urbanSTL

quincunx wrote:Still three buildings afaik. I think the kiss 'n ride will be 2 stories. They said there's too much stuff underground there to build much.

2 floors are better than nothing. At least the rest has appeared to grow some. Debaliviere will become a very interesting place over the next decade. The numerous parking lots, if built on, will radically reshape this street. I can't wait to see what else happens.

STLEnginerd wrote:Incidentally if you draw a line from the Art Museum down the center of the Grand Basin the line intersects with the metro link surface lot.  There is literally no more amazing view of forest park than a high-rise view from that spot.  The view from One Hundred is just OK compared to this one.

Personally i wouldn't settle for less than 20 stories on that lot.  The rest is very nice though.

20 stories would be something else, but at least 7 will give some great views of the park. To your point, the NE corner of Pershing and DeBaliviere is prime for redevelopment and, if this project is a success, could definitely see something 10 stories or taller with the same line of sight you noted.

DeBaliviere is about to boom.


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The NE corner of Pershing / Debaliviere has been for sale for several years.  The last I saw they were asking almost $1 million for the "Fully equipped restaurant with huge patio" and "Big parking lot with 33 spaces".  I'm sure their price will be going up once this project starts rising.

For fun, I took a couple of screenshots in Google Earth from about 150 feet above grade. So, this would be the view from about the 15th floor, or from the rooftop of a 15-floor building.

The views from a much shorter building definitely won't be bad either, given Art Hill's elevation, as well as the height of the buildings in the CWE, which will still extend over the tree line. But taller is definitely nicer!

pattimagee wrote: I couldn't agree more about Debaliviere, but I would say that for all of the locations touching Forest Park. That amenity is second to none, which makes it sad its not easier to get across 64 from the south side....

I think the south side just needs to be thought of differently by reconnecting the south side of Highland, Forest Park Community College (add parking structure and turn over some existing surface lot property for infill), and charter school/science via a through street/blvd with a well placed pedestrian bridge or two for access to Forest Park.  In other words, not so much about facing Forest Park but making dogtown and existing area bounded by Hampton, Manchester, and Kingshighway more ameanable to development.    Just wish I could think of the street of the south side of Highland that I'm thinking of 

To get really into it, a plan to daylight the underground culvert and restore part of the Des Peres creek.  However, not sure what structure are above the area of where the old creek once flowed.  Talk about a science, nature restoration project for the science center to incorporate

Tim wrote: For fun, I took a couple of screenshots in Google Earth from about 150 feet above grade. So, this would be the view from about the 15th floor, or from the rooftop of a 15-floor building.

The views from a much shorter building definitely won't be bad either, given Art Hill's elevation, as well as the height of the buildings in the CWE, which will still extend over the tree line. But taller is definitely nicer!

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02.JPG

I used to live in a six-story building on Pershing, which you can see in the first photo. The views from the top floor were actually pretty good, so anything taller than that would have some great views to the north and south.

From the meeting tonight...
- Height ranges from 2 to 7-stories
- 300 units
- 445 parking spaces
- Construction start in early Q1 2020
- TIF will be requested
- Trivers and HOK are the Architects

NIMBYs were mostly concerned about traffic.

How big a TIF?
Will they retain "free" Metrolink parking?
Is ped access from 5700 Pershing to Metrolink station added?
Will the bus stop for southbound Hampton be moved further away from the Metrolink station?
Will crosswalk on north side of Pershing and DeB be restored?
What of current businesses in the strip mall?
Retail sq ft?
Store fronts facing DeGiverville?
How will trash removal and biz deliveries work?

quincunx wrote:How big a TIF?
Will they retain "free" Metrolink parking?
Is ped access from 5700 Pershing to Metrolink station added?
Will the bus stop for southbound Hampton be moved further away from the Metrolink station?
Will crosswalk on north side of Pershing and DeB be restored?
What of current businesses in the strip mall?
Retail sq ft?
Store fronts facing DeGiverville?
How will trash removal and biz deliveries work?

1. Jeff said the TIF is determined by the city. The city puts in financial information of the developer and spits out a number. Seems complicated but he says that they’ll see how much the city comes up with.
2. MetroLink parking will be Free.
3. Not sure. The BiState Director was there and couldn’t answer that.
4. the bus stop will be in a new area close to the station. Basically, it will be in a little dip in the street to allow passing cars to go by.
5. Not sure about the crosswalk. Wasn’t mentioned.
6. Current businesses can come back but Jeff said that rent will be higher, so it’s recommended that some of those businesses go to Pershing’s empty storefronts.
7. Retail SF not talked about.
8. Store fronts will face a plaza between the two buildings. It’s practically where DeGilverville would be if it were extended to Debaliviere.
9. Trash removal was a question by residents of the area, but no specified answer was given. The same goes for Business Delivery.

Video of meeting from Ald Hubbard

quincunx wrote:

chriss752 wrote: 4. the bus stop will be in a new area close to the station. Basically, it will be in a little dip in the street to allow passing cars to go by.

Further away from the station than it is now, currect? The last iteration of the plan I saw had it further away. Just annoying for everone making transfers. Like they did at Grand putting the elevators and stairs farther from the platform than they should be if minimizing transfer time was top priority.

It seems a little bit further.

Ok yes still annoyingly farther than it is now.

And cars will be able to box the bus in.

quincunx wrote:From the video it kind of sounded like they're considerin closing the west entrance to the DeB station. Is that what you heard?

I remember them saying that they wanted to reduce the amount of entrances to the station so security/police can be focused in a specific area. But for closing the West entrance, I don’t recall. Maybe I couldn’t hear that part.

That's the only other entrance. If they do that then moving the bus stop up the street encourages ppl to use the crosswalk there.

And the advantage of entering the station through the west side is dimminished by not being able to cut through the parking lot. So for me it won't make much difference and the relocation of the bus stop will be better, provided drivers don't box it in. For ppl transfering, it's wasting their time.

Lots of room for improvement on the bus stop, sidewalk and parking layout, but great to see this moving forward.

It looks like a slight rejiggering moving the bus stop closer to the station, allowing more space for parallel parking (angled parking with cars backing onto DeBaliviere seems like a terrible idea), and a more clear and linear sidewalk wouldn’t effect the overall design of the actual building very much at all.

Am I missing something or is it viewed as a legit complaint about a massive TOD development that the bus shelter is being moved approximately 200 feet from the current spot?

Yeah you are missing something, that's 200 extra feet to walk for transit users when the bus only comes about every 30 minutes. There's no logical reason to do that, it's unnecessary. 

If it's TOD transit should be convenient! Also, I don't think anyone on here is suggesting cancelling the development over this. 

Fair enough. I guess the definition of convenience can be debated.

Interesting that they want to put the terraces on the taller building facing north, rather than towards the park.