These people have been there too long to even entertain the idea of a building boom like this. While that is a true question to ask now, I don't think any of these people ever got the idea that this could happen, and they are still trying to deny that the CWE is what it is these days.
Maybe the people that don't like the direction the CWE is moving in should think about moving. After all, they'll probably get twice what their home was worth just five years ago (thanks largely to the development boom that they so much disdain).
Which hole in the sand did these people have their heads in? For nearly thirty years, I've been wondering when the next high rise would be built in the CWE, and I've never even lived there. I'm surprised it took this long! (Oh, there was that 12 story one that was built in the late 70's...early 80's, and the twin thirty story towers that were proposed at the SE corner of Lindell and Kingshighway in the 80's (?)...maybe they're the ones who killed this one)
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^No, the twin tower development fell through because the developer went bankrupt. It would be nice to have those now though!
Thanks for setting me straight on that, Jive. I recall the plans were quite impressive...a shame it fell through.
Most of us can't presume to really understand how these people think. We are obviously a group that is very pro-growth. They, obviously, are not. But we should understand that they are passionate about where they live, albeit slightly misguided. I respect the fact that the CRD have been so passionate about this topic. I just happen to agree with it. We need more people to take an interest in the growth of their city, so we can have this sort of debate on a lot of issues.
On the positive side, because of many of their concerns, we're getting a terrific project out of the deal.
On the positive side, because of many of their concerns, we're getting a terrific project out of the deal.
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In St. Louis how could anyone in their right minds be against growth of the city?
I don't think those people are against growth, I think they think they're idea of status quo for the CWE is a positive thing, which I, you and most others posting here know it is not. IMO, these people are obviously not true urbanites for if they were, they'd welcome the changes. Everyone who is remotely aware of urban lifestyles knows that a healthy, growing city means increased density. You can not increase density without going up, and the more you go up, the more successful a city/neighborhood is. I can't understand how they fail to see this obvious point.
Framer wrote:The West End Word this week printed a letter from some NIMBY who thinks this new tower should be "stopped in its tracks". It will be a "behemouth towering over the CWE", it will "dwarf the Cathedral", it will "lower property values", etc., etc.
They even complain about "preserving building height around Maryland Plaza", apparently unaware that the Park Plaza is 27 stories tall!
Maybe what these player haters are REALLY worried about is real estate taxes. If property values go up all around them, their property taxes will go up as well. The fact that their property is worth more probably doesn't matter since they don't plan to sell. So if all they're getting in exchange for higher property taxes is increased density and maybe a new Jamba Juice on the corner, I can see why they're objecting. I don't agree with them, but I can see where they are coming from. It's just a shame they have to hide behind all these ridiculous arguments though. Just come out and say it--I dont' want to pay more in taxes so you all can have a Jamba Juice!
And what does NIMBY stand for?
Marmar,
It's the old guard. I'm sure this isn't a St. Louis thing. Really, it's about an old guard of people that are reluctant to see things change. It's why my mom can't operate a computer or a VCR.
St. Louis is in a state of flux right now. The leaders have suddenly realized that they can't keep the status quo going, running off the young people after they graduate, and still maintain a strong enough tax base to pay themselves. And now, young people (and those urban minded folk who've been fighting the wind all along) are standing up and making St. Louis fit what they envision is a great place to live.
Those who are losing power are fighting for it. We've still got a huge fight on our hands, but I think the new guard is winning...because our way brings in a lot more money.
It's the old guard. I'm sure this isn't a St. Louis thing. Really, it's about an old guard of people that are reluctant to see things change. It's why my mom can't operate a computer or a VCR.
St. Louis is in a state of flux right now. The leaders have suddenly realized that they can't keep the status quo going, running off the young people after they graduate, and still maintain a strong enough tax base to pay themselves. And now, young people (and those urban minded folk who've been fighting the wind all along) are standing up and making St. Louis fit what they envision is a great place to live.
Those who are losing power are fighting for it. We've still got a huge fight on our hands, but I think the new guard is winning...because our way brings in a lot more money.
m2tbone wrote:I agree with Expat. I am originally from what many of you would probably consider a small town, and we were happy to get any development. Being a NIMBY is not a small town thing........ it's something that happens to be in communities of all sizes.
A couple of years ago in NYC, Mr. Woody Allen qualified as a Nimby when he opposed a large residential tower proposed for his Carnegie Hill super posh quiet residential neighborhood. Obviously, property taxes were not an issue, nor were other economical forces. Only millionaires can afford to live in this neighborhood. No, the objection was to the harmony of Madison Avenue (think boutiques and private schools). It's a gorgeous neighborhood and the proposed tower didn't fit "as is". In the end, the building height was reduced by several stories and they agreed to make the exterior look like everything else on the block. Mind you, what's already on the block is gorgeous so it wasn't a big compromise. The same group also fought the drug store chain Duane Reade over their neon sign and eventually won--think the Seinfeld episode where Kramer gets blinded by the neon light coming from the chicken store. In both these cases, I think these groups HELPED the neighborhood. Unfortunately, when CWE Nimby's argue that a parking lot is better for the neighborhood than a super-duper-good-looking-boy-do-I-want-to-live-there-tower, I just can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. So, maybe we're right about these Nimby's and maybe their motives are less than honorable. But we should respect their right to speak and maybe thank god that people (even people we don't agree with) still have some say in the process. Imagine if Donald Trump decided to take over the CWE. We'd all go blind from all the bling bling. Speaking of gold signs, does anybody else hate the Chase Park PLaza sign outside of the hotel. It belongs at a hotel next to an airport. What an ugly, ugly thing.
when is construction supposed to begin? What is the entry level price?
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As far as I know the construction is slated to start (if it even will start) sometime between early 2007 to Mid 2008. but who does know if the poject even will happen?
^What does that mean? There is no reason to think this project will not be built.
This project is going up. Opus has a lot on their plate with the Park East...
JCity...here's where I posted the specifics: http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?p=30454#30454
Your exact questions answered...starting price is anticipated to be $295K.
Construction anticipated to begin in March of 2007, with completion around Sept of 2008.
JCity...here's where I posted the specifics: http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?p=30454#30454
Your exact questions answered...starting price is anticipated to be $295K.
Construction anticipated to begin in March of 2007, with completion around Sept of 2008.
You are correct.
That is what was sent to me for construction dates by Opus as well.
That is what was sent to me for construction dates by Opus as well.
Doug wrote:
C. Again, alternative lifestyle does not mean they will be sacrificing goats and smoking crack, while engaging in sodomy with a horse.
LOL, are you sure Doug, because that's exactly what I found in the dictionary under Alternative Lifestyle.
Just kidding. Excellent points by the way. After reading that stlouiscitizen post, you'd think they were putting Pops on that corner.
anyone know that status of this? are they going to start once Park East is done?
Gawd you guys...it's just a couple posts higher, and you follow the link with all the info that Opus has provided regarding this project.
Timeline: Marketing/Production: May - August 2006
Pre-Sale Campaign: Sept - Feb 2007
Site Closing/Construction: March2007
Completion: September 2008
trent wrote:Gawd you guys...it's just a couple posts higher, and you follow the link with all the info that Opus has provided regarding this project.
Good grief! Don't know how I missed it.
BTW, go to my topic on 'I-24' in Transportation. I'm going to log out and try again another day....
^
LMAO
Sometimes all you need is a good club over the head (or two) to get the day started.
LMAO
Sometimes all you need is a good club over the head (or two) to get the day started.
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