That was fun to read.
Bizarre logic there from that one.
Condo residents are categorically more stable and settled than apartment residents, or even suburbanites in for the CWE nightlife. A new high rise will increase stability in the neighborhood, reduce vandalism (not that there is much in the CWE), and reduce the number of people out causing trouble.
Look what's happend to Washington avenue -- 10 years ago it was all nightclubs and there was (relatively) more crime. Stable people moved in to new condos on Washington -- property value went up, crime went down, and the bars and nightlife moved out. Sorry dude, but your argument fails.
As for traffic: Lindell is a lot easier to deal with than 94 in St. Charles county. Even Kingshighway is easier -- although it irritates me when people (no doubt suburbans) can't figure out which lane to get in to get on WB 40, and slow everyone else down.
Besides, if you're family has owned their property for more than 100 years or whatever, then I'm sure some ancestor spoke of the horse and buggy days. As busy as the CWE would have been back then, I'm sure the street smelled great. Why don't you go back to that?
Condo residents are categorically more stable and settled than apartment residents, or even suburbanites in for the CWE nightlife. A new high rise will increase stability in the neighborhood, reduce vandalism (not that there is much in the CWE), and reduce the number of people out causing trouble.
Look what's happend to Washington avenue -- 10 years ago it was all nightclubs and there was (relatively) more crime. Stable people moved in to new condos on Washington -- property value went up, crime went down, and the bars and nightlife moved out. Sorry dude, but your argument fails.
As for traffic: Lindell is a lot easier to deal with than 94 in St. Charles county. Even Kingshighway is easier -- although it irritates me when people (no doubt suburbans) can't figure out which lane to get in to get on WB 40, and slow everyone else down.
Besides, if you're family has owned their property for more than 100 years or whatever, then I'm sure some ancestor spoke of the horse and buggy days. As busy as the CWE would have been back then, I'm sure the street smelled great. Why don't you go back to that?
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Tysalpha wrote:Condo residents are categorically more stable and settled than apartment residents, or even suburbanites in for the CWE nightlife. A new high rise will increase stability in the neighborhood, reduce vandalism (not that there is much in the CWE), and reduce the number of people out causing trouble.
I agree. I guess some have forgotten the 'strength in numbers' cliche? If anything, the likelihood of nuisance crimes in the immediate area would decrease once the condo tower is fully occupied. Like other homeowners in the neighborhood, the condo dwellers will have an investment to protect, and they're likely to be every bit as vigilant and dedicated to maintaining the high quality of life in the CWE.
Increased traffic is an inevitable byproduct of progress throughout the neighborhood. Do members of this group object to the improvements made in Maryland Plaza, since they are certain to increase traffic? Did they object to the Schalfly Library or the Chase redevelopment, since they ultimately led to more traffic? Or can we simply accept that more traffic is a sign of the area's prosperity, and look to common sense solutions to make traffic flow more efficiently?
I would suggest (1) paying close attention to parking garage and delivery access points, (2) the consideration of adding left turn arrows to the traffic signals at Lindell and Euclid, and (3) improving pedestrian safety with timed crosswalk signals. The latter two are minor steps that could go a long way toward improving traffic flow without needlessly altering or scrubbing a project where the benefits far outweigh any concerns IMHO.
Finally, I am perplexed as to why anyone in Saint Louis wouldn't welcome investment from out-of-town developers. In the city proper, construction activity is at record levels and the population is growing for the first time in a half-century.
If anything, we should do even more to lure out-of-town developers, to make it clear that Saint Louis is thriving and a great place in which to do business. Parochialism has held our city and region back for many years- and it's myopic and misguided to think that we can prosper while turning our backs on those businesses willing to bring high-quality developments to our city (regardless of where their headquarters is located- or the high school that the CEO attended).
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And really, what is the traffic impact caused by the relatively small influx of new residents? It's not as if Opus is proposing its own version of the Brentwood Promenade at Lindell and Euclid, this is a residential development. Perhaps during the morning and evening rush when people are leaving for and returning from work, there will be additional cars on the roads, but the rest of the time, I can't imagine that it will be constant gridlock or anything. Heck, it will probably even appeal to doctors at BJC who can walk/bike to work!
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DeBaliviere wrote:And really, what is the traffic impact caused by the relatively small influx of new residents? It's not as if Opus is proposing its own version of the Brentwood Promenade at Lindell and Euclid, this is a residential development.
LOL. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the impact this development will have on traffic. If it's that big of a deal, perhaps Maryland Avenue residents should persuade Bank of America to close its drive-through.
Frankly, I can't decide which straw man argument is the weakest- the fear of increased traffic, increased crime, shadows, the building height, or the theory of 'vertical gerrymandering' that was floated in a letter to the editor of the Post-Dispatch.
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How many blocks would really be affected by the construction? Why don't the opposers see that people can go around the construction? WHY? WHY? WHY?
^It's not the construction they are worried about. They seem to be worried about a long term increase in traffic, which I happen to believe is not a bad thing, and not something that is going to happen with only 200 more units.
Its better to have traffic than to be desolate.
These people are going to be living in the CWE and contributing to the community. A community is going to have traffic.
These people are going to be living in the CWE and contributing to the community. A community is going to have traffic.
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Traffic is like cholesterol-- there are bad kinds and good kinds. When a roadway is built as an environment solely for motor vehicles, like an expressway, or a gated environment, like a private place or subdivision street, then and only then, can you ridiculously view any added traffic as a bad kind. But the public streets of the CWE are made for walking, such that traffic supports street-fronting retail, which in turn makes the area even safer for pedestrians and more walkable.
In traffic, there are also two kinds of cycles-- one vicious and one virtuous. In the vicious cycle, our roads allows people to drive more places, activities become more spread out, more people drive, more roads are needed, and people are further discouraged from traveling by any other means than a motor vehicle. But in the virtous cycle, our roads are public spaces allows multiple modes of travel, activities can be mixed, densities increase, fewer people drive, roadway expansion is less necessary, and people have efficient means to walk, bike or take transit.
But clearly, Euclid and Lindell are not expressways or even private streets, but great public streets within a compact, walkable neighborhood, able to act out the virtuous cycle.
In traffic, there are also two kinds of cycles-- one vicious and one virtuous. In the vicious cycle, our roads allows people to drive more places, activities become more spread out, more people drive, more roads are needed, and people are further discouraged from traveling by any other means than a motor vehicle. But in the virtous cycle, our roads are public spaces allows multiple modes of travel, activities can be mixed, densities increase, fewer people drive, roadway expansion is less necessary, and people have efficient means to walk, bike or take transit.
But clearly, Euclid and Lindell are not expressways or even private streets, but great public streets within a compact, walkable neighborhood, able to act out the virtuous cycle.
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PLEASE! THESE WONDERFUL POINTS NEED TO BE STATED PUBLICLY! PLEASE VOICE YOUR COMMENTS IN A LETTER TO THE EDITOR TO THE WEST END WORD!
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A supportive letter to the editor from the West End Word
Follow the numbers - high-rises belong in CWE
To the editor:
Thanks for the article ?Urbanites unite to reframe historical standards debate? in the March 8-14 issue of the Word.
The group St. Louisans for Urban Progress seeks an approach that embraces the historical architecture of the area but also reflects the progressive ethos of the era in which we live.
Lindell at the turn of the century used to be predominantly single-family large homes from Kingshighway to the Cathedral. Soon after there were many mid-rise and high-rise buildings that replaced those homes.
To be specific, the Chase, the St. Regis and the Monticello (all 8 stories), the President (11), the Tramore Castle (15), the Park Royale (16), the Pierre Chouteau (19) and the Park Plaza (27). In the 1960s other buildings were built: Cardinal Ritter (11), Jackson Arms (14), Lindell Terrace (16) and the Town House (23). Lindell is one of the most residential high-rise streets outside of downtown St. Louis and this is not to mention other high-rises and mid-rises close by. All of these buildings express the craftsmanship and style of their times.
At 4545 Lindell Blvd., Conrad Properties is building a mid-rise in an International style contrasting to others on the block, just as the ?60s buildings contrast with those from the ?20s.
Architecture expresses the era of its inception. Are we objecting to that?
The Central West End is now vying with Clayton for high-rise residents for the first time in 50 years. The city of St. Louis needs those residents to continue to grow. Yes, there are certain changes that need to be made to Opus? proposal [for a high-rise at Lindell and Euclid] but let?s not snuff out the opportunity for a continued revitalized, vibrant and ever-changing CWE.
Joe Dubuque,
Central West End
Source
Follow the numbers - high-rises belong in CWE
To the editor:
Thanks for the article ?Urbanites unite to reframe historical standards debate? in the March 8-14 issue of the Word.
The group St. Louisans for Urban Progress seeks an approach that embraces the historical architecture of the area but also reflects the progressive ethos of the era in which we live.
Lindell at the turn of the century used to be predominantly single-family large homes from Kingshighway to the Cathedral. Soon after there were many mid-rise and high-rise buildings that replaced those homes.
To be specific, the Chase, the St. Regis and the Monticello (all 8 stories), the President (11), the Tramore Castle (15), the Park Royale (16), the Pierre Chouteau (19) and the Park Plaza (27). In the 1960s other buildings were built: Cardinal Ritter (11), Jackson Arms (14), Lindell Terrace (16) and the Town House (23). Lindell is one of the most residential high-rise streets outside of downtown St. Louis and this is not to mention other high-rises and mid-rises close by. All of these buildings express the craftsmanship and style of their times.
At 4545 Lindell Blvd., Conrad Properties is building a mid-rise in an International style contrasting to others on the block, just as the ?60s buildings contrast with those from the ?20s.
Architecture expresses the era of its inception. Are we objecting to that?
The Central West End is now vying with Clayton for high-rise residents for the first time in 50 years. The city of St. Louis needs those residents to continue to grow. Yes, there are certain changes that need to be made to Opus? proposal [for a high-rise at Lindell and Euclid] but let?s not snuff out the opportunity for a continued revitalized, vibrant and ever-changing CWE.
Joe Dubuque,
Central West End
Source
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^Great letter. And there are even more highrises too that weren't mentioned (and a few flaws on the ones that were). I really, really hope that more positive letters follow. I want this issue to stay on the forefront of everyones' mind.
Just went to the meeting at the library, and I have to say the new renderings look a ton better than the old ones. I have to commend them for putting half the parking underground. They still have that dang circle drive, but they're probably going to make it right turn only out of there, so that will prevent some major problems. My general sense of the meeting was that there were more people for the development than against, though many wish that the developers weren't so addicted to TIF money. Why not just make them foregoe the TIF and raise the price of each condo slightly? If these places sell so well, why not? It does seem that more attention is being paid to the feel of the building from the sidewalk, but I still have some concerns about it.
The opposition group's flier was funny. It made some reasonable points about parking and infrastructure, which were made partially moot by the redesign, then it strayed off into fantasyland by suggesting that this sets a precedent that could result in the library being torn down and redeveloped.
The opposition group's flier was funny. It made some reasonable points about parking and infrastructure, which were made partially moot by the redesign, then it strayed off into fantasyland by suggesting that this sets a precedent that could result in the library being torn down and redeveloped.
I thought I'd post this before I ran off to the McDonalds Protest:
The Lindell
Project Summary
April 14, 2006
Project: Proposed full-amenity residential condominium to contain 200 +/- units approximately 7500 square feet of first level, Euclid Avenue frontage, retail space and resident (only) parking for 300 cars.
Location: City Of St. Louis (Central West End) at the northeast corner of Euclid Avenue and Lindell Boulevard.
Site Size: 41,210 sq. ft./.095 acres
Building Height: 26 stories above grade, including two levels of below grade parking, a lobby, retail, access level, two levels of above-grade parking, 22 levels of residential units, plus mechanical.
Overall Height to top of decorative structure is approximately 310'. Height of retail at Euclid = 32'; Height of adjacent parking structure = 42'.
Retail: Approximately 7500 sq. ft.
Parking: Approximately 300 spaces to be provided for residents only.
Access: Resident access on Euclid. Service access on Lindell.
Unit Mix/Pricing: Approximately 200 units with a unit mix as follows:
# of Units-----Type of Unit-----Sq. Ft. Range---------Price
-22--------------1 Br/1 b------------886--------------$295,000
-21--------------1 Br/1 b------------955--------------$325,000
-22--------------1 Br/1.5 b/Den----998--------------$340,000
-22--------------1 Br/1.75 b-------1215--------------$400,000
-21--------------2 Br/2 b-----------1240--------------$425,000
-22--------------2 Br/2 b-----------1315--------------$450,000
-22--------------2 Br/2 b-----------1325--------------$465,000
-21--------------2 Br/2 b/Den------1537-------------$525,000
-21--------------2 Br/2.5b/Den-----1897-------------$690,000
--1---------------Penthouse---------2205-------------$825,000
--1---------------Penthouse---------2275-------------$885,000
--1---------------Penthouse---------2500-------------$985,000
--1---------------Penthouse---------2730-----------$1,075,000
Final Square footages may vary due to final design requirements. Additional Penthouse Unites may be created by converting typical floors on upper levels to Penthouse floor(s), dependent on market conditions. Some units may be combined. Prices are average and subject to change.
Overal Average Price - $450,000 +/-. Average Unit Size - 1285 sq. ft.
Building Service: Trash room inside building, access from Lindell. Moving vans enter building for off-loading from Lindell.
Project Cost: $92 million
Project Team: Developer: Opus NWR Developments, LLC
Contractor: Opus NWR Construction, LLC
Design: Built Form LLC; Opus Architects & Engineers, Inc
Sales & Marketing: Maher Partners, LLC
Existing Zoning: "H" Commerical District
Proposed Zoning: Planned Unit Development District
Construction Staging: Sidewalks remain open on Euclid and Lindell. Trusck access for materials and equipment on Lindell. Streets will be dept clear of dirt and debris. On-site representative of Opus will be available for any issues.
TIF Structure: Amount = $7.5 million. New revenues will be shared equally between the TIF and the various taxing districts. TIF projected to be fully paid by 2016. Beginning with the first assessment after completion, annual revenues to the School District and the City of St. Louis are projected to be #396,000 and $142,000, respectively. After completion, annual revenues from other taxes (i.e. earnings, sales, etc) are estimated to be $349,000 for the City and $13,000 for the School District. Over the 23 years of the TIF, the next benefit to the City, School District and other taxing districts is approximately $31 million.
Timeline: Marketing/Production: May - August 2006
Pre-Sale Campaign: Sept - Feb 2007
Site Closing/Construction: March2007
Completion: September 2008
Opus Group: The Opus Gropu of Companies is a $1.4 billion premier full-service real estate development company with more than 50 years experience. Specializing in office, industrial, institutional, retail, multi-family and government construction, the Opus Group has completeled more than 2,200 projects and currently has 24 million square feet in planning or development. Including its office in St. LOuis, Opus has 28 offices throughout the United States and an office in Canada.
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There where better rendering shown at the meeting that I took pictures of, but this is from a flyer.
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Drew,
This is worlds better than the other building. For one, they have moved 2 floors of parking underground. This actually decreases the at grade size of the building by two stories, but it improves the aesthetic by light years. They have changed the resident entry, and the commercial entries, as stated on the info I provided above.
My only issue, is they still have the circle drive. They promised to make the area a right turn only, so that traffic wouldn't be impacted by the circle drive, but it takes away from the pedestrian impact on Lindell. I don't know, it's a much better looking building however, and I can't wait to see it rise.
This is worlds better than the other building. For one, they have moved 2 floors of parking underground. This actually decreases the at grade size of the building by two stories, but it improves the aesthetic by light years. They have changed the resident entry, and the commercial entries, as stated on the info I provided above.
My only issue, is they still have the circle drive. They promised to make the area a right turn only, so that traffic wouldn't be impacted by the circle drive, but it takes away from the pedestrian impact on Lindell. I don't know, it's a much better looking building however, and I can't wait to see it rise.
Fantastic! It seems like they fixed the couple of things I was concerned about, mostly the fake, colonial trim (or whatever it was) around the main entrance and other places. It is no longer overwhelmed by its base. This is a building to be proud of, worthy of it's smart uptown location. Dr. Drew, I am ok with the circle drive, like the Townhouse high-rise apartments down the street or the Executive House, The Montclair, and many other great Central West End buildings. A nice place for a cab to pull up, etc.
Thanks for posting the rendering. I can stop being distracted and checking the computer every fifteen minutes. And Trent, thanks for posting that long list of info. This project is top drawer. I wish they would start building it tomorrow and propose another for the lot across from the library.
Thanks for posting the rendering. I can stop being distracted and checking the computer every fifteen minutes. And Trent, thanks for posting that long list of info. This project is top drawer. I wish they would start building it tomorrow and propose another for the lot across from the library.
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The revised design looks very good. The tower looks perched on a two-story structure. Where did they hide the garage?
Looks great! It wil be cool to see the tower hit 310', a tie with Park Plaza.
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DrDrew wrote:...it strayed off into fantasyland by suggesting that this sets a precedent that could result in the library being torn down and redeveloped.
This is not a joke according to Rollin Stanley. At a Preservation Board meeting, he stated that he wanted a "tower" on each of the four corners of the intersection of Euclid and Lindell and that he wanted the library and garage demolished and replaced within ten years. A boring agenda, but not a bad one.