urbanSTL

Somewhat off-topic, but spent a little time in Knoxville this weekend.  Market Square is such a gem.  So is Gay Street.  Would love to see a public pedestrian space with active business like I saw at Market Square.  Very inviting.  While dreaming, where could something like this exist? The area is littered with old brick buildings, though all seemingly occupied.

I'm really not a fan of cutting the street grid any more than it already is.  But it felt very authentic and human-scale, something that wouldn't feel right with new construction.  I feel like a new hub of small commerce could be a big win for Downtown.  I mean, my girlfriend loved it just because it looked like a Hallmark movie lol.  If that's enough to bring some people down and feel safe, that's half the battle.

Locust between Jefferson and Grand should be a pedestrian only street and you have a few N/S roads open to cross it.  Its also sandwiched between Wash Ave and Olive where you have plenty of street parking a block over in either direction. 

I was surprised by Knoxville's square as well and really enjoyed our time there.  (Gave Chattanooga 2 chances and not a fan of that city).   My wife and I have said downtown should really have a square like Europe, if they could close off and fill in Keiner Plaza that would really fit the bill.   Even as is in mid-summer during tourist season it's a nice vibe.  We've also thought it'd be cool to have the Maryland/Euclid intersection closed off on weekends with the raisable in ground posts. 

Not the same scale but the Plaza in the Hill is worth a visit.  

It's certainly not a major thoroughfare for automobile traffic with it being bookended by Theresa on one side and the opposite direction one way Locust east of 14th.

Looking back at the history of it, it appears that it used to have an oblong market in the middle.  Similar to Tucker.  I only surmised while being there that they must have vacated a street, but it appears that there was once traffic around the oblong market in the middle.  Again, similar to Tucker.  I guess the original market was demolished and what is left was just turned into pedestrian only.

I'm not really for disrupting the street grid, again.  It just felt organic, honestly.  And the two-way streets around it seemed like perfectly fine thoroughfares.  I didn't think through it from a city planning perspective, just that it felt vibrant, safe, and had a lot of small businesses.  Small business seems to have been decimated to a degree Downtown.  How do we cultivate? There are numerous ways to go about it, but all cost money, and all seem like bandaids.  I still stand by my St. Charles St idea of making it a public market alley with low rent, low cost street food stalls.  More importantly, though, I'd want to see the changes made that reimagine Locust, Olive, Pine, Washington back into walkable, diverse commercial stretches.  All of that seems more arduous than guessing and implementing kitschy crap that tries to pull a few more transients into the area.  All that said, I don't live Downtown, and have only visited a handful of times over the last 7 months.

imran wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2020

You can achieve most of the same experiences by widening sidewalks at the expense of lanes to create space for pedestrian attractions.

Why would you not care that blocked streets inconvenience first responders, and force everyone to drive farther to get around the fuel-wasting 'super-block' , or that surrounding streets will feel the pressure of frustrated speeding? Not to mention the risk of creating a crime haven at times of day when not enough people are walking around; and ableism.

Public streets are what create, connect and unite a city. The predictable and intuitive street grid is a public amenity that has stood the test of time.
Exclusion of vehicular traffic (or any kind of traffic) on public streets to me is just another flavor of social injustice.  #checkyourprivilege

(pls dont read this in a shouting tone. I'm more sad than angry as I write this)

Yeah people are dying and buildings burning all over European city centers because first responders can’t get to them.....

^exactly what I was thinking. You can still get emergency vehicles down pedestrian streets.

I would be concerned that removing street parking from Locust would encourage demo for parking lots on parallel streets

I read imran's post again and have the same feeling as db. Also using ableism to justify U.S. car dependent culture is infuriating. 

Free the Grid!

imran wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2020

aprice wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2020

I read imran's post again and have the same feeling as db. Also using ableism to justify U.S. car dependent culture is infuriating. 

Certainly not meant to infuriate.. I hope someday we will have a safe/robust public transit network in STL so people of all abilities could access the City and we could truly be car-optional.  In the meanwhile street closures just seem like an excuse for entitled folks to privatize a public space without having to foot the bill or having to think about how they impact others.

Heck I would donate $10,000 towards a fund to make locust ped only if the city was going to do it. Having worked in this field for a decade I’m realizing the best model to get these things done is to start funding some of this like how WUSTL/BJc do it .  And as someone who’s had to push my dad in a wheelchair for 2 years don’t you tell me about impact on others

f*ck cars. close 'em all.

I've always had a personal pipe dream of free modern streetcar system (think KC) running between Downtown and Grand Center in largely pedestrianized route similar to Main Street in Memphis. This could run down either Wash Ave in its entirety or transfer to Locust at around 20th. Eventual (street running) extensions can run on Broadway/4th south past BPV to Soulard or west on Lindell to the CWE.

All the utility of KC's streetcar mixed with the vibe of Main Street Memphis seems like a nice concoction to me.

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2020

I've always had a personal pipe dream of free modern streetcar system (think KC) running between Downtown and Grand Center in largely pedestrianized route similar to Main Street in Memphis. This could run down either Wash Ave in its entirety or transfer to Locust at around 20th. Eventual (street running) extensions can run on Broadway/4th south past BPV to Soulard or west on Lindell to the CWE.

All the utility of KC's streetcar mixed with the vibe of Main Street Memphis seems like a nice concoction to me.

Love this.  The is so much untapped value in connecting all of our unique neighborhoods and districts.

pattimagee wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2020

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2020

imran wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2020

Certainly not meant to infuriate.. I hope someday we will have a safe/robust public transit network in STL so people of all abilities could access the City and we could truly be car-optional.  In the meanwhile street closures just seem like an excuse for entitled folks to privatize a public space without having to foot the bill or having to think about how they impact others.

Heck I would donate $10,000 towards a fund to make locust ped only if the city was going to do it. Having worked in this field for a decade I’m realizing the best model to get these things done is to start funding some of this like how WUSTL/BJc do it .  And as someone who’s had to push my dad in a wheelchair for 2 years don’t you tell me about impact on others

Denis - Do you think writing up a UrbanSTL petition // fundraiser would move the needle at all?  Then partnering with a small firm to do a render of what that could look like... I feel like there's some momentum with the Olive buildings (even though they still came down), maybe we, UrbanSTL, could start going on the offensive for something like that?

Maybe if re visited in the spring or summer once the covid dust (hpefully?) settles. 

I can't believe some of you are actually in favor of closing streets to auto traffic. Once again, this can work in densely populated areas, or European cities that are packed full of free-spending tourists, but St. Louis simply doesn't have the numbers to make it work. 

Free the Grid!  

pattimagee wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2020

I love the conversations that go on at UrbanSTL, I just wonder sometimes if we could do more for the city by creating some easy guerrilla marketing/propaganda  to push some of the ideas/projects that we all agree are good for the health of STL...

framer wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2020

I can't believe some of you are actually in favor of closing streets to auto traffic. Once again, this can work in densely populated areas, or European cities that are packed full of free-spending tourists, but St. Louis simply doesn't have the numbers to make it work. 

Free the Grid!  

well, cars + 70 years of car-focused development patters are a big reason that STL streets aren't packed full of free-spending tourists or residents. cars need to be put in their f*cking place.