RBB's suggestion is a good one. Amazon also offers the ability to have their drivers put packages inside your home, but that's a questionable option in my opinion. Outside of that, this may just be a new reality. My parents live in Chesterfield and these thefts happen throughout their subdivision daily. Cars are getting broken into all the time apparently. They and a bunch of their neighbors are all getting the video doorbells and sharing images of the perps online and with the police.Rooster wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019Well I have been porch pirated twice in a week. I am so over it.
I can't have packages delivered to work against company policy.
I hate to bother the two elderly neighbors, everyone else I believe works during the day.
I guess I will have to open a P.O. Box.
Any other suggestions?
No the inside thing is off limits for me, I have two dogs number one and I don't want a stranger in my home.
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My wife and I have been porch pirated several times in the past two weeks. We live in Tower Grove South, but this was happening around this same time last year in KC, too. We are now looking into the Amazon lockers.
I think these people must be following the trucks or something.
I think these people must be following the trucks or something.
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I can think of 3 suggestions.
- Cheapest fix: A "Smile. You're on camera" sign on your porch.
- More expensive fix: Some sort of video doorbell, such as Ring.
- Most expensive fix: Move to a gated neighborhood in the suburbs lol
In all seriousness though (and pardon me but I don't know your living situation), here's what I would do. If your front door has a code, you can mention that in the delivery instructions and they can enter into your home and leave the package on the foyer. If you don't have a code or don't feel comfortable with that, you can have them throw it over your back fence if you have one (and if the package isn't fragile)
- Cheapest fix: A "Smile. You're on camera" sign on your porch.
- More expensive fix: Some sort of video doorbell, such as Ring.
- Most expensive fix: Move to a gated neighborhood in the suburbs lol
In all seriousness though (and pardon me but I don't know your living situation), here's what I would do. If your front door has a code, you can mention that in the delivery instructions and they can enter into your home and leave the package on the foyer. If you don't have a code or don't feel comfortable with that, you can have them throw it over your back fence if you have one (and if the package isn't fragile)
They are following the trucks. The drivers have been asked to keep an eye out for vehicles they believe are following them and write down license plate numbers if possible.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019My wife and I have been porch pirated several times in the past two weeks. We live in Tower Grove South, but this was happening around this same time last year in KC, too. We are now looking into the Amazon lockers.
I think these people must be following the trucks or something.
I will go check out Ebay and see if my 2 new dress shirts and t shirts appear. Hhaha.
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There was a story recently about how a family left out a box for a porch pirate with their daughter's dirty diapers inside.
Well, my daughter is 18 months old and while I would almost assuredly never do that, let's say I was kind of inspired.
Well, my daughter is 18 months old and while I would almost assuredly never do that, let's say I was kind of inspired.
^ I would absolutely do that if I had regular thefts from my porch. No hesitation. I might even call up a few friends with dogs...
Mainly because I don't have the tech knowledge to make this work haha:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... art-spray/
Mainly because I don't have the tech knowledge to make this work haha:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... art-spray/
FedEx & UPS websites allow you to have packages sent to you held for pickup at one of their locations.Rooster wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019Any other suggestions?
That looks better than that big red metal box I seen on the news the other night.
Although this looks like plastic and the thief would probably just carry it off. LOL.
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^It is 3' x 2' x 1.5' so at least they would have to work for it.
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I'm sure there are going to be more and more precautions taken to protect individuals and companies from porch pirating in the future.
Delivery trucks will probably install rear-facing cameras. If not a fan of the Amazon lockers, more and more homeowners will install door cameras, and will probably purchase boxes that give only drivers and themselves electronic access. And I'd be shocked if those didn't become more sophisticated as time went on.
If the box is opened, or moved, it would send a text alert to the owner. The box will also probably have GPS in it. And maybe the box would have a camera on it that turns on when the box is opened or moved, or even just approached.
I think we'll see some rapid changes concerning this in the next 10 years.
Delivery trucks will probably install rear-facing cameras. If not a fan of the Amazon lockers, more and more homeowners will install door cameras, and will probably purchase boxes that give only drivers and themselves electronic access. And I'd be shocked if those didn't become more sophisticated as time went on.
If the box is opened, or moved, it would send a text alert to the owner. The box will also probably have GPS in it. And maybe the box would have a camera on it that turns on when the box is opened or moved, or even just approached.
I think we'll see some rapid changes concerning this in the next 10 years.
I routinely find discarded empty packaging lying on the sidewalks, alleys, streets now. That has increased exponentially over the last year.
I have to laugh at the cameras and signs whenever I see them. The vast majority of people doing this could not care less about having their picture, or a picture of their "license plate", recorded, especially in the city. And I would love to see the face of a city police officer after you tell him or her that you have an image of your porch pirate...
I have to laugh at the cameras and signs whenever I see them. The vast majority of people doing this could not care less about having their picture, or a picture of their "license plate", recorded, especially in the city. And I would love to see the face of a city police officer after you tell him or her that you have an image of your porch pirate...
The solution to the porch pirate problem is ultimately going to have to involve a bolted-down delivery box on your porch, with an encrypted one-time access code sent to the driver's scanner. With as much money as they are losing, I am surprised Amazon hasn't worked something out yet. Having to go to a grocery store or pharmacy and get your package out of a locker kind of defeats the whole purpose of Amazon's existence, doesn't it?
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^Amazon's existence has a purpose?
Okay, that was a cheap shot. I order on eBay fairly frequently and I've not had any trouble. Maybe postal carriers are just too ubiquitous to bother with. Or maybe I live in a neighborhood that's not sufficiently sexy. I wonder how many of us order somewhat regularly and haven't had problems. (Just because you don't tend to talk about not having a problem.)
Anyway, sorry to hear you've had trouble.
Okay, that was a cheap shot. I order on eBay fairly frequently and I've not had any trouble. Maybe postal carriers are just too ubiquitous to bother with. Or maybe I live in a neighborhood that's not sufficiently sexy. I wonder how many of us order somewhat regularly and haven't had problems. (Just because you don't tend to talk about not having a problem.)
Anyway, sorry to hear you've had trouble.
Exactly. And a lot of times the thief wears a ball cap and walks up to the door head down.urbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 10, 2019I routinely find discarded empty packaging lying on the sidewalks, alleys, streets now. That has increased exponentially over the last year.
I have to laugh at the cameras and signs whenever I see them. The vast majority of people doing this could not care less about having their picture, or a picture of their "license plate", recorded, especially in the city. And I would love to see the face of a city police officer after you tell him or her that you have an image of your porch pirate...
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We're researching doorbell cameras and video systems for our upcoming rehab. We don't have many (if any) deliveries, but we want to be able to track who comes to our front door / porch as well as who might be near our garage from the ally. Even if people don't care that we will have their license plate, the ability to know real time that someone is there is important to us (especially since I work from home now). Forget the box they might steal - we just want to protect against someone who might be looking to break in completely.
The city needs to integrate better to this technology - there are apps, such as Ring's Neighbors, where people can post video and pictures from events and where others nearby can see if they caught anything around the same time. At some point, if a porch pirate is caught stealing from multiple houses on the same block, then yes the city should care that people have images and video.
The city needs to integrate better to this technology - there are apps, such as Ring's Neighbors, where people can post video and pictures from events and where others nearby can see if they caught anything around the same time. At some point, if a porch pirate is caught stealing from multiple houses on the same block, then yes the city should care that people have images and video.
This is exactly what the people in my folks subdivision in Chesterfield are doing. They don't have any real expectation these guys (or gals) will be caught, but anything to give them a little piece of mind.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Dec 10, 2019The city needs to integrate better to this technology - there are apps, such as Ring's Neighbors, where people can post video and pictures from events and where others nearby can see if they caught anything around the same time. At some point, if a porch pirate is caught stealing from multiple houses on the same block, then yes the city should care that people have images and video.
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Best case scenario is that if a neighborhood has multiple cameras that can catch a thief in real time, police could be dispatched to catch them in the act. At least, that's our hope.
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^^^ i bought an EZViz system a couple years ago and have been pretty happy with it. 8 indoor/outdoor vis/IR cameras + DVR + cables for under $500. good zoomable video quality. good night vision. mobile app is free. configurable motion alerts. etc. my only complaints are that the DVR interface is pretty clunky and you can't download video from it (though you can save images via the app). i'm sure theres a hack somewhere to get the video off the DVR's drive but i haven't bothered to figure it out yet. or they may have fixed these issues with newer versions. i'm pretty sure they have wireless versions as well but i opted for wired since it was cheaper and more stable (of course the initial set-up is more of a pain because of the wires).
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The New York Times has an article on the Nature of Misleading Crime Stats in STL, how what's often reported reflects only the City.
It's a great article presenting nationally what we have been saying for years: The reporting of STL's crime stats has historically been inaccurate as they've focused only on the City of STL, and that the STL Metro Area's crime stats do not rank us as the most violent city in the US. Yes, we need to keep fighting crime in the City, as too many people continue to die, but overall we're a lot safer than the rest of the country recognizes.
It's a great article presenting nationally what we have been saying for years: The reporting of STL's crime stats has historically been inaccurate as they've focused only on the City of STL, and that the STL Metro Area's crime stats do not rank us as the most violent city in the US. Yes, we need to keep fighting crime in the City, as too many people continue to die, but overall we're a lot safer than the rest of the country recognizes.
Thank you, NY Times. Now, if we could just get everyone in the country to read the damn article.
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It still appears that St. Louis is the 5th most dangerous metro in the U.S.
But even saying that would help a ton.
I'm not at all surprised that Memphis is the true #1.
But even saying that would help a ton.
I'm not at all surprised that Memphis is the true #1.
It has seemed to me that there are usually two types of people: The people who live outside the city limits and focus too much on the crime statistics and refuse to ever come into the city because they believe they'll get shot or carjacked, and then there are ones who tend to dismiss the statistics and deem them "unfair" or "inaccurate." To me, both viewpoints are a little unbalanced, and I'm kind of in the middle.
To start, I've never understood the reason why so many that live here really seem to believe that the crime rankings for St. Louis are misleading or inaccurate. I know it's argued that since our city size is geographically small and other cities are larger, that it skews the statistics and misleads others into thinking we're more dangerous than we are. That may be true, but not inaccurate, as it's simply using the crime data from within the city limits as it should be. So to me, our crime stats are actually MORE accurate than other cities like Chicago, whose city limits are huge. The smaller the sample area, the more accurate depiction you'll have of that area. If someone wants to know the crime rates of St. Louis, they don't want other cities within that sample; that would dilute it. In the same way if someone wanted to know the crime rates of Chesterfield, they don't want the rates of St. Louis within those.
Having larger city limits doesn't necessarily mean you'll fall down through the crime rankings; Memphis is huge in land area, is spread out into the countryside, and has few suburbs, yet is always pretty high on the most dangerous cities list. You couldn't argue that the rankings make Memphis look bad only because of tight city boundaries - it would have to be crime itself. To add St. Louis County to the St. Louis crime statistics; THAT would be truly misleading, as people would then believe (if it actually caused St. Louis to fall tremendously down the crime rankings) to believe that St. Louis is suddenly "safe" or that progress was truly being made in the city. I'm also not sure what people are wanting to see if we incorporated the county into our crime stats...I couldn't see it making a very big difference, because we would be obtaining also-crime-ridden towns such as Pine Lawn, Jennings, Bellefountaine, Spanish Lake, Wellston, Kinloch, etc. I mean, would we be happy and settle with being number 10 or 12 most dangerous "city" in America?
Now I would be quicker to agree with the viewpoint of the statistics being misleading or inaccurate if I could say that St. Louis a safe city or that its crime wasn't too visible; but I can't. I feel it would be ridiculous to try argue the "Most Dangerous City in America" conclusion when everyday people are killed, robbed, carjacked; not to mention the more "minor" things we see or experience like thefts, red light runners, hit and runs, etc. Even recently it seems like every other day there's a shooting on one of our highways - which one would believe would be the safest way to navigate the city. I couldn't in good conscience tell someone "Oh the crime in the city isn't that bad, it's only the unfair ranking that makes us look bad." One look on stlmpdcfs.com and you see the plethora of emergency calls made in the city everyday. It's very sad.
I just as much as everyone else want to see St. Louis makes its way DOWN the list of most dangerous cities in the US, but I want it to happen naturally - by ACTUALLY getting a handle on crime; not adjusting its city boundaries to APPEAR to be having a declining crime rate. Not to be hateful, but the idea that many have that the current stats are "unfair" and things need to be adjusted to make St. Louis look better I believe is a common thread within the city leadership - essentially ignore the actual crime but try to make it look as if things are better than they are. It's no secret that St. Louis has a lot of crime, either with or without any statistics. The priority should be to tackle the crime issue, not the ranking issue. If the crime was made a priority, then naturally St. Louis would start making its way down the ranks. I'm not sure why so often the focus is more on the details of HOW the ranks are done, and not the issue of crime itself. Seems a very lazy approach to tweak the stats to make them look better as opposed to actually tackling crime.
When I first moved to STL from Illinois, I believed that the crime was pretty well confined to the north side. But over time my eyes have really been opened to the horrible shape the city is in and how quickly anyone can be a victim. I'm a middle class, hard working guy that mostly keeps to himself and doesn't look for trouble or associate with anyone of that sort (I also live in one of the safest neighborhoods in the city), yet I was carjacked, my car was used in a drive-by homicide, and car was later torched in north county; not to mention as quiet and safe as my neighborhood is, I've still seen a lot of crimes happen (which says a lot for the city when it's supposed to be one of the safest neighborhoods). Now I'm not naive or believe that these things only happen in St. Louis, because I know every city has this craziness, but it's over the top here, and has been for decades without much help from city leaders. It can be frustrating because something could be done (look at how NYC turned its crime around in the 90s and 2000s - a perfect example), but there seems to be a lot of apathy coming from the city.
I can't remember where I heard this (it must have been a video online), but I believe it was a former St. Louis city police officer addressing St. Louis' position as most dangerous city in America, and he said something along the lines of "St. Louis has DESERVED its place as most dangerous city." I couldn't agree more...
I don't want this to be a totally pessimistic post, because I'm in love with St. Louis and have no plans to leave, and I'm always enjoying everything the city has to offer, but I would also love to see someone come in and really clean up the city. With the rate people are moving into the city now, imagine how it would be if there was a handle on the crime...The floodgates would be opened and people would come pouring in. I hope to see that someday!
To start, I've never understood the reason why so many that live here really seem to believe that the crime rankings for St. Louis are misleading or inaccurate. I know it's argued that since our city size is geographically small and other cities are larger, that it skews the statistics and misleads others into thinking we're more dangerous than we are. That may be true, but not inaccurate, as it's simply using the crime data from within the city limits as it should be. So to me, our crime stats are actually MORE accurate than other cities like Chicago, whose city limits are huge. The smaller the sample area, the more accurate depiction you'll have of that area. If someone wants to know the crime rates of St. Louis, they don't want other cities within that sample; that would dilute it. In the same way if someone wanted to know the crime rates of Chesterfield, they don't want the rates of St. Louis within those.
Having larger city limits doesn't necessarily mean you'll fall down through the crime rankings; Memphis is huge in land area, is spread out into the countryside, and has few suburbs, yet is always pretty high on the most dangerous cities list. You couldn't argue that the rankings make Memphis look bad only because of tight city boundaries - it would have to be crime itself. To add St. Louis County to the St. Louis crime statistics; THAT would be truly misleading, as people would then believe (if it actually caused St. Louis to fall tremendously down the crime rankings) to believe that St. Louis is suddenly "safe" or that progress was truly being made in the city. I'm also not sure what people are wanting to see if we incorporated the county into our crime stats...I couldn't see it making a very big difference, because we would be obtaining also-crime-ridden towns such as Pine Lawn, Jennings, Bellefountaine, Spanish Lake, Wellston, Kinloch, etc. I mean, would we be happy and settle with being number 10 or 12 most dangerous "city" in America?
Now I would be quicker to agree with the viewpoint of the statistics being misleading or inaccurate if I could say that St. Louis a safe city or that its crime wasn't too visible; but I can't. I feel it would be ridiculous to try argue the "Most Dangerous City in America" conclusion when everyday people are killed, robbed, carjacked; not to mention the more "minor" things we see or experience like thefts, red light runners, hit and runs, etc. Even recently it seems like every other day there's a shooting on one of our highways - which one would believe would be the safest way to navigate the city. I couldn't in good conscience tell someone "Oh the crime in the city isn't that bad, it's only the unfair ranking that makes us look bad." One look on stlmpdcfs.com and you see the plethora of emergency calls made in the city everyday. It's very sad.
I just as much as everyone else want to see St. Louis makes its way DOWN the list of most dangerous cities in the US, but I want it to happen naturally - by ACTUALLY getting a handle on crime; not adjusting its city boundaries to APPEAR to be having a declining crime rate. Not to be hateful, but the idea that many have that the current stats are "unfair" and things need to be adjusted to make St. Louis look better I believe is a common thread within the city leadership - essentially ignore the actual crime but try to make it look as if things are better than they are. It's no secret that St. Louis has a lot of crime, either with or without any statistics. The priority should be to tackle the crime issue, not the ranking issue. If the crime was made a priority, then naturally St. Louis would start making its way down the ranks. I'm not sure why so often the focus is more on the details of HOW the ranks are done, and not the issue of crime itself. Seems a very lazy approach to tweak the stats to make them look better as opposed to actually tackling crime.
When I first moved to STL from Illinois, I believed that the crime was pretty well confined to the north side. But over time my eyes have really been opened to the horrible shape the city is in and how quickly anyone can be a victim. I'm a middle class, hard working guy that mostly keeps to himself and doesn't look for trouble or associate with anyone of that sort (I also live in one of the safest neighborhoods in the city), yet I was carjacked, my car was used in a drive-by homicide, and car was later torched in north county; not to mention as quiet and safe as my neighborhood is, I've still seen a lot of crimes happen (which says a lot for the city when it's supposed to be one of the safest neighborhoods). Now I'm not naive or believe that these things only happen in St. Louis, because I know every city has this craziness, but it's over the top here, and has been for decades without much help from city leaders. It can be frustrating because something could be done (look at how NYC turned its crime around in the 90s and 2000s - a perfect example), but there seems to be a lot of apathy coming from the city.
I can't remember where I heard this (it must have been a video online), but I believe it was a former St. Louis city police officer addressing St. Louis' position as most dangerous city in America, and he said something along the lines of "St. Louis has DESERVED its place as most dangerous city." I couldn't agree more...
I don't want this to be a totally pessimistic post, because I'm in love with St. Louis and have no plans to leave, and I'm always enjoying everything the city has to offer, but I would also love to see someone come in and really clean up the city. With the rate people are moving into the city now, imagine how it would be if there was a handle on the crime...The floodgates would be opened and people would come pouring in. I hope to see that someday!
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yikes... based on gary kreie's past analyses i thought the metro ranked quite a bit lower than 5. that's pathetic.gone corporate wrote: ↑Dec 17, 2019The New York Times has an article on the Nature of Misleading Crime Stats in STL, how what's often reported reflects only the City.
It's a great article presenting nationally what we have been saying for years: The reporting of STL's crime stats has historically been inaccurate as they've focused only on the City of STL, and that the STL Metro Area's crime stats do not rank us as the most violent city in the US. Yes, we need to keep fighting crime in the City, as too many people continue to die, but overall we're a lot safer than the rest of the country recognizes.