urbanSTL

i wonder what Ring does with all that data they collect... i'm all for more cameras in whatever form. just want to point out that the integration of thousands of independent cameras now being enthusiastically discussed in this thread is far more complex than the aerial surveillance that was proposed and no less invasive or free from abuse potential.

Meanwhile, the County has flooded the Delmar stop with around ten police vehicles and their operators and they're all lollygagging around there.

Because obviously it was the Delmar stop itself who shot the security guard. It was the place that did it, you see. There's no way this could possibly happen at Wellston, or Rock Road, or UMSL, et cetera. A ludicrous show of force in the place it happened after the fact is the obvious way to keep it from happening again.

Clayton has a citizen and business camera registry. I suggest copying the link below and sending it to your alderperson.


Community Camera Program


Do you currently utilize private video surveillance at your home or business? If you do, we'd like to hear from you.

Video surveillance is one of the best methods for apprehending criminals and convicting suspects who are caught in the act of committing a crime. Installing video surveillance is a great example of community-police partnerships and is something the Clayton Police Department values highly.

How Does it Work?
The Community Camera Program allows residents and business owners to register locations and capabilities of their security camera systems with the Clayton Police Department. Using this information, when a crime occurs, the Clayton Police Department will know the locations of nearby video cameras and be able to collect video evidence and follow up on leads.

What are the Benefits of Registering your Camera?
Because they are caught in the act of committing the crime, video surveillance is one of the best methods to catch suspects and convict them. As crimes occur nearby, many residents and business owners are unaware that their camera systems may have captured information that could help solve a crime. Likewise, police are not always aware of who may have potentially vital video evidence.

By registering your camera, officers can quickly identify nearby cameras that may have captured criminal activity. After registering your camera, you will only be contacted by the Clayton Police Department if there is a criminal incident in the vicinity of your security camera and police personnel believe viewing your video footage will assist in the investigation.

Registration
If you would like to register your security camera system and allow officers to contact you should a crime occur in or near where your cameras are installed, please fill out the online form below.

https://www.claytonmo.gov/government/po ... ra-program

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

i wonder what Ring does with all that data they collect... i'm all for more cameras in whatever form. just want to point out that the integration of thousands of independent cameras now being enthusiastically discussed in this thread is far more complex than the aerial surveillance that was proposed and no less invasive or free from abuse potential.

This was something we gave some consideration to, and decided that the benefits greatly outweigh the costs. They state they do nothing with the data, we all obviously know that this is not true given the times we live in. But, really, in our case we have two ring devices: a doorbell, with a camera that faces the sidewalk and the walkway to our door, and a floodcam that faces my backalley.  Privacy-wise it is no different than having a neighbor who sits on the sidewalk and on the back alley 24/7.
What's the worst they can do with hours of footage of possums, cats, and neighbor cars going through the alley? Are they going to study my and my wife's movements and try to rob my house? Besides, they seem to be quite resistant (way more than I expected) to share data with law enforcement: they publish every quarter or so a report with the # of subpoenas etc they received for footage, and whether they complied with them or not.  See: https://blog.ring.com/2020/03/27/law-en ... -requests/
After thinking about it, we realized that it actually sounds way less invasive than having the Facebook or Instagram apps installed on your phone (which actually track your location in almost real time). 

^^U City has a camera registry too:

http://www.ucitymo.org/801/Camera-Program

I don't like any home surveillance system being looped into law enforcement. They have demonstrated themselves to be completely untrustworthy, and ethically I simply cannot have cops showing up and killing one of my neighbor's grandsons who happens to be walking down the sidewalk because my security system triggered the police. I'm fine with cameras and lights and motion sensors everywhere, but the police are a white supremacist terrorist organization, and any automated system I install isn't calling them under any circumstances. Evidence to be submitted to them later, perhaps; punctually summoning them, never. Ever.

kipfilet wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

i wonder what Ring does with all that data they collect... i'm all for more cameras in whatever form. just want to point out that the integration of thousands of independent cameras now being enthusiastically discussed in this thread is far more complex than the aerial surveillance that was proposed and no less invasive or free from abuse potential.

This was something we gave some consideration to, and decided that the benefits greatly outweigh the costs. They state they do nothing with the data, we all obviously know that this is not true given the times we live in. But, really, in our case we have two ring devices: a doorbell, with a camera that faces the sidewalk and the walkway to our door, and a floodcam that faces my backalley.  Privacy-wise it is no different than having a neighbor who sits on the sidewalk and on the back alley 24/7.
What's the worst they can do with hours of footage of possums, cats, and neighbor cars going through the alley? Are they going to study my and my wife's movements and try to rob my house? Besides, they seem to be quite resistant (way more than I expected) to share data with law enforcement: they publish every quarter or so a report with the # of subpoenas etc they received for footage, and whether they complied with them or not.  See: https://blog.ring.com/2020/03/27/law-en ... -requests/
After thinking about it, we realized that it actually sounds way less invasive than having the Facebook or Instagram apps installed on your phone (which actually track your location in almost real time). 

i was just pointing out the overblown anxiety over the proposed aerial surveillance in comparison to the other types of surveillance being endorsed here. i guarantee that Ring is mining everyone's footage or selling it to others to be mined (what products are you carrying into/out of your house? what times of day are you coming/going?). in that sense it's much different than a nosy neighbor and about on par, i would say, with what Facebook, Instagram, etc. are doing. if it is the case that Ring is reluctant to share data with law enforcement, then i'm not sure how useful it can be as a large-scale crime deterrent/crime solver.

throatybeard wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

Meanwhile, the County has flooded the Delmar stop with around ten police vehicles and their operators and they're all lollygagging around there.

Because obviously it was the Delmar stop itself who shot the security guard. It was the place that did it, you see. There's no way this could possibly happen at Wellston, or Rock Road, or UMSL, et cetera. A ludicrous show of force in the place it happened after the fact is the obvious way to keep it from happening again.

There were two county cops hanging out outside the Landing stop today, which is not something I'd seen before.

One was, of course, in his car on the edge of the Arch grounds. I have no data aside from frequent observation, but those guys have to be spending far, far more time in their cars than on any trains and platforms.

Perhaps they could try patrolling the Metrolink instead of the parking spots near the Metrolink.

There was a county police car in the parking lot by the Skinker station on Monday.

throatybeard wrote: ↑

Feb 02, 2021

Meanwhile, the County has flooded the Delmar stop with around ten police vehicles and their operators and they're all lollygagging around there.

Because obviously it was the Delmar stop itself who shot the security guard. It was the place that did it, you see. There's no way this could possibly happen at Wellston, or Rock Road, or UMSL, et cetera. A ludicrous show of force in the place it happened after the fact is the obvious way to keep it from happening again.

Hot spot policing at it's finest.

Seriously, just put one on every platform and/or train for 4 hour shifts, then they can go about their day.  Really not rocket science and we can hopefully avoid high profile incidents in the future.  I feel genuinely sorry for any Metro security who have to deal with this sh*t without being deputized.  What's the incentive? Keeping your job at cost of being abused, berated, injured, shot without any means of self defense or authority to arrest?

I volunteer Bella Villa's finest first for their tour of duty.  They only need about one police officer for that entire municipality anyways.  Might as well put them to good use.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Feb 03, 2021

i was just pointing out the overblown anxiety over the proposed aerial surveillance in comparison to the other types of surveillance being endorsed here. i guarantee that Ring is mining everyone's footage or selling it to others to be mined (what products are you carrying into/out of your house? what times of day are you coming/going?). in that sense it's much different than a nosy neighbor and about on par, i would say, with what Facebook, Instagram, etc. are doing. if it is the case that Ring is reluctant to share data with law enforcement, then i'm not sure how useful it can be as a large-scale crime deterrent/crime solver.

I'm with you on the spy plane. I am a conceptual proponent of the spy plane. Clearly whatever we are doing in terms of fighting crime is not working in St. Louis, so new solutions are welcome. I was a practical opponent due to the shadiness and lack of transparency surrounding the deal.
Ring users are free to share their data with law enforcement, that's what those camera registries in Clayton and UCity are for. The information I posted is for LEO requests to Ring for data that bypass the users/owners of the cameras.

throatybeard wrote:I don't like any home surveillance system being looped into law enforcement. They have demonstrated themselves to be completely untrustworthy, and ethically I simply cannot have cops showing up and killing one of my neighbor's grandsons who happens to be walking down the sidewalk because my security system triggered the police. I'm fine with cameras and lights and motion sensors everywhere, but the police are a white supremacist terrorist organization, and any automated system I install isn't calling them under any circumstances. Evidence to be submitted to them later, perhaps; punctually summoning them, never. Ever.

That’s not the way it works. The police would reach out after a nearby crime occurred and request from you to view the footage. The video doesn’t trigger the police.

Exactly. I would argue that a fleet of cameras would actually hinder abusive cops. It won't matter if your body cam "malfunctions" if there are three different angles of an incident from different cameras. 

It would be nice if the police or neighborhood watches could put out a notice for residents to check their home security devices within a certain time frame on a specific day. 

It'd also be great if neighbors could collaborate and thwart porch pirates.

KansasCitian wrote: ↑

Feb 03, 2021

It would be nice if the police or neighborhood watches could put out a notice for residents to check their home security devices within a certain time frame on a specific day. 

It'd also be great if neighbors could collaborate and thwart porch pirates.

That's what me and my neighbors do by giving each other viewing access to each of our outdoor cameras.

The party of stupid is at it again, Missouri gop wants to fire police officers that work with the feds on gun cases.

Broke: Fire cops who commit gun crimes.
Woke: Fire cops who solve gun crimes.

I'm guessing this is the usual state rep chest-puffing baloney that never goes anywhere? But it's certainly supremely stupid.

They’ve amended the bill to not publish individual officers but for a person to be able to sue a police department if it helps federal agents and also it wants to defund the police (oh the irony) at minimum by $50,000 for each offense. https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 417d6.html

Mother, 2 girls shot to death in South City: 'Very tragic situation'
https://www.kmov.com/news/mother-2-girl ... 1e279.html

This comes after the automatic fire extravaganza from last night (if you live in the tower grove area you certainly heard it).

Sounds like a a domestic dispute settled with a gun, the American way.

So so sad!!! Seems to get worse each year


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Something never talked about- what if our detectives just suck at their job?

Sgt.Taylor worked with them

KMOV Investigation: Lengthy 911 delays in St. Louis

https://www.kmov.com/news/investigation ... ae97c.html

Others on the forum have mentioned KMOV trolling the city, downtown, etc, but I genuinely appreciate these investigations.  These are the kinds of things that need to be brought out into the light and addressed.