^ Enterprise...
Do I think the NBA could make it here? Probably. I watch less than an NBA game total a year but if we had a team I would become a fan.
Do I think they come? 5% chance. I’m sure the remodeled arena helps but I can’t see an ownership group with the money that could make it happen unless they got some outside investors interested. But I’m not sure why they would invest here over Vegas or even a San Diego (that only has baseball). Assuming Seattle is a shoe in for one spot.
Do I think they come? 5% chance. I’m sure the remodeled arena helps but I can’t see an ownership group with the money that could make it happen unless they got some outside investors interested. But I’m not sure why they would invest here over Vegas or even a San Diego (that only has baseball). Assuming Seattle is a shoe in for one spot.
^ I feel about the same as you in terms of being a fan. I don’t follow it now...but would likely get on board with a local team.
I think fan support here would be great, especially if the team was good. But like wabash said, that’s a steep fee to get in. And while the fan support might be there, is the corporate support? St. Louis has a solid stock of large companies but another pro sports team may be a stretch for some of them.
I think fan support here would be great, especially if the team was good. But like wabash said, that’s a steep fee to get in. And while the fan support might be there, is the corporate support? St. Louis has a solid stock of large companies but another pro sports team may be a stretch for some of them.
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^Never really cared about basketball. But if you give me a team to follow I might just.
I guess you could take a look at Denver as peer - with NFL (Broncos), MLB (Rockies), NHL (Avalanche), NBA (Nuggets) and MLS if not mistaken. Some correct me but count five pro sport teams in Denver. St. Louis is 3 with lets see and what really happens with XFL (sorry, just not in same leage or any level as NFL, MLB, or NBA in my opinion)ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021Where would a team play?wabash wrote:The NBA would be immensely popular here and St. Louis is more than enough market for the NBA compared to Portland, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, Cleveland, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio. Also, like St. Louis, the two markets the NBA is rumored to be primarily targeting, Seattle and Las Vegas, also already have two major sports team. The attendance would be a multiple of "a couple thousand" and of the 6,900 that SLU averaged at home games last year. The lowest attendance teams in the NBA get around 15,000.chriss752 wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021I'm not opposed to the idea at all. But is there really a market for an NBA team here in St. Louis? I get that Baseball, Soccer, Hockey, and Football are all popular here but Basketball is an unknown to me. I'm sure a couple thousand people would go to games, but I doubt we would have sell out games.
I think the biggest problem is the price tag. It's great to see the Chaifetz's interest and enthusiasm, and it's amazing what they've done for SLU, but $2.5 billion is a big number.
STL with 4 professional teams feels overweight compared to many other potential targets.
What I think makes it work in Denver is having the NBA and NHL under one ownership group if not mistaken and in one arena. Can see the same for St. Louis. Heavy hitters get together and work a deal to put Blues and a NBA franchise under one ownership group & long term extended lease for Enterprise Center (not sure what it is now). Heck, Enterprise Family probably has the muscle to help any group pull it off
Denver’s economy is about 33% larger and growing faster. Their TV market is 14th largest vs STL at 23. I don’t see them as being a peer.dredger wrote:I guess you could take a look at Denver as peer - with NFL (Broncos), MLB (Rockies), NHL (Avalanche), NBA (Nuggets) and MLS if not mistaken. Some correct me but count five pro sport teams in Denver. St. Louis is 3 with lets see and what really happens with XFL (sorry, just not in same leage or any level as NFL, MLB, or NBA in my opinion)ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021Where would a team play?wabash wrote: The NBA would be immensely popular here and St. Louis is more than enough market for the NBA compared to Portland, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, Cleveland, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio. Also, like St. Louis, the two markets the NBA is rumored to be primarily targeting, Seattle and Las Vegas, also already have two major sports team. The attendance would be a multiple of "a couple thousand" and of the 6,900 that SLU averaged at home games last year. The lowest attendance teams in the NBA get around 15,000.
I think the biggest problem is the price tag. It's great to see the Chaifetz's interest and enthusiasm, and it's amazing what they've done for SLU, but $2.5 billion is a big number.
STL with 4 professional teams feels overweight compared to many other potential targets.
What I think makes it work in Denver is having the NBA and NHL under one ownership group if not mistaken and in one arena. Can see the same for St. Louis. Heavy hitters get together and work a deal to put Blues and a NBA franchise under one ownership group & long term extended lease for Enterprise Center (not sure what it is now). Heck, Enterprise Family probably has the muscle to help any group pull it off
Looking at TV market rankings alone. There are bigger markets with 2 or even just 1 real pro team.
I really don’t think the viewership or the fan $$$ to support a 4th pro team is there.
Cleveland is a good comp with three major teams to our current two. MLS doesn't really qualify as one of the major sports leagues despite the name and them really wanting to. It might get there some day, but right now it's not really close - about 1/5 the size of the NHL and 1/12 the size of the NFL (the smallest and largest "major" leagues) by revenue and about the same as England & Wales' second tier soccer league. MLS is much closer in revenue to the larger college conferences (while having 10+ more teams) than any of the big four pro sports.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2021Denver’s economy is about 33% larger and growing faster. Their TV market is 14th largest vs STL at 23. I don’t see them as being a peer.dredger wrote:I guess you could take a look at Denver as peer - with NFL (Broncos), MLB (Rockies), NHL (Avalanche), NBA (Nuggets) and MLS if not mistaken. Some correct me but count five pro sport teams in Denver. St. Louis is 3 with lets see and what really happens with XFL (sorry, just not in same leage or any level as NFL, MLB, or NBA in my opinion)ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021Where would a team play?
STL with 4 professional teams feels overweight compared to many other potential targets.
What I think makes it work in Denver is having the NBA and NHL under one ownership group if not mistaken and in one arena. Can see the same for St. Louis. Heavy hitters get together and work a deal to put Blues and a NBA franchise under one ownership group & long term extended lease for Enterprise Center (not sure what it is now). Heck, Enterprise Family probably has the muscle to help any group pull it off
Looking at TV market rankings alone. There are bigger markets with 2 or even just 1 real pro team.
I really don’t think the viewership or the fan $$$ to support a 4th pro team is there.
Pittsburgh also.wabash wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2021Cleveland is a good comp with three major teams to our current two. MLS doesn't really qualify as one of the major sports leagues despite the name and them really wanting to. It might get there some day, but right now it's not really close - about 1/5 the size of the NHL and 1/12 the size of the NFL (the smallest and largest "major" leagues) by revenue and about the same as England & Wales' second tier soccer league. MLS is much closer in revenue to the larger college conferences (while having 10+ more teams) than any of the big four pro sports.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2021Denver’s economy is about 33% larger and growing faster. Their TV market is 14th largest vs STL at 23. I don’t see them as being a peer.dredger wrote: I guess you could take a look at Denver as peer - with NFL (Broncos), MLB (Rockies), NHL (Avalanche), NBA (Nuggets) and MLS if not mistaken. Some correct me but count five pro sport teams in Denver. St. Louis is 3 with lets see and what really happens with XFL (sorry, just not in same leage or any level as NFL, MLB, or NBA in my opinion)
What I think makes it work in Denver is having the NBA and NHL under one ownership group if not mistaken and in one arena. Can see the same for St. Louis. Heavy hitters get together and work a deal to put Blues and a NBA franchise under one ownership group & long term extended lease for Enterprise Center (not sure what it is now). Heck, Enterprise Family probably has the muscle to help any group pull it off
Looking at TV market rankings alone. There are bigger markets with 2 or even just 1 real pro team.
I really don’t think the viewership or the fan $$$ to support a 4th pro team is there.
I know it's a bit dated at this point but I put together this post on page one back in 2015 comparing the corporate dollars available in Denver vs St. Louis. I've long felt STL could support four major teams. Three plus MLS (which is rising but IMO isn't "major" yet) is entirely doable.dredger wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2021I guess you could take a look at Denver as peer - with NFL (Broncos), MLB (Rockies), NHL (Avalanche), NBA (Nuggets) and MLS if not mistaken. Some correct me but count five pro sport teams in Denver. St. Louis is 3 with lets see and what really happens with XFL (sorry, just not in same leage or any level as NFL, MLB, or NBA in my opinion)ldai_phs wrote: ↑Jan 06, 2021Where would a team play?wabash wrote: The NBA would be immensely popular here and St. Louis is more than enough market for the NBA compared to Portland, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, Cleveland, New Orleans, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio. Also, like St. Louis, the two markets the NBA is rumored to be primarily targeting, Seattle and Las Vegas, also already have two major sports team. The attendance would be a multiple of "a couple thousand" and of the 6,900 that SLU averaged at home games last year. The lowest attendance teams in the NBA get around 15,000.
I think the biggest problem is the price tag. It's great to see the Chaifetz's interest and enthusiasm, and it's amazing what they've done for SLU, but $2.5 billion is a big number.
STL with 4 professional teams feels overweight compared to many other potential targets.
What I think makes it work in Denver is having the NBA and NHL under one ownership group if not mistaken and in one arena. Can see the same for St. Louis. Heavy hitters get together and work a deal to put Blues and a NBA franchise under one ownership group & long term extended lease for Enterprise Center (not sure what it is now). Heck, Enterprise Family probably has the muscle to help any group pull it off
And re: the Blues sharing the Enterprise center with an NBA team, remember that it's owned by the city of St. Louis, not the Blues. Certainly the Blues would have to be a willing co-tenant but (aside from not wanting to pay for improvements to the arena) they've traditionally been a really strong civic partner. Anything's possible but I don't see them standing in the way of an effort to land an NBA team and put them in the Enterprise Center.
-RBB
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I was going to mention the same as wabash... As much as I'd like MLS to be considered in the top 5, it really fails on the TV // revenue side of things. "Soccer" as a whole, you could put up top because of youth sports, participants, etc... but the MLS on its own is probably more of a stretch.
Most of the graphs on here sorted descending should give a good idea to how far the MLS still has to go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in ... ted_States
Most of the graphs on here sorted descending should give a good idea to how far the MLS still has to go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in ... ted_States
As for getting fans interested, it helps that two of the biggest stars in the sport are from St. Louis - Bradley Beal and Jayson Tatum. Both went to Chaminade.
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Unless the NBA is interesting in just getting a payday, I don't see Missouri getting a team anytime soon.
And even then, the cost for a new franchise is pretty exorbitant.
I would say that Seattle and Vegas are the frontrunners by a mile for this next round of expansion.
If the league expands beyond that, I would think a super hot city like Nashville might be next in line.
And even then, the cost for a new franchise is pretty exorbitant.
I would say that Seattle and Vegas are the frontrunners by a mile for this next round of expansion.
If the league expands beyond that, I would think a super hot city like Nashville might be next in line.
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Nashville is a hot city, but it’ll be another 1M people before it catches us in population. I doubt it has as many big business players. I don’t think Vegas is a lock, either. Seattle is, though.KansasCitian wrote:Unless the NBA is interesting in just getting a payday, I don't see Missouri getting a team anytime soon.
And even then, the cost for a new franchise is pretty exorbitant.
I would say that Seattle and Vegas are the frontrunners by a mile for this next round of expansion.
If the league expands beyond that, I would think a super hot city like Nashville might be next in line.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Vegas would be next in line after Seattle. Nashville sounds good at first... but don't forget that Memphis is already in the League too. Doubt they'd be happy with a team in Nashville / would just relocate there at some point if they felt it was a better regional market.
Seattle for sure...Vegas has shown some considerable success with its NHL team (both on and off the ice) so I imagine they would be on any short list. Nashville and Memphis aren’t all that much different population wise (yet) so I’m not sure huge growth would be a requirement for NSH picking up a team...but like others have said, I would guess Tennessee already having a team puts them on the back burner tho.
Enterprise would absolutely be shared between the Blues and any hypothetical NBA team. New York, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Toronto, DC, and probably a bunch of others I’m forgetting all currently split buildings between the NHL and NBA. Staples Center has three teams based there. I imagine the Blues would be willing partners anyway...but if they weren’t I would also guess the NHL and NBA would get into the mix there. Not sure the Blues have any real leverage on that side of things with the City owning the building. I would also venture to guess any hypothetical NBA ownership group would likely include some members of the current Blues group anyway.
Enterprise would absolutely be shared between the Blues and any hypothetical NBA team. New York, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Toronto, DC, and probably a bunch of others I’m forgetting all currently split buildings between the NHL and NBA. Staples Center has three teams based there. I imagine the Blues would be willing partners anyway...but if they weren’t I would also guess the NHL and NBA would get into the mix there. Not sure the Blues have any real leverage on that side of things with the City owning the building. I would also venture to guess any hypothetical NBA ownership group would likely include some members of the current Blues group anyway.
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I believe the NBA has gone to smaller markets to avoid direct competition with NFL and MLB for a long time.
Memphis, Portland, Orlando, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, and Oklahoma City are all examples of this. Indianapolis has NFL but nothing else.
The league going to Nashville or another hotter, smaller market without both the NFL and MLB is in no way a stretch.
Memphis, Portland, Orlando, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, and Oklahoma City are all examples of this. Indianapolis has NFL but nothing else.
The league going to Nashville or another hotter, smaller market without both the NFL and MLB is in no way a stretch.
Nashville has NFL.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2021The league going to Nashville or another hotter, smaller market without both the NFL and MLB is in no way a stretch.
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I said BOTH the NFL and MLB. NBA has shows it will sometimes take on one in a small- or mid-sized market, but they show an extreme reluctance to take on both at the same time. I used Indianapolis as an example of this.
None of these listed already had 2 major sports like Nashville, so it’s hard for me to put Nashville in a group with those. Nashville also seems to be more interested in getting a MLB team.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2021I believe the NBA has gone to smaller markets to avoid direct competition with NFL and MLB for a long time.
Memphis, Portland, Orlando, San Antonio, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, and Oklahoma City are all examples of this. Indianapolis has NFL but nothing else.
The league going to Nashville or another hotter, smaller market without both the NFL and MLB is in no way a stretch.
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Nashville tried really hard to host the Raptors this season.
It was basically down to them and Tampa. For some reason, Tampa, which probably isn't a contender for an NBA team, got the Raptors.
It was basically down to them and Tampa. For some reason, Tampa, which probably isn't a contender for an NBA team, got the Raptors.
Foremost, I think an NBA/NHL partnership in EC seems like the highest output of a building we've sunk hundreds of millions into. Secondly, it might be the impetus to finally get some development going up around EC. It's a wasteland. I'm not a basketball fan really, but I would definitely be brought more into the fold if we had our own team.
Got back into pro basketball during the pandemic, watched more NBA in the past year then probably the last 5 added together, would love a team, but I don't think we have the corporate sponsorship/sports dollars to make it happen. My guess expansion will be Seattle then a toss up with San Diego, Vegas, or Raleigh-Durham
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St. Louis wasn't a bad NFL city. The Rams had been losers for the past 11 years when they moved. And they were bad losers in most of those years.
The only reason St. Louis lost the NFL is that Kroenke was willing to spend billions in California and force the league's hand.
If St. Louis can support an NFL team, which I believe it can, it can support NBA+MLS.
That said, I put the odds of St. Louis landing a team remarkably low - at least for now.
The only reason St. Louis lost the NFL is that Kroenke was willing to spend billions in California and force the league's hand.
If St. Louis can support an NFL team, which I believe it can, it can support NBA+MLS.
That said, I put the odds of St. Louis landing a team remarkably low - at least for now.
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This is an excellent article on the subject and really helps add some clarity that it really is going to be Seattle for sure and then Las Vegas' to lose. Kansas City has a chance, but it needs someone with deep deep pockets to champion the pursuit to even have a fighting chance. Oh, and St. Louis' own Dr. Rishe of WashU adds some fantastic insights and analysis. (He's a great guy and is extremely well connected to the Sports and Entertainment industry - had the chance to briefly partner with him to staff out a project last winter).
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/14/kansas- ... vegas.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/14/kansas- ... vegas.html