While this is true, the Historic restrictions are only in place for 5 years. After that time has passed, the owner can do as they like with the property.urbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 07, 2019
As for the long-term thinking, the NPS does not want anything over ~18' in height between the Byco building and the back of the Alamo Drafthouse along FPA.
Only 5 years? That's surprising.stlnative wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019While this is true, the Historic restrictions are only in place for 5 years. After that time has passed, the owner can do as they like with the property.urbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 07, 2019
As for the long-term thinking, the NPS does not want anything over ~18' in height between the Byco building and the back of the Alamo Drafthouse along FPA.
It's moot though since the garage can't be built upon, and they aren't going to demolish it anytime soon.
^ Yes, nothing might happen in five years but if your focus on phase II is along Vande it will probably take that long to fill complete and fill the space just in time to look at phase III where the prefab parking garage went up. Which will probably the timeline it takes for an at grade FPP and Grand Ave to happen, enough demand for a serious look at property fronting Ikea as well as a pedestrian crossing from Foundry to Armory (with Armory phase II underway).
Yes, not ideal at the moment but I think in the long run their is real possibility of the landscape changing once you get past the 5 year restriction and enough demand that Foundry is looking how to get to phase III & IV
Yes, not ideal at the moment but I think in the long run their is real possibility of the landscape changing once you get past the 5 year restriction and enough demand that Foundry is looking how to get to phase III & IV
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^You know, I think you might be right on the money here. If they can build new on the prefab parking in five years' time, then maybe they'd consider doing so, and maybe that's been the plan for some time.
Perhaps they likely need to establish critical mass at the Foundry ahead of time in order to better secure future funding for a Phase 3, and ready parking certainly would help out. Maybe they're also curious about ancillary development - especially transportation infrastructure. You mentioned the Grand/FPP exchange, which I do hope is redone soon as well. There's also the Choteau Greenway and the potential return of the Spring Street viaduct for Greenway-related traffic (i.e. not cars). I've always thought that the Foundry could really capitalize on building its parking on the open lots where Spring meets 64/40; structured parking would work great here, and even help to deaden the highway traffic noise at the Foundry itself. So, perhaps the Lawrence Group is considering their options for how to do a Phase 3 that could include replacing the being-built structured parking close to FPP with new parking south next to the highway, once they have a better understanding of what the future holds for this infrastructure - the Grand/FPP exchange, pedestrian access over 64/40 to the Armory site (and maybe a new viaduct), and the Choteau Greenway's construction - and can then build new structured parking there in alignment with developing plans. They do that, then they maybe can justify adding more retail where the current garage is - and be free from the five-year burden.
Perhaps they likely need to establish critical mass at the Foundry ahead of time in order to better secure future funding for a Phase 3, and ready parking certainly would help out. Maybe they're also curious about ancillary development - especially transportation infrastructure. You mentioned the Grand/FPP exchange, which I do hope is redone soon as well. There's also the Choteau Greenway and the potential return of the Spring Street viaduct for Greenway-related traffic (i.e. not cars). I've always thought that the Foundry could really capitalize on building its parking on the open lots where Spring meets 64/40; structured parking would work great here, and even help to deaden the highway traffic noise at the Foundry itself. So, perhaps the Lawrence Group is considering their options for how to do a Phase 3 that could include replacing the being-built structured parking close to FPP with new parking south next to the highway, once they have a better understanding of what the future holds for this infrastructure - the Grand/FPP exchange, pedestrian access over 64/40 to the Armory site (and maybe a new viaduct), and the Choteau Greenway's construction - and can then build new structured parking there in alignment with developing plans. They do that, then they maybe can justify adding more retail where the current garage is - and be free from the five-year burden.
A 5-year expiration of NPS historic preservation requirements does not make any sense, but if that is correct, then that's all the more reason ^2 that they should have put surface parking along Forest Park Ave. instead of building a garage there.stlnative:While this is true, the Historic restrictions are only in place for 5 years. After that time has passed, the owner can do as they like with the property.urbanitas wrote:
As for the long-term thinking, the NPS does not want anything over ~18' in height between the Byco building and the back of the Alamo Drafthouse along FPA.
^dredger wrote: ↑Dec 10, 2019^ Yes, nothing might happen in five years but if your focus on phase II is along Vande it will probably take that long to fill complete and fill the space just in time to look at phase III where the prefab parking garage went up. Which will probably the timeline it takes for an at grade FPP and Grand Ave to happen, enough demand for a serious look at property fronting Ikea as well as a pedestrian crossing from Foundry to Armory (with Armory phase II underway).
Yes, not ideal at the moment but I think in the long run their is real possibility of the landscape changing once you get past the 5 year restriction and enough demand that Foundry is looking how to get to phase III & IV
They can't build on top of the precast garage, and the 600' long garage and new retail buildings take up all of the space between FPA and the historic Foundry buildings...so are you suggesting they might demolish the new garage to build phase III?
I hope that if you ever come to this development, that you drive your car and park in this parking garage lolurbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 11, 2019A 5-year expiration of NPS historic preservation requirements does not make any sense, but if that is correct, then that's all the more reason ^2 that they should have put surface parking along Forest Park Ave. instead of building a garage there.stlnative:While this is true, the Historic restrictions are only in place for 5 years. After that time has passed, the owner can do as they like with the property.urbanitas wrote:
As for the long-term thinking, the NPS does not want anything over ~18' in height between the Byco building and the back of the Alamo Drafthouse along FPA.
Yes, but obviously in the long term and maybe wishful thinking but if I understand their property holdings I could see them entertaining tearing down parking garage or partial tear down for future phase(s) - say phase IV. Phase II being current plans/rendering of additional office/commercial space and Phase III being on the east of the Foundry where they recently bought some more properties if not mistaken.urbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 12, 2019^dredger wrote: ↑Dec 10, 2019^ Yes, nothing might happen in five years but if your focus on phase II is along Vande it will probably take that long to fill complete and fill the space just in time to look at phase III where the prefab parking garage went up. Which will probably the timeline it takes for an at grade FPP and Grand Ave to happen, enough demand for a serious look at property fronting Ikea as well as a pedestrian crossing from Foundry to Armory (with Armory phase II underway).
Yes, not ideal at the moment but I think in the long run their is real possibility of the landscape changing once you get past the 5 year restriction and enough demand that Foundry is looking how to get to phase III & IV
They can't build on top of the precast garage, and the 600' long garage and new retail buildings take up all of the space between FPA and the historic Foundry buildings...so are you suggesting they might demolish the new garage to build phase III?
Would it be better and more encouraging if they just went for a good old surface lot? Yes in terms of future development but not sure if it was required spaces by ordinance and or the developer feeling the need will be there once they open or combination of both. Garage being full might indicate a successful Foundry which also gives more weight for future phases.
In hindsight, the new and expanding CORTEX Garage next to metrolink and along with trail/trestle would be argument that their is sufficient parking available in the arear and therefore surface lot would have been sufficient but just don't know the details let alone the mind numbing parking ordinances that seem to never to solve things. Finally, I only got partial memory of the topography of the site, I think the property sloped downward from FPA to Freeway so not sure how that would work with surface parking lot.
Would I love to see a developer and financers put enough faith into a project that structured garage is built to be built on one of these days. I understand the business case for pre fab and at the end of the day they are convincing bankers to give them money. A prefab garage is the immediate and cheapest to be built after a surface lot. I still think the folks the built and developed the Park Pacific in downtown made a huge mistake by not following through with their original plans of a second phase tower on top of the parking garage they built next to old MoPac building. Instead, settled for cheaper prefab parking structure and no future phase.
dredger wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2019Yes, but obviously in the long term and maybe wishful thinking but if I understand their property holdings I could see them entertaining tearing down parking garage or partial tear down for future phase(s) - say phase IV. Phase II being current plans/rendering of additional office/commercial space and Phase III being on the east of the Foundry where they recently bought some more properties if not mistaken.
Would it be better and more encouraging if they just went for a good old surface lot? Yes in terms of future development but not sure if it was required spaces by ordinance and or the developer feeling the need will be there once they open or combination of both. Garage being full might indicate a successful Foundry which also gives more weight for future phases.
In hindsight, the new and expanding CORTEX Garage next to metrolink and along with trail/trestle would be argument that their is sufficient parking available in the arear and therefore surface lot would have been sufficient but just don't know the details let alone the mind numbing parking ordinances that seem to never to solve things. Finally, I only got partial memory of the topography of the site, I think the property sloped downward from FPA to Freeway so not sure how that would work with surface parking lot.
Would I love to see a developer and financers put enough faith into a project that structured garage is built to be built on one of these days. I understand the business case for pre fab and at the end of the day they are convincing bankers to give them money. A prefab garage is the immediate and cheapest to be built after a surface lot. I still think the folks the built and developed the Park Pacific in downtown made a huge mistake by not following through with their original plans of a second phase tower on top of the parking garage they built next to old MoPac building. Instead, settled for cheaper prefab parking structure and no future phase.
Aerial view of the Foundry site. There is plenty of room for a large 5-story parking garage on the west side of this site, south of Crescent Electric, and plenty of space left over for Phase II mixed-use buildings along Vandeventer to screen it. They could have had their large garage and a large surface parking lot along FPA for their parking needs, with the latter left available for future mixed-use construction and an active streetscape on FPA. The sloped site could have been easily addressed, as they had to excavate and build a 2-story retaining wall along FPA for their new garage as it is.
I've seen a whole lot of "reasons" given why they went with an elevated precast parking structure along FPA, and they all just seem to be deflections from the one reason that does make sense - the reason implied by Steve Smith - and that is: security.
Hows this for a reason why that wasn't a viable option for a garage location. That property isn't controlled by Steve Smith.
Well, aren't you coy. Please tell me then, who controlled it? Uh huh.stlnative wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2019Hows this for a reason why that wasn't a viable option for a garage location. That property isn't controlled by Steve Smith.
That's what's so great about this forum; the entire history of a project from beginning to end in one place. A quick scan of the first three pages of this thread, from early 2016 (2 years before demolition even started), shows why that claim is bogus.
Brad Beracha of BaiKu Sushi Lounge in Midtown is working with the Lawrence Group as director of culinary services for the project.
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"We're looking at it becoming an iconic destination for people heading to the ball game and to the Arch from the county. We are wanting to create a very secure safe space where people can park their car, take their stroller out, come inside and have multiple things they’re able to do within the City Foundry – it’s not just a run in, run out kind of place." Feast Mag - 7/8/16
City Foundry STL will have access to Great Rivers Greenway's planned trestle trail, as well as two Metrolink stations. Access to public transportation will make it more feasible to be car-free here. STL Mag - 11/7/16
Retailers would be major brands without a local presence that want locations outside of malls or big box developments, Smith said. “We’re not going to be able to get this thing financed with local retailers.” P-D - 12/8/16
But the Lawrence Group has scrapped a 24-story apartment building that was planned for the second phase in order to maintain a key component of the financing. “The historic (preservation) folks basically came in and said you can’t build a high-rise residential and use historic tax credits,” said Bill Kuehling, a Thompson Coburn attorney representing the Lawrence Group.
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The second phase would include a 45,000-square-foot space for a movie theater and restaurant, two five-story office buildings with about 130,000 square feet and a 400-car parking garage. Construction is expected to begin in the spring and conclude in the fall of 2019.
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The TIF request for this phase represents about 18 percent of project costs, above the city’s unofficial ceiling of 15 percent. The developers said asking rent would be too high without the incentive, which will primarily help offset parking garage costs. Without free parking, Lawrence Group officials worry that they won’t be able to draw enough traffic to support the retailers. “If you have to pay for parking, it’s not going to work,” said Sean McKessy, the Lawrence Group’s director of finance. - P-D - 7/16/17
Lawrence Group will release the retail and office tenants over the next three months, with construction starting after that, Smith said. In addition, Lawrence Group will coordinate with Great Rivers Greenway about Chouteau Greenway, a planned greenway connecting downtown to Forest Park, that is expected to be built adjacent to City Foundry. - BJ - 1/24/18
Traditionally, Smith explains, shopping centers were anchored by department stores, which drove the traffic to the rest of the center or shopping mall. “But that model is changing," he says. "The new model is designed around local, authentic, original food—most of it fast-casual—which attracts the current generation. It’s something you can’t get on the internet and you can’t transact through Amazon.”
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Safety and security were prime concerns while planning the complex. “The primary access is off Vandeventer, from the same access point as IKEA," Smith says. "We own the street that leads into the development, and we control the 1,000 parking spaces within, all above grade... I compare it to IKEA. There, people know they’ll be on a private lot and that it’s secure and well-lit. In other areas of the city, you typically have to cross a public way to get to your destination. We’ve taken that out of the equation.” - STL Mag - 1/24/18
The building across Vandeventer Avenue from Ikea will start coming down in a few weeks to make way for construction on the much-anticipated City Foundry project.
Developer Steve Smith of the Lawrence Group said he had the site at 242 South Vandeventer under contract from a group that includes the Cortex tech district to the west. Lawrence Group’s plans call for it to eventually house three new office buildings to complement the burgeoning tech district.
“We’re working with (Cortex) as part of the master plan,” Smith said. “We want to develop office buildings as part of that site. ...The tract soon to be cleared could host as many as three built-to-suit office buildings, Smith said, with somewhere around 350,000 square feet of total space. He said there was a “reasonable chance” construction could start on one of those offices before the first phase started opening in mid-2019. - P-D - 1/13/18
The $187 million CityFoundry STL development in Midtown has signed leases with two lead office tenants: digital publishing and technology firm Multiply and DNA tech company Orion Genomics. Combined, the two companies will lease 30,000 square feet of space for almost 100 employees...P-D - 5/17/18
Environmental remediation on Phase 2, which covers four acres, began in June. The second phase will offer three new commercial buildings and a parking structure. Lawrence Group, the developer, partnered with the Cortex Innovation Community and is marketing this new phase to technology firms. WEW - 7/25/18
urbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 14, 2019Well, aren't you coy. Please tell me then, who controlled it? Uh huh.stlnative wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2019Hows this for a reason why that wasn't a viable option for a garage location. That property isn't controlled by Steve Smith.
That's what's so great about this forum; the entire history of a project from beginning to end in one place. A quick scan of the first three pages of this thread, from early 2016 (2 years before demolition even started), shows why that claim is bogus.
Not controlled as in previously, controls. SLU owns that parcel. Fopa was able to get an easement for the road that bisecets it.
That's what's so great about publicly available parcel information. A quick address search of that plot of land shows that it's not controlled by Steve Smith or FoPa Partners.
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Urbanitas' big quote list does bring up something both pertinent and topical to the parking garage issue...
With that, I'm damn glad the Foundry STL is going to offer free parking, even if that garage view from Forest Park Parkway kind of sucks.
Something very particular to STL is that people really, really do not want to pay for parking. In this City, having to pay to park is anathema to a development's success if it relies on retail consumers. We all know how people b**** about parking in Downtown, saying there's no place to park, but garages usually have excess capacity. No one wants to consider paying the premium for a garage. If curb parking isn't there, people think there is none. I believe there's a direct correlation between the failures of both St. Louis Centre and Union Station as retail spots with how both required retail consumers to have to pay for parking. When there's a substitute product in STL that doesn't require paying for parking (i.e. the Galleria), they'll win the customer, even if their products are sold at higher costs. Retail sites with free parking and products at premium pricing are readily preferred over retail sites with premium parking and products at standard pricing.The TIF request for this phase represents about 18 percent of project costs, above the city’s unofficial ceiling of 15 percent. The developers said asking rent would be too high without the incentive, which will primarily help offset parking garage costs. Without free parking, Lawrence Group officials worry that they won’t be able to draw enough traffic to support the retailers. “If you have to pay for parking, it’s not going to work,” said Sean McKessy, the Lawrence Group’s director of finance. - P-D - 7/16/17
With that, I'm damn glad the Foundry STL is going to offer free parking, even if that garage view from Forest Park Parkway kind of sucks.
In Framer's pic, it looks to me that there is just a new, average width sidewalk, but not a multi-use greenway path, or room for one based on how the sidewalk zig-zags as well as the location of the bump-out.framer wrote: ↑Dec 06, 2019Stupid fortress wall along Forest Park Blvd. I'm sure landscaping will improve the look, but damn, this is disappointing.
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^ yeah, that's what i'm seeing too. thought maybe i was just missing something.
LOL. Cute. Then your post above doesn't make any sense. You said it "WASN"T a viable option for a garage location", and that a "reason" (is that) "it ISN"T controlled by Steve Smith".stlnative wrote: ↑Dec 14, 2019Not controlled as in previously, controls. SLU owns that parcel. Fopa was able to get an easement for the road that bisecets it.urbanitas wrote: ↑Dec 14, 2019Well, aren't you coy. Please tell me then, who controlled it? Uh huh.stlnative wrote: ↑Dec 13, 2019Hows this for a reason why that wasn't a viable option for a garage location. That property isn't controlled by Steve Smith.
That's what's so great about this forum; the entire history of a project from beginning to end in one place. A quick scan of the first three pages of this thread, from early 2016 (2 years before demolition even started), shows why that claim is bogus.
That's what's so great about publicly available parcel information. A quick address search of that plot of land shows that it's not controlled by Steve Smith or FoPa Partners.
So, explain: how does the fact that SLU bought the property from Cortex in June of 2019 become a reason why that wasn't a viable garage location in 2016-2018? You do realize that Steve Smith proposed office buildings, retail space, and yes, a garage, on that same parcel, right? So none of his proposals for future phases on that parcel were viable?
Is this an indirect way of saying that all of the much-touted future phases of City Foundry along Vandeventer are dead?
I said "widening the sidewalk", but should have said widening the setback I guess. That garage wall is in line with the facade of the Byco building, and Forest Park Ave. was previously three lanes, plus a parking lane, here, so again, you can see from Framer's picture they have removed an entire lane of eastbound FPA and moved the curb out. That curb extension would have been in the middle of the street otherwise. I can't imagine what else all of that space between the sidewalk and the curb would be if not the greenway.Tim wrote: ↑Dec 16, 2019In Framer's pic, it looks to me that there is just a new, average width sidewalk, but not a multi-use greenway path, or room for one based on how the sidewalk zig-zags as well as the location of the bump-out.framer wrote: ↑Dec 06, 2019Stupid fortress wall along Forest Park Blvd. I'm sure landscaping will improve the look, but damn, this is disappointing.
Courtesy of Framer
^ I hope you're right, and that's certainly what should be done with all that new space they just obtained by reducing the lane count. But, with how the sidewalk juts out from the wall where the garage-entrance-cross-walk is located, I don't understand how the greenway would work here now. My bet, unfortunately, is that they're just going to landscape that whole area between the wall/sidewalk and the former 3rd lane/new drop-off area. The jutting out of the sidewalk at the cross-walk makes sense from a pedestrian safety perspective (so drivers exiting the garage can see them better), but it looks like it messes up the opportunity to have an adjacent greenway path here, unless they are going to share the same narrow crosswalk, which I don't think they would necessarily do. We shall see soon enough!
The crosswalk and sidewalk bump out and ramp is presumably also there for the Byco / Fresh Thyme building, just off of the picture to the left. There must be a drop off / curbside pickup lane in front of the Fresh Thyme. It appears to me that the sidewalk and greenway (if that is what it is) don't share the crosswalk, the greenway merely moves outward, following the track of the sidewalk. You see the half-circle curb extension at the middle right edge of the picture? I think that is there to protect the edge of the greenway. You are right that this is a far from ideal situation for a greenway, along a busy speedway, with two busy garage entrances and a pickup lane intersecting it...Tim wrote: ↑Dec 17, 2019^ I hope you're right, and that's certainly what should be done with all that new space they just obtained by reducing the lane count. But, with how the sidewalk juts out from the wall where the garage-entrance-cross-walk is located, I don't understand how the greenway would work here now. My bet, unfortunately, is that they're just going to landscape that whole area between the wall/sidewalk and the former 3rd lane/new drop-off area. The jutting out of the sidewalk at the cross-walk makes sense from a pedestrian safety perspective (so drivers exiting the garage can see them better), but it looks like it messes up the opportunity to have an adjacent greenway path here, unless they are going to share the same narrow crosswalk, which I don't think they would necessarily do. We shall see soon enough!
Despite the numerous criticisms to be had with this project, I look forward to visiting this place. This will be something that will attract people from all over the City and Region. The garage wall along Forest Park is depressing, but this entire development certainly has more character and better design than what Pace Properties planned here. I just hope we get some retailers here. This could be a hit for nearby residents and college students if we get some stores in here. Preferably bring in some outside retailers that are new to the region or allow local companies to expand here.
I can't wait to bring my friends down here to check this place out. Hopefully, the Greenway connection to the Armory is completed in the next year or so, it would make getting to this place on MetroLink much easier.
It will be interesting to see how future phases go here. If I were Steve Smith, I would try to put residential on the parcel he just bought to the East of Spring. Along Vandeventer, put the office building.
These are from the construction cameras. Still a lot of work to do, but it looks way better than it once did.
Looking East...
Looking South...
Looking Southwest...
Looking West...
I can't wait to bring my friends down here to check this place out. Hopefully, the Greenway connection to the Armory is completed in the next year or so, it would make getting to this place on MetroLink much easier.
It will be interesting to see how future phases go here. If I were Steve Smith, I would try to put residential on the parcel he just bought to the East of Spring. Along Vandeventer, put the office building.
These are from the construction cameras. Still a lot of work to do, but it looks way better than it once did.
Looking East...
Looking South...
Looking Southwest...
Looking West...
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I also rather enjoy the way headlights on the upper deck reflect off the glass at night. That's made a nice visual addition. I hope it's entirely successful. 
