urbanSTL

This is a bit of an aside, but I do think it's necessary, as this particular topic has gotten more heated than most. (And that's saying something.) Yes, I have an opinion on this. I have concerns. I have worries. I have a position. But I have a fair few people here I count friends on the other side. While I sincerely disagree, I hope that it is always respectful. I value your opinions and trust that you genuinely want our city to succeed. (I honestly think we nearly all do. That is, after all, why we're here.) So while we may (doubtless will) vote differently on a variety of issues, know that I respect your opinions. I don't mean to dismiss them out of hand. I reserve the right to disagree and I hope that by airing our differences we might approach something more closely approximating reality. But in the end, even if we should never come to consensus, I hope to remain friends. And I cannot and will not hold this particular difference against anyone. Even though it be strongly felt.

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Apr 08, 2019

A lot of people are saying that problems with the current merger plan can be fixed piecemeal after the fact: where's the evidence to back that up? BT still leaves a lot of the existing petty tribalism in place. Should BT's plan come to pass, any changes to the governance of the region after the merger would, in my opinion, would be as difficult if not more so than getting the original bill passed. BT wouldn't have the benefit of a state vote for anything after the merger to essentially force the issue, and I can guarantee that the last vestiges of the current setup will go down kicking and screaming in a way I'm not sure the proposed unified government would have the cojones to stamp out. What's to say that a unified STL won't act just as impudently than before it merged? My concern is that the region would continue to stagnate as all the politics and faction warfare comes to a head and bogs the area down in constant infighting as areas formerly of great influence must come to terms with the fact that they're on equal footing with the former lowest of the low.

Don't get me wrong, I still am greatly in favor of a merger, and BT is surely a step in the right direction, but... does their plan do enough to help combat the real issues that have stagnated the region? I'm not sure that it does. I'd prefer a much stronger merger proposal.

Gah. Those governing St. Louis and Missouri in the 1800s really were shortsighted fools, weren't they? If only they'd have chosen the consolidation option back then when they had the choice...

Again, emphasis is on political feasibility. I don't think BT does even a tenth of what should be done, but at least it is a step in the right direction. And it is a step that is endorsed by both City and County executives, and therefore feasible.

Note Terry Jones warned us about City Reentry and the Board of Freeholders in 2011. He says he supports some (timid imo) steps, but he seems consistent that nothing is worth doing:

"Concluding Comments A journey culminating in the City of St. Louis reentering St. Louis County will be neither simple nor speedy. The Board of Electors’ agenda cannot be limited. It could go in multiple directions. Even if it focuses solely on reentry, the Board faces the likely reality that means the County assuming all or most of the City’s county functions and
many of its county-like duties. That, in turn, triggers the thorny issues outlined above. That debate will consume significant civic energy and, for upwards of two years, dominate the community agenda. Public"

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Apr 09, 2019

Seems biased on first glance, but I'm not going to pay to read it, so if someone else would like to dissect it, have at it.

I was hoping to get an unbiased breakdown from some professors without an axe to grind but the three professors in this case are Webster University professor emeritus Jim Brasfield and University of Missouri-St. Louis political science professors E. Terrence Jones and Mark Tranel.

"Brasfield was mayor of Crestwood. E. Terrence Jones has consulted for multiple area cities. Mark Tranel still serves as tax collector in Bellefontaine Neighbors. All three also have connections with CitiesStrong, a nonprofit group advocating collaboration among local governments rather than consolidation. Brasfield was 2017-2018 president of the group. Jones is on the board. Tramel wrote a critical analysis of a 2014 Better Together report for CitiesStrong."

Highlights:

"All told, the merger of St. Louis, St. Louis County and all 88 county municipalities wouldn’t save $1 billion a year, as Better Together estimated, but would instead lead to “tens of millions” of dollars in annual deficits, the report said."

Better Together made these assumptions: "reduced the total budget for nearly all regional governments by 3 percent per year for 10 years, and added back 2 percent for inflation, totaling a 1 percent reduction in expenses annually. Juvers then compared the drop in expenses to that in revenue" and "estimated a 2 percent increase in property taxes per year, a figure it called “standard” and "projected a 1 percent annual sales tax increase, a number it said St. Louis and St. Louis County use in budgeting."

New study says: "A better metric [would be to] increase property tax revenue 1 percent in assessment years and one-half of a percent in nonassessment years" and that "the rise of online sales, the decline of shopping malls and the potential for an economic downturn in the next 15 years, 1 percent was too rosy" as a prediction for increased sales taxes. "In sum, the professors calculated that the new metro government would run a deficit each year of between $25 million and $68 million through 2032."


I don't know how much stock I put in studies that confirm the potential bias of their creators.

Last year Kirkwood hired DPZ to do a study and report on ways to sustain/improve the downtown Kirkwood zone. One thing I liked about their process was that they didn't just give general suggestions for improvements and street by street proposed changes. They took an actual copy of the current Kirkwood zoning laws and provided an edited version that would coincide with their suggested improvements.

I would like to see folks opposed to the Better Together plan take a copy of it and edit it directly to be what they would propose as an alternative. Otherwise, it's just cartoon talk generalities that intentionally or unintentionally will retain the status quo. We can't vote on a complaint. Provide your edited version of the report.

Statewide vote on St. Louis city-county merger gets thumbs down from Missouri Senate

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... ce751.html

It’s starting to be easy to see why so many previous generations of St Louisans have failed to reverse the great divorce of 1876. This generation is headed toward failure too. As a smaller step, should we instead vote to adopt Belmars proposal to only merge St Louis City and County Police forces, leaving other St Louis County town police as they are now?


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^Ouch. 

Seems that Stenger is expected to resign today after his indictment, which I guess will bury this once and for all. I have been a staunch defender of "some small steps that are politically feasible are better than nothing", but have to now admit that nothing is better than something run by a bunch of crooks...

Stenger has resigned. There will be a vote tonight on a new Co. Exec.

What a mess. 

Not sure how Stenger ever got the gig. I am yet to meet a St. Louisan that actually likes him. 

How, if at all, does this impact the efforts of Better Together? I would assume not much, since Stenger will not be the mayor of the “metro city”. However, I’d guess it will not help BT’s cause, if they install a County Executive that strongly opposes any consolidation.

DogtownBnR wrote: How, if at all, does this impact the efforts of Better Together?  I would assume not much, since Stenger will not be the mayor of the “metro city”.  However, I’d guess it will not help BT’s cause, if they install a County Executive that strongly opposes any consolidation.

Still, Stenger was heavily involved with the whole thing until recently. This + the whole NAACP screw up definitely does not help in conveying the impression that BT is run by transparent and honest people.

For me merger is about StL in the future, not current office holders. But I'm in the minority I fear. This certainly doesn't help.

I still support Better Together, but I bet Rex is kicking rocks right now. 

I have a difference of opinion on Stenger's indictment on merger potential. If anything, I could see this being a prime example of how our current government structure can feed into corruption. I think Better Together has a good case to outstate Missouri that Stenger is indicative of the culture of corruption in St. Louis and that the only way to fix it is to blow it up and start from scratch. 

And now Kim Gardner might be going down. 

I'm hoping that the state can be sold on that notion. And while we're at it, the city and the county, too.