urbanSTL

soulardx wrote: ↑

Apr 17, 2019

Suppose I just had such higher hopes for this project rather than a food court and movie theater. Particularly with all the tax $.

Too bad they're aren't other phases that will add a lot more to the "food court." Oh, wait...

As far as the musical chairs, you're not wrong, obviously I'm with you there...but companies aren't really moving here from other cities either, outside of many startups that are focusing on Cortex, which is at least nearby. So do we let the old Federal Mogul site (and others) sit and rot and eventually collapse into itself? Or do we try and reuse some of these brownfields and attempt to clean these areas up and change the perception of St. Louis which as Kansas Citian pointed out, sucks. Like really sucks.

I guess it's kind of a chicken or the egg question. Do we toss out some incentives and build and hope the new jobs and residents come (while maybe poaching a few here or there), or do we sit on these properties and do nothing while they fall apart and wait for those jobs and residents to come? IMO the former is probably going to be better than the latter, as the latter only reinforces those negative perceptions. I agree the city needs to modify how it doles out incentives, and there are parts of the Central Corridor where the city needs to cool it, but I also don't think St. Louis has hit a stage yet in development where we're going to attract a lot of non-incentivized development. When we get there, I'll be ready to march on City Hall with my pitchfork. See my opinions on Downtown KC development in the KC thread...that's a city whose downtown has roared back to life, more so than downtown St. Louis, yet the city is still giving away the farm for a lot of it's development, when in my opinion, KC has hit that point where it could start demanding more from developers, yet doesn't do it. It's very frustrating, so I totally see where you're coming from. Just be glad STL doesn't have the really harmful corporate border war that rages between Missouri and Kansas over here...talk about really throwing good money after bad.

As far as Soulard Market, it's been around in some form since 1779. It survived the massive depopulation of the city over the 60 or so years so I doubt the Foundry is really going to effect it all that much.

^ St. Louisans have never been known for their optimism, that's for sure.

And that's OK, I generally take the cynical view myself, but unless Cortex, BJC/WU, SLU, The Armory, Foundry Phase I, Steelcote, and the Grove neighborhood suddenly crash and burn (not likely) I can't see any reason why a second phase here couldn't be successful, whether or not they start in a few months or a few years (barring a market crash of some kind which is always possible I suppose...which is exactly what happened with BPV). They've already begun remediation and demolition for the phase two site.

My belief a phase two is possible doesn't have so much to do with seeing renderings as it does the context of the surrounding area. Time will tell.

Wolfpaw wrote: For all the residents downtown KC boost I don’t find it to be all that robust.   I find downtown St Louis to be far more active for only 9,000 plus residences and I’m not just saying that cause I was born here.  Our downtown was one of the worse in the country when it came to abandonment.  Just think of once railway exchange the former AT&T tower and Jefferson arms could bring once they become repurposed and filled? There’s a lot of work to go but I’ll take downtown St Louis over downtown KC and I love KC, anyways the foundry is what the city of St Louis really needs you have one the midwest most innovative districts along with 2 very good universities 2 hospitals and neighborhoods around that are stabilizing.   This entire area will be a boon to the city when it comes to destination for city residences.  I see this as a plus to everything that’s happening in the city.  Even if a recession isn’t far off St Louis has managed to really move forward in a positive direction. It won’t be the next Nashville it’ll be the next reincarnation of St Louis. I’ll say this though both St Louis and KC can learn from each other’s downtown.  


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I'm pretty much with you on most of this.  I also prefer St. Louis to KC and yes, St. Louis, for lack of a better term, absolutely cleans Kansas City's clock when it comes to universities, hospitals, large corporations, institutions and St. Louis' several innovation districts.  I'd also say St. Louis today already offers much more of an urban experience, the walkability, the architecture, etc than KC does when factoring in the entire urban core.  There isn't much else by way of urbanity outside of the Downtown to Plaza corridor in KC.  But I still feel like KC's Loop and Crossroads areas (which make up the bulk of their downtown) is quite a bit more vibrant than St. Louis' CBD or Downtown West.  Either way, I don't wanna get too far off topic, we can always continue this in the KC thread. 

I think you're absolutely right about the Foundry being a big destination for the city and is certainly a great addition to all the other awesome things happening in St. Louis.

^^ I would say Overland Park is a pretty good competitor, but it's nothing urban like Clayton is.  And while KC doesn't have a big CBD competitor like St. Louis does with Clayton you have the State of Kansas constantly offering incentives to Missouri companies to hop the state line, whether they're downtown or in the Ward Parkway corridor.  And while Downtown and Clayton do compete to an extent, I kinda like having two large districts like St. Louis does.  Feels more big city I guess, especially with the train line between them.  That first picture is great, I've never really seen the Clayton skyline from the perspective.