urbanSTL

From the article:

"I hate this station, I don't like coming to this station. Why? Because they all congregate here. This is the place to be and hangout and now I know why, they just like to shoot at each other," said the witness.

Yep. EVERYBODY knows this and sees the problem. And yet the authorities don't have the political balls to actually DO something about it. Meanwhile, ridership continues to decline.

Yep, everyone knows Delmar is awful and nobody does anything. That bus stop "across the street" might as well be at the Metrolink Station, as there's only one entrance and you don't have much of an option to avoid it when coming or going from Metrolink.

I've taken to either avoiding the Delmar Loop or walking down to a Blue Line Station along FP Parkway.

The last few times I was at Delmar:

Leaving a concert late, three teens crowding the stairwells so I had to walk within inches of them, no security to be seen.

Leaving on a Saturday night, watching some guy punch and break the glass schedule case, which caused a police officer to show up, but not actually arrest anyone. He was quick enough that he must've been sitting nearby in his car accomplishing nothing, as they frequently are when they're "patrolling" Metro stations.

What about the substation at 5977 Delmar?

eee123 wrote: ↑

Sep 13, 2018

...
Leaving on a Saturday night, watching some guy punch and break the glass schedule case, which caused a police officer to show up, but not actually arrest anyone. He was quick enough that he must've been sitting nearby in his car accomplishing nothing, as they frequently are when they're "patrolling" Metro stations.

Out of curiosity - was it a police officer (city/county PD), or a Metro transit TSO/red badge officer?

Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html

quincunx wrote: ↑

Sep 19, 2018

Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html

Sounds like another product of regional fragmentation.

moltingcicada wrote: ↑

Sep 19, 2018

quincunx wrote: ↑

Sep 19, 2018

Stltoday - Concerned about Metro safety, St. Louis County Council wants to withhold security funds

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 52281.html

Security is bad and Metro and police aren't cooperating, so reduce funds for security as a solution? Someone please help me understand this logic. Is this the most concrete thing St. Louis County Council can come up with?

I think (and I could be totally wrong) that they are using this as a way to force a change of they way things are being policed on/around the metro. I don't think they really have any intention of not funding it, but if they threaten to pull funds maybe it can force everyone to re-evaluate things and find better solutions. If this provides a change for the better, than I am open to seeing what happens (provided they don't actually defund it).

While I see County police on the Metrolink about daily (I ride during rush hour - five-ish) I rarely see any patrols while in the city limits.

I find that while it's nice to see the patrols, they are kind of a waste during peak hours as it's mostly packed with people commuting. The most that I ever witness is an occasional passenger without a ticket, but nothing scarier than that.

Perhaps if they were to pay more attention/patrol more during the off-peak evening times?

jeffrk wrote: ↑

Sep 20, 2018

While I see County police on the Metrolink about daily (I ride during rush hour - five-ish) I rarely see any patrols while in the city limits.

I find that while it's nice to see the patrols, they are kind of a waste during peak hours as it's mostly packed with people commuting. The most that I ever witness is an occasional passenger without a ticket, but nothing scarier than that.

Perhaps if they were to pay more attention/patrol more during the off-peak evening times?

This is spot on. The second-best improvement (beyond more manpower/cops doing what they're paid for) would be to focus on times and areas when crimes happen.

Even the metro PSOs squander dozens of man hours per week watching cards fans use the train outside games. They can't possibly justify focusing on whether Joe cards fan validated his ticket when people are getting shot and robbed.

The Metrolink is so, so different after hours
It goes from quiet and respectful to loud conversations about guns, drugs, and such.

Exactly. Metro largely policies itself during peak periods but for a truly successful system people need to feel comfortable riding it for everyday trips outside of commuting. While I don't have a problem using Metro to run errands, go to dinner, or as a sober ride to bars, convincing my girlfriend to use it is a different story. She (and many others in her demographic) is under the impression that Metrolink goes into a state of lawlessness outside of peak periods. I can't honestly tell her she is wrong.

Something big needs to change. I was watching The Handmaids Tale last night and there was a scene where the main character was riding the train in Boston. The train car they were riding in had three different guards holding automatic weapons just chilling, and I jokingly said that I wished they would do something similar with Metrolink. Clearly we don't need three men with sub-machine guns on each train but how hard would it be to have an officer in each train and an officer at each station at all times?

The only clear solution I can think of is the creation of a separate Metrolink specific police department. I know this is forbidden by the original charter but an amendment would clearly win massive public support. Right now I get the impression that cops assigned to Metrolink duty view it as a punishment of sorts and do not take it seriously while the hired guards have next to no actual jurisdiction. A dedicated police force could change everything and bring accountability back to the policing of Metrolink.

I've asked this qursdtion numerous times over the years. How many stations to have one deputized, well paid officer on each platform? At least? STL County says they have 44 officers assigned to it. How many stations? 20 some odd? How is this so difficult to ***** figure out between three police departments of officers? How are they all still scratching their heads?

The train thing could be an issue since the cars are not connected as I understand.

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Sep 20, 2018

The train thing could be an issue since the cars are not connected as I understand.

I am pretty sure it is only 2 cars though. An officer could just randomly switch back and forth at stations.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Sep 21, 2018

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Sep 20, 2018

The train thing could be an issue since the cars are not connected as I understand.

I am pretty sure it is only 2 cars though. An officer could just randomly switch back and forth at stations.

Yes, just two cars, and they move back and forth already.

Jeff

An idea that I'm sure has come up in the past is closing certain stations during non-peak hours. This could allow Metro to employ the same number of guards while increasing late night frequency without hiring new operators.

For example (based on my loose knowledge of ridership #s and essential bus transfers) after 8 or 9pm we could close UMSL North, Wellston, Sunnen, Forsyth, Big Bend, Cortex, Union Station, Stadium (unless there is a game), Lacledes Landing on the Missouri side.

I'm almost never in favor of reduced service, so I know this isn't ideal, but the system isn't in an ideal situation right now. This is just a larger form of access control. In other words, a holding pattern until larger long term solutions can be brought forward.

addxb2 wrote: An idea that I'm sure has come up in the past is closing certain stations during non-peak hours.

I don't think that's ever come up before.

Post-Dispatch: Make MetroLink safer? Consultants say no to entry barriers, yes to officers on trains over platforms

More police and security presence on MetroLink trains but no entry barriers and ticket-takers at the light rail line's stations.

Those are among the recommendations expected to be made later this year to local officials by a team of consultants studying MetroLink crime and security.

She said her team doesn't believe more police, Metro security officers and contracted security guards are needed.

Instead, she said the security forces need to be better deployed with more riding the trains and probably fewer on the station platforms.

"You have plenty of both," Stuart said in an interview of local police and Metro security personnel assigned to MetroLink. "It's just how they're being used.''

^ and a big "DUH" from everyone with a brain. the real challenge is getting the guards and cops to do their f*cking jobs instead of hiding in utility closets.

stlgasm wrote: Not good.

'Terrifying:' Man shot and killed at MetroLink station after dispute on train

They need to do something about this problem. It could be as simple as adding turnstiles to the entrances or hiring more staff to patrol the platforms, but, if crime keeps happening, people will stop riding it.

Elek.borrelli wrote:

stlgasm wrote: Not good.

'Terrifying:' Man shot and killed at MetroLink station after dispute on train

They need to do something about this problem. It could be as simple as adding turnstiles to the entrances or hiring more staff to patrol the platforms, but, if crime keeps happening, people will stop riding it.

No it’s not as simple as that. A turnstile and police officer at every stop wouldn’t have prevented this. We have a crime problem in our region. PERIOD. It shows on our streets, in our businesses, on our highways, and even on our transit system.

Asking Metro to “stop” this problem is like asking the city to prevent every homicide. Impossible.

stlgasm wrote: I'm all for turnstiles. Every big league transit system has them- they are there for a reason. It's kind of a joke that we're still on the "honor system"- I mean come on, let's get real. this is ST. LOUIS, not Cedar Rapids.  Turnstiles may not have prevented this crime, but they do make it harder for just anyone to access the stations. I understand that turnstiles are expensive to install and maintain, but their value should not be measured from strictly a financial standpoint.  I strongly believe they're worth the investment and essential to establish a sense of security, trust and order.  I mean, let's be real- anyone who rides the train knows that the chances of being asked to show proof of purchase are slim to none. Any regular rider knows this. I can't even count the number of times over the years when I've arrived at the station just as the train was approaching and hopped on without paying so I wouldn't miss it. It's too easy to take advantage of the system. And if you get caught, who cares?  The penalties (or lack thereof) are way too light. 

A very big league transit HEAVY RAIL system has them. Denver, Minneapolis, Seattle, and Salt Lake are also light rail systems run on the "honor system".