urbanSTL

Only two things could save this thing. Make it free. Make it a booze bus. Should run until 1am, at least, every night.

And only one real change will make this thing worth a damn. Run it down Delmar to Euclid. 

trolley folly
Its all but done put a stake in it 

I love this new mike guy. He's really adding some quality conversation to this site. 

Loop Tolley generates just $32,456 in fares in 11 months
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 32a4a154b1

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Oct 10, 2019

I am so sick of hearing the negatives about this system.  I love this trolley system and it looks great and a fun attraction.  That is what it is an ATTRACTION!

And you’re going to keep being sick because as long as this thing is running it’s going to continue being a running joke.

matguy70 wrote:I am so sick of hearing the negatives about this system.  I love this trolley system and it looks great and a fun attraction.  That is what it is an ATTRACTION!

I’m also a big fan and think of it as an attraction/amenity. Nonetheless, it’s reasonable to hope/wish that it attracts more than the 15,000 per annum pace that it’s setting.

Yeah, I love the trolley too, but jeez; something's gotta change. 

I want to see the Delmar trolley succeed. I hate hearing negative news about it, though some can say the reasons why ridership is low is because it only runs 4 days a week, fares/no integration with Metro and wait times can be long when only one streetcar is running during the day.

I rode it last year and wrote a review on it https://allwheelsforward.com/delmar-loop-trolley

I spoke with an individual that is on the trolley board, or committee, or whatever they call it, and he seemed to express optimism that the trolley would find more ridership in Year 2.

There are several ideas being floated around.

I expressed that it would be nice to have Metro and the trolley on the same fare system.

He let me know that's one of the many ideas being floated around, but made a point to say it wasn't imminent.

Basically, nothing we don't already know, but he is pretty upbeat about the trolley and its future.

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Oct 10, 2019

I am so sick of hearing the negatives about this system.  I love this trolley system and it looks great and a fun attraction.  That is what it is an ATTRACTION!

I like it too and think it looks cool but it's an attraction that got millions of dollars in federal transit funding and it's not unreasonable to at least expect it to make enough money to sustain itself.

Additionally, the raised platforms along the Loop are already beat to hell and look like sh*t. Anything built in St. Louis will have cars plowed into it regularly.

"it's an attraction that got millions of dollars in federal transit funding and it's not unreasonable to at least expect it to make enough money to sustain itself."
Someone one finally said it !! THANK YOU! 

hebeters2 wrote:"it's not unreasonable to at least expect it to make enough money to sustain itself."
Someone one finally said it !! THANK YOU! 

Actually that is an unreasonable expectation. The San Francisco cable cars are an attraction, they don’t make enough money to sustain themselves. Same goes for the streetcars in Little Rock, El Paso, Memphis and Tampa (which started offering free service in October). Each are as much, if not more, attraction than transit.

These things are designed and operated as civic amenities not profit centers.




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wabash wrote: ↑

Oct 11, 2019

hebeters2 wrote:"it's not unreasonable to at least expect it to make enough money to sustain itself."
Someone one finally said it !! THANK YOU! 

Actually that is an unreasonable expectation. The San Francisco cable cars are an attraction, they don’t make enough money to sustain themselves. Same goes for the streetcars in Little Rock, El Paso, Memphis and Tampa (which started offering free service in October). 

The Kansas City Streetcar generated $0 is revenue in the last 11 months. Tampa's streetcar recently started generating $0 in revenue, they increased frequency, and ridership tripled. 
Also, since we're on the topic of transportation and revenue, here's a list of other mass transit systems the run at a deficit: 
St. Louis Metro, RIdeKC, Chicago's CTA, the New York Subway / MTA, the London Tube, Paris Metro, Tokyo Metro, and every other regional transit network on this planet except Hong Kong and Singapore. 

^This is the wrong thread for discussing mass transit though. That’s a completely different beast than heritage cable/streetcars.


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Need to look at the economic impact of its existence, specifically the increase of sales for the retailers along the line.  Projecting that increase if it were free could justify free service.  KC's retail revenue along their line jumped significantly and helped with the funding partly via TDD sales tax.

Loop trolley is not nearly utilitarian enough to justify the $2 price tag in nearly any situation. Make it free and ridership will explode and drastically improve the value the trolley has to the area.

Plus the trolley would run smoother and faster when the driver doesn’t have to get out at every other stop to help people buy tickets.




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allow me to clarify. i wasn't saying that actual transit should pay for itself. but the loop trolley is not actual transit. it's a theme park ride that wasted funding that could have been used for actual transit. i like the trolley and i want it to succeed, but as a theme park ride i feel that it should sustain itself in one way or another, at least until it is better integrated with transit and/or extended so that it actually serves a purpose.

on a related note, is the poor trolley performance playing a role in delaying Joe's Magic Mini Golf? It was supposed to open Fall of this year, I believe.

hobo digitale wrote: ↑

Oct 11, 2019

Need to look at the economic impact of its existence, specifically the increase of sales for the retailers along the line.  Projecting that increase if it were free could justify free service.  KC's retail revenue along their line jumped significantly and helped with the funding partly via TDD sales tax.

actually, i don't even think increasing sales for a handful of private businesses along a short commercial corridor is sufficient to justify public funding for a project like the trolley. true transit benefits the economy as a byproduct of getting people where they need to go (home, work, school, shopping, etc.).

Somehow the ride has to be cost-free with increased frequency.  Not sure who pays for the operation now.  $32 K isn't going to cover much, that's for sure.