I assume after these construction projects wrap up on DeBalivieredamon9863 wrote:OOOPs, FYI, the Trolley is DEAD!! and the tracks embedded in the street cause alot of confusion..and we need a real TRAM..or need to rip the tracks out and widen the street..as the huge space alotted for fun and happy trolley waiters, and benches, should return back to Debaliviere.
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A modern tram would be good. Wish there was a way to run a tram that connects WashU with the loop and maybe Richmond heights (down big bend)
^ Wash U and the Loop (and by the Blue Line extension Richmond Heights) are already connected by a real light rail system.
My thought but not sure how it would work with current loop tracks and wire in place but a modern low floor streetcar starting essentially from Expo for short trip north, right and head east on Delmar Ave and finally making a right turn at Euclid and head back south to end at Wash U Med/Barnes Jewish on first phase. The idea is modern fixed transit to connect Delmar Divide to promote further development with a job center as well as offering connections to metrolink. In other words, another way to promote more development more so along and to north of Delmar.
But as Sc4mayor notes, Expo & loop is already well connected to transit so maybe a new modern street car would start north of Delmar and then head east and then south. Phase II would be connecting Wash Med/Barnes Jewish with FPSE/maybe botanical garden. Continue south on Euclid and cross I64 with streetcar/non auto bridge into FPSE make another easterly turn followed by a south turn and snake over the railroad track into the botanical garden area.
My thoughts are along the lines of the city coming with some sort of north south expanded transit vision whether it be streetcar and or All Electric BRT for corridors like Grand or Jeff Ave or N-S downtown streetcar instead of waiting on the Billion dollar City/County Light Rail plan to happen But something
But as Sc4mayor notes, Expo & loop is already well connected to transit so maybe a new modern street car would start north of Delmar and then head east and then south. Phase II would be connecting Wash Med/Barnes Jewish with FPSE/maybe botanical garden. Continue south on Euclid and cross I64 with streetcar/non auto bridge into FPSE make another easterly turn followed by a south turn and snake over the railroad track into the botanical garden area.
My thoughts are along the lines of the city coming with some sort of north south expanded transit vision whether it be streetcar and or All Electric BRT for corridors like Grand or Jeff Ave or N-S downtown streetcar instead of waiting on the Billion dollar City/County Light Rail plan to happen But something
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The St. Louis region's planning organization will recommend that its members OK $1.26 million in federal funding for the deeply troubled Loop Trolley project, its leader said Wednesday.
The 2.2-mile streetcar line, shut down since December 2019, is requesting $1.26 million from the Federal Highway Administration's (FHA) Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality Improvement Program (CMAQ), to fund 70% of its operations — with cars giving free rides four days a week — for two years. A taxing district that built the trolley and charges a 1% sales tax in the Delmar Loop would kick in $540,000 in matching funds.
Voting members of East-West Gateway Council of Governments, the planning organization, will decide Oct. 27 whether to approve the trolley funding.
But Jim Wild, East-West Gateway's executive director, said he'd recommend that its 24 voting members do so.
That's because the FHA and Federal Transit Administration have both determined that the trolley is an allowed use of CMAQ funds, Wild said.
And East-West Gateway has enough CMAQ money available — $23.6 million — to fund all 15 projects, including the trolley, that are asking for money, he said.
Further, the trolley scored better than two of the projects when possible greenhouse gas reductions were measured against cost, East-West Gateway documents show. The Brickline Greenway, a Great Rivers Greenway project requesting $4 million to help build a path from Sarah Street to Grand Avenue, scored worse. As did a turn lane addition planned for Pacific. It's asking for $892,000.
The board will be asked to approve the 15 projects at once, but a member could ask to take any project off the list, Wild said. "For political reasons they could do that, but now that we have the funding to fund all of those, I wouldn't leave money on the table," he said, adding such a move could jeopardize the region losing that funding.
The trolley is controversial, though, with the new St. Louis mayor, Tishaura Jones, previously speaking out against the funding request. She's an East-West Gateway voter.
An anonymous comment submitted to East-West Gateway, from a resident who lives in the area, says "too much has been spent (on the trolley) with great consequence to the area."
"It has been nothing short of disastrous to the community," the comment, included in East-West Gateway documents, said. "As much as I admire what (Blueberry Hill owner) Joe Edwards has done to rebuild the Loop, this one is not in the best interest of the area. Please invest in the MetroLink where the underserved community is helped as well as helping your critical mission."
But John Meyer, president of the nonprofit that operated the trolley, The Loop Trolley Co., told East-West Gateway that a functional trolley, which connects "racially and socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods to the greatest public park in our nation," will reduce traffic congestion and pollution.
"Failure is not acceptable," he wrote in his own comment. "Defaulting on the Federal Transit Administration grant that paid half of the price tag for the trolley, streetscape improvements, two bridges and roundabout at University City Hall would irreparably damage the reputation of St. Louis and would impair the region's ability to garner future discretionary transit funding."
The trolley, which connects the Loop with the Missouri History Museum, closed in December 2019 after facing low ridership and difficulties putting into operation the number of streetcars initially planned. A plan for Bi-State Development to fund the project failed to advance in January 2020.
In its application for the CMAQ funds, submitted earlier this year, the trolley taxing district, called the Loop Trolley Transportation Development District, claimed that after the two years, sales tax revenues will have rebounded to pre-pandemic levels of about $860,000 a year, "providing sufficient revenue source to perform such transit service in 2024 and forward without additional CMAQ funding."
The sales tax was expected to generate $1 million last year, "which would have largely covered Loop Trolley operations and maintenance," the district said. But from April 2020 to December 2020, revenue was down 53%, it said, "and, as a result, Loop Trolley passenger operations were suspended and staff levels reduced to the minimum necessary to ensure critical day-to-day duties and system State of Good Repair activities continued."
If the system gets CMAQ money, employment would increase to 12 positions, up from the current three, it said.
The trolley, which had its opening repeatedly delayed, cost about $52 million to construct, with $34 million coming from the federal government. Its operations were originally designed to rely, in part, on passenger fares
The 2.2-mile streetcar line, shut down since December 2019, is requesting $1.26 million from the Federal Highway Administration's (FHA) Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality Improvement Program (CMAQ), to fund 70% of its operations — with cars giving free rides four days a week — for two years. A taxing district that built the trolley and charges a 1% sales tax in the Delmar Loop would kick in $540,000 in matching funds.
Voting members of East-West Gateway Council of Governments, the planning organization, will decide Oct. 27 whether to approve the trolley funding.
But Jim Wild, East-West Gateway's executive director, said he'd recommend that its 24 voting members do so.
That's because the FHA and Federal Transit Administration have both determined that the trolley is an allowed use of CMAQ funds, Wild said.
And East-West Gateway has enough CMAQ money available — $23.6 million — to fund all 15 projects, including the trolley, that are asking for money, he said.
Further, the trolley scored better than two of the projects when possible greenhouse gas reductions were measured against cost, East-West Gateway documents show. The Brickline Greenway, a Great Rivers Greenway project requesting $4 million to help build a path from Sarah Street to Grand Avenue, scored worse. As did a turn lane addition planned for Pacific. It's asking for $892,000.
The board will be asked to approve the 15 projects at once, but a member could ask to take any project off the list, Wild said. "For political reasons they could do that, but now that we have the funding to fund all of those, I wouldn't leave money on the table," he said, adding such a move could jeopardize the region losing that funding.
The trolley is controversial, though, with the new St. Louis mayor, Tishaura Jones, previously speaking out against the funding request. She's an East-West Gateway voter.
An anonymous comment submitted to East-West Gateway, from a resident who lives in the area, says "too much has been spent (on the trolley) with great consequence to the area."
"It has been nothing short of disastrous to the community," the comment, included in East-West Gateway documents, said. "As much as I admire what (Blueberry Hill owner) Joe Edwards has done to rebuild the Loop, this one is not in the best interest of the area. Please invest in the MetroLink where the underserved community is helped as well as helping your critical mission."
But John Meyer, president of the nonprofit that operated the trolley, The Loop Trolley Co., told East-West Gateway that a functional trolley, which connects "racially and socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods to the greatest public park in our nation," will reduce traffic congestion and pollution.
"Failure is not acceptable," he wrote in his own comment. "Defaulting on the Federal Transit Administration grant that paid half of the price tag for the trolley, streetscape improvements, two bridges and roundabout at University City Hall would irreparably damage the reputation of St. Louis and would impair the region's ability to garner future discretionary transit funding."
The trolley, which connects the Loop with the Missouri History Museum, closed in December 2019 after facing low ridership and difficulties putting into operation the number of streetcars initially planned. A plan for Bi-State Development to fund the project failed to advance in January 2020.
In its application for the CMAQ funds, submitted earlier this year, the trolley taxing district, called the Loop Trolley Transportation Development District, claimed that after the two years, sales tax revenues will have rebounded to pre-pandemic levels of about $860,000 a year, "providing sufficient revenue source to perform such transit service in 2024 and forward without additional CMAQ funding."
The sales tax was expected to generate $1 million last year, "which would have largely covered Loop Trolley operations and maintenance," the district said. But from April 2020 to December 2020, revenue was down 53%, it said, "and, as a result, Loop Trolley passenger operations were suspended and staff levels reduced to the minimum necessary to ensure critical day-to-day duties and system State of Good Repair activities continued."
If the system gets CMAQ money, employment would increase to 12 positions, up from the current three, it said.
The trolley, which had its opening repeatedly delayed, cost about $52 million to construct, with $34 million coming from the federal government. Its operations were originally designed to rely, in part, on passenger fares
I hope this can be successful. Right now, it's a very expensive joke to many in the community, but it's also an asset that, of leveraged correctly, can be extremely beneficial. If this $1.26 Million can help get the thing up and going again, great. But I still think this needs to be free, or very cheap to ride, to be a success/option for visitors to the Loop to consider.
I also think that Bi-State should still take over it and integrate it into the greater Metro network.
I also think that Bi-State should still take over it and integrate it into the greater Metro network.
I 100% agree with you! I’ll say it should be free!!chriss752 wrote:I hope this can be successful. Right now, it's a very expensive joke to many in the community, but it's also an asset that, of leveraged correctly, can be extremely beneficial. If this $1.26 Million can help get the thing up and going again, great. But I still think this needs to be free, or very cheap to ride, to be a success/option for visitors to the Loop to consider.
I also think that Bi-State should still take over it and integrate it into the greater Metro network.
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I think a lot more people would ride the trolley if it were free.
I hope it comes back and has some staying power this time.
I hope it comes back and has some staying power this time.
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The Mayor or County executive or any other EWG board member can make a motion to remove this project at the Oct 27th board meeting. I’d be surprised if it was board members outside the county/city since the project isn’t in their area and they don’t want to set a precedent objecting to projects that aren’t theirs
(Lewis Reed could object too, and there is a city resident on the board too, a county resident and a few small muni mayors from the county)
(Lewis Reed could object too, and there is a city resident on the board too, a county resident and a few small muni mayors from the county)
Did ya’ll miss the part of the article that said rides would be free for four days a week for two years?