urbanSTL

Does anyone see the community around it will changing?  I hate to be a Negative Ned but I just don't see many changes coming.  Maybe a small strip mall with a Jimmy 
John's, pizza joint , dry cleaners etc. and then only limited hours.

the construction of the facilities is $712,000,000 and the NGA equipment is about $1,000,000,000. I think that distinction needs to be made each time the $1.7B price tag is mentioned (which people have rounded up to $2.0 B now apparently).  When I build a house i dont tell my friends the cost of the furniture. 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2019

the construction of the facilities is $712,000,000 and the NGA equipment is about $1,000,000,000. I think that distinction needs to be made each time the $1.7B price tag is mentioned (which people have rounded up to $2.0 B now apparently).  When I build a house i dont tell my friends the cost of the furniture. 

A big chunk of that supposed $1 billion in "equipment" cost very likely includes installation.  The article posted above noted that the construction of the building shells (estimated cost $712 million) will be largely complete in 2023, but the campus won't open until 2025.  That's a lot of labor time.  There is also the significant labor cost of the wall / fence, security perimeter, grading, landscaping, etc. to consider, and I don't know where that number is included.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2019

I think that will depend on the city.

then we probably shouldn't expect much, if the last 70+ years are any indication.

I don’t think it will have a material impact on the immediate surrounding neighborhood - including retail or other development. It doesn’t seem to have had a particularly notable effect on it immediate surroundings in Kosciusko/Marine Villa. I don’t think it will be any different in St. Louis Place - especially as it sounds like this version will be even more locked down and fenced off for security purposes.

I do think it could have a marginal positive influence on Wash Ave, Downtown West and Midtown Alley in general. I think that’s where workers looking for a lunch spot or drinks after work will gravitate toward and where any new or relocating geospatial tech companies/employers would look first (along with Cortex). Just as with the current iteration the workers probably pop into Soulard or Benton Park to grab lunch or drinks.

Similarly, it could have a marginal positive impact on renovations and new builds in Old North St. Louis for the handful of employees that are interested in living nearby. But it seems unlikely blocks full of housing will spring up directly around it.

Rooster wrote: ↑

Nov 26, 2019

Does anyone see the community around it will changing?  I hate to be a Negative Ned but I just don't see many changes coming.  Maybe a small strip mall with a Jimmy 
John's, pizza joint , dry cleaners etc. and then only limited hours.

My thought is the benefactor and continued Jeff Ave investment north of I64, specifically the Jefferson Connector development, has a lot to do with this project as well as Wells Fargo Security continued & incremental process.    Jeff Ave has the direct freeway connection as well as conduit for current employees from South County.  

I really hope this spurs development but I like others am a little skeptical. I have heard of plenty of other projects in STL that were supposed to spur development that didn't really pan out. 

I, however, don't think you can compare this to the current location. The current location is landlocked between the river, AB, and sigma. So to say nothing got developed around the current location I think isn't really apples to apples. There isn't anywhere all that close for anything to go up. When I say close I mean somewhere workers could easily walk to lunch. For the people I know that work there, there is more ordering out for pickup than going out. It seems like that breaks down 75% Blues City Deli, 15% pizza, and 10% somewhere else like bogarts. If you have to get into your car to get food then all bets are off on where you go because a half mile or 2 miles, it really isn't that big a difference. SO, I think if some restaurants can go in near the gates workers can walk out of then they would be helpful to the businesses but if they have to drive then that opens up places further away. I just have this vision that a bunch of fast food places go in, and I really would prefer that isn't the case. A couple, sure but not just fast food. I do think crown candy kitchen will do well. I could see plenty of people getting food to go from there. 

Beside restaurants and maybe a dry cleaner like someone mentioned, I am not sure what else could end up there. I think the hope would be some apartment complexes but really workers could live on wash ave and ride their bikes pretty easily and I don't know what other development it will take for a new apartment complex to go in. I am sure an always present QT could show up near it also. 

I think people still have this fear of going north of Delmar and it will be interesting if this can help break that line. There has to be more for businesses to go off of then just workers that are there during the day. I am hopeful this is game changer but I am still in the mode of I will believe it when I see it. I also don't know how much say mckee still has in the area and so far not much of his grand plan has panned out. 

I have seen people mention FBI moving onto the campus but I haven't seen anything that says NGA has offered space to the FBI or the FBI wants to be there. It is all just speculation by outside parties. So I don't really know how much merit that really has. Everything I have personally heard is that that isn't happening. But a lot can change in 5 years. 

^Thanks for the link. I’d be curious if this still is the case or if things have changed since March.

I was hoping we would get some new renderings with the groundbreaking.  Guess not.

I think we see some development around wherever the N/S route ends up going past the campus. I can also see the area east of campus (Old North/STL Place) seeing an increased pace of gentrification after they are suddenly geographically separated from the greater north side


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Here's some photos I took of the NGA site yesterday.  Also included are site photos of the old Pruitt Igo area, which now has a Homer G Phillips sign up and a partial structure that looks eerily similar to the structure that blew down last year.

^ Good thing MetroLink alignment has been proposed right along here.  Certainly plenty of their employees will use it when they have what looks like two 2000 spot parking garages taking up half of the footprint.

I'm pretty sure those renderings are outdated.  The recent city map of the Greenway shows a completely different site plan for NGA West, with the garages on the north and south ends of the campus.  It is one that I have never seen before.

^You are right, it's definitely the same site plan.  I hadn't seen those early renderings.  I guess the Greenway peeps pulled the old site plan to make their latest city map, or just never updated it from the original.  

I would still bet that the final NGA West site plan and building design will look much different from those latest renderings, or at least I hope the design will be.

urbanitas wrote:I would still bet that the final NGA West site plan and building design will look much different from those latest renderings, or at least I hope the design will be.

Those renderings will be pretty close. There may be minor changes but the layout and the exterior design will be very close to what is shown in the renderings.

I'm sorry, but this is not an urban development. I appreciate that it's a large investment, but it's not the right kind of investment for our city. I also seriously doubt that it will accelerate the rebound of nearby neighborhoods.

JacksonPolyp wrote: ↑

Jan 24, 2020

I'm sorry, but this is not an urban development. I appreciate that it's a large investment, but it's not the right kind of investment for our city. I also seriously doubt that it will accelerate the rebound of nearby neighborhoods.

Sadly I agree.