urbanSTL

symphonicpoet wrote:^You mean the historic Marshall Field's flagship?

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Jan 29, 2021

Living in Chicago for 20 years I can verify it's just like STL with KC. Born and raised Chicagoans could care less. The comments I've received are generally positive. Plenty who've said they travel to St. Louis and enjoy themselves. Specific comments about great architecture. Others have said they have contemplated moving to St. Louis to reduce costs.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Apr 17, 2021

STLinCHI wrote: ↑

Jan 29, 2021

Living in Chicago for 20 years I can verify it's just like STL with KC. Born and raised Chicagoans could care less. The comments I've received are generally positive. Plenty who've said they travel to St. Louis and enjoy themselves. Specific comments about great architecture. Others have said they have contemplated moving to St. Louis to reduce costs.

Eh, not in my more than two decades of living, working, and playing with Chicagoans of all stripes. Experiences may vary of course. There is a marked difference in attitude between native and transplant Chicagoans, and between north or west suburbanites, native city residents, and southsiders. Unless you are at a Blackhawks game, the latter two are at least ambivalent, and occasionally try to say something positive about St. Louis. But mostly I think this is due to the fact that they also often bear the brunt of that very upper middle class north and west suburban disdain.

I suppose much of it is just sheer ignorance based on the intractable belief that anything south of Joliet is all the same, and just some variation of "The South". If, literally, your only knowledge of St. Louis was what you saw, heard, and smelled on the drive down 55 between Chicago and Busch Stadium, and a day spent around downtown at a Cards game or Mardi Gras; or when interacting with the jort-wearing, southern Illinois redneck Cardinals' fans at Wrigley, then what would you think? That's the attitude.

Many of the questions, comments and arguments I've experienced would blow your mind. They refuse to believe that St. Louis is anything other than a small, poor city in the Deep South, where what little there is of interest is downtown, and the few wealthy people and transplants all live in two or three nice suburbs. Think Memphis or Little Rock, or, when they are really trying to be complimentary, Birmingham.

matguy70 wrote:So today I am in Chicago for a couple nights.  First thought and observation.... downtown is dead.  I mean dead.  There is hardly any traffic (foot and vehicle) and I thought it seemed so strange.  I decided to take a "Gangster Tour" of the city... 3 hours bus and walking tour.  My guide was great, almost a personal tour since there were so few people.  He offered telling the handful of us that tourism is slow and the city has "changed" so much since Covid (happening in every city).  But he went on to say that the crime in downtown Chicago is also keeping tourist and Chicagoans away from downtown and may neighborhoods in the city.   He referenced the more than 50 shootings over the last weekend alone and yesterday (Monday) there were over 20 shootings with 7 homicides in one day.

Monday was one of the deadliest days in Chicago this year, following a weekend when more than 50 people were shot


CNN Chicago is throwing entire Government Toward Summer Violence and Shootings

Our guide said that most suburbanites, unfortunately, no longer feel safe even in downtown Chicago anymore and are steering away from the central city.  He referenced that Michigan Avenue has lost approximately 40 percent of its storefronts (many from Covid fall out - but also says many stores lost much revenue as Chicagoans have steered away from coming to the city to shop as well.  Macy's closed their Michigan Avenue store in January (leaving 170,000 sq feet empty) and more than 20 (he said) stores have closed since January (prior to covid as well) in the Water Tower Place Mall on Michigan Avenue.  Now there is rumor (he said) that Macy's will also shutter their State Street store (old Marshall Fields flagship) by the end of this year (but possibly sooner).  Bloomingdales on Michigan Avenue has now liquidated most of their store and it is re-consolidating (whatever that means),  Gap, Old Navy, Hill City, Janie and Jack, Intermix, Banana Republic, Athleta, Express, Candyality, David's Tea, Henri Bendel, Papyrus, Vera Bradley, Abercrombie & Fitch, Abercrombie Kids, Starbucks @ Water Tower, A Pea in a Pod, Clarks, Cusp, Francesca’s, Hallmark, The Walking Company and the famous Foodlife food hall (after 27 years) have all closed on the Magnificent Mile in the past month.  Another 28 stores on the street will close by summers end (Chicago Tribune Story Paid Content).

Then off to dinner to a restaurant between the Wrigley Building and Trump Tower called Bongiorno's Cucina Italiana, a long established institute in downtown Chicago.  The owner came around to our outdoor seating (few tables other than us in the center of downtown) and greeted us.  He went on to say that he appreciated our business but would also be closing the restaurant soon.  He didn't credit it to Covid - he credited all to crime in downtown has left him with no other decision.  He said that June is one of his biggest months (as all of summer is) but tourist and Chicagoans are not coming downtown.  He said "when I can hear gun shots just streets away - big streets like Wacker and Michigan and State", who wants to keep coming here and enjoying the riverfront like they use too.  After 48 years he plans to close by the end of the Summer season.  Next door to his restaurant is a permanently shuttered Goddess Bakery, Starbucks and around the corner a former Dunkin Donuts (still has sign up and store dark in which he said hasn't opened back up for over a year).  It is a very sad scene.  

In addition, more than (combined) 3 WIllis (Sears) Towers office space total is empty in downtown Chicago.  Yikes.   The Chicago Times vacated their iconic building on the river and Michigan Avenue in 2018, condos are being built in - but less than 10 percent have leased since last year.  The building is dark and primarily empty.  Now it sounds like the Bears NFL team will be leaving downtown to the (Arlington Park) suburbs.  Soldier Field will likely sit empty. 

Move to safer suburbs makes total sense for Bears and a new stadium

https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ryan-ori/ct-biz-downtown-chicago-record-office-space-availability-ryan-ori-20210312-r4zxqbfpurb6vjrolaoqrt2ikq-story.html 

So where does this leave American Cities?  Midwest American Cities?  Even NYC City?  Prior to the pandemic these issues were happening (crime increases / store closures) but during and since the pandemic, these issues have become more and more reality and fallout.  

Re-emphasizing, I think downtown STL and Washington Avenue last week seemed busier than most of Downtown Chicago and even Grant Park today.